Not sure I'm getting why FP+ is "limiting" peoples experience.

[btk2333]

We didn't use fp legacy, we only used fp+. I said I don't like the tiering and disagree. However, based on my experience, even with the tiering, I could still ride everything I wanted by arriving at RD

I agree.

 

[mesaboy2]

We didn't use fp legacy, we only used fp+. I said I don't like the tiering and disagree. However, based on my experience, even with the tiering, I could still ride everything I wanted by arriving at RD

That was always true, and FP+ does nothing nada zippo zilch to enhance that. FP+ now has tiering for all, so not seeing how you can love it if tiering is "stupid".

 

[chris1013]

That was always true, and FP+ does nothing to enhance that. FP+ now has tiering for all, so not seeing how you can love it if tiering is "stupid".

Because I didn't waste time walking to ride A to get fp, then go to ride b and wait in stabdvy, then to ride c to get fp, then back to ride A. I had more time to enjoy the park at a slower pace because my fp q were all planned ahead of time. That was my point. That's what I loved about it. But apparently everyone missed what I was trying to say. Also, just because I don't like one thing about something doesn't mean I hate everything about it.

 

[rt2dz]

What has Disney closed since 2008 that they have not replaced? I found 2008 park maps to check it out

MK
Snow White was replaced by a Princess Meet and Greet/Mine Train Ride to meet-n-greet for little girls is not a ride replacement. I originally pointed that out. It is a ride closure pure and simple.
Dumbo was closed, moved and doubled Expanding a ride that mostly appeals to small children is neither a closure or a replacement.
Toontown meet and greets were closed by replaced by Town Square Mickey and Storybook Circus meets Again, not a ride and small appeal. This is basically a refurbishment.
Tiki Room went "retro" Refurbishment is not adding anything new (again).

EPCOT (FW desperately needs some love now IMO)
Honey I Shrunk the Audience replaced by Captain Eo And, it's about to close according to multiple inside people I know. Nor is it a ride; it's a show. And, again, just basically a retro refurbishment.
Test Track was reimagined Not anything new. A refurbishment. I'm sensing a theme
SSE was reimagined At the risk of repeating myself, refurbishment. Not anything new yet.

DHS (Likely getting a Star Wars land that will appeal to a different age group) On hold. Minor hints at it opening in 1015-2018, as I stated.
Sounds Dangerous gone no big loss IMO Agreed
Star Tours was reimagined Refurb. Not a new experience.
Narnia turned into the new Pirates experience Not a ride and just a refurb. Boy, I feel like I'm my 7yo mocking one of his older brothers.

DAK (getting Avatar in the near future- definitely appeals to a different demographic than the princesses) If it ever happens, it won't be for several more years.
I'm not sure about what's closed here as we don't do any of the animal things.

I always wish Disney would open more rides but I don't think it's accurate to say Disney has "closed a lot" and not replaced the rides.

Here's the deal on rides closed with no replacements (going with all attractions since that is what you did and since I wasn't talking about closings only since 2008--just mentioning that was the last new ride--I'm including all I was talking about):

Magic Kingdom:
Penny Arcade
Main Street Cinema
Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Keel Boats
Sky Way (and yes, I get that you can't replace in same place, but...)
Mickey's House
Minnie's House
Donald's Boat
Circle Vision 360

Epcot:
Kitchen Cabaret
Wonders of Life
Journey into Imagination 2nd floor; (Insider Rumor) Journey into the Imagination will most likely be closed for a long rehab, but never reopen
Many of the street performances have been cut (permanently or just back)

Disney Hollywood Studios:
Cut backs on street performers
Cutback on Studio Backlot Tour

Animal Kingdom:
Pocahontas
Discovery River Boats
Lucky the Dinosaur (although in all fairness, that was temporary)
And, while it shouldn't be a permanent close, we will be missing Lion King for quite some time.


I'm sure there is more, but it is all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[mom2rtk]

how does it defeat the purpose of tiering, if the tiering is still in place?

Without allowing FP+ in a second park I would do DHS and Epcot one day each. At DHS I would choose TSMM and ToT and a worthless FP to be named later. The next day at Epcot I would choose TT and 2 worthless FPs to be named later. Over the course of 2 days I would ride 3 headliners.

If they allowed FP+ in a second park, I would do half a day at DHS and half a day at Epcot ....... twice. First day I would do TSMM and ToT (and maybe a worthless FP to be named later) then hop to Epcot where I could to TT (and maybe 2 worthless FPs to be named later). Second day I would do RnR and ToT then hop to Epcot where I would do Soarin (and maybe 2 worthless FPs to be named later).

That means under the current FP+ system I would get 3 headliners. With hopping I would get 6 headliner spots. Tiering is being used as a way of spreading out the limited number of headliner spots. If I can hop and pick off the best in 2 parks each day, it defeats the purpose of tiering.

 

[surferdave]

No one stopped.

No one tried to help.

Disney was gracious enough to offer us free mickey bars. seriously. ice cream.

my point here is THATS what they're trying to ELIMINATE with FP plus.

You believe that's their motivation? Did they resent giving up those Mickey Bars that much?

 

[Robo]

3 is less than 6.
1 is less than 3.

Cookies or soccer goals or FP's.

When the expectation is to get more...
being held to fewer is a limitation.

If you LIKE limitations, what can I say?

 

[Laketravis]

What Disney is trying to eliminate are long lines at some attractions while other attractions are literally walk-ons. And they are trying to do that without building more attractions.

Because as long as there are other attractions with idle capacity, it only makes sense to the bean counters when that capacity is utilized.

FP+ will be deemed a success when the standby line for Captain EO or Figment or Carousel of Progress is 30 minutes because a 4:1 ratio of have utilized FP+ to reserve their place in line for an attraction that previously never needed a reservation.

Just as airlines have done - you'll be able to reserve your flight, but you will also notice just how full every flight is. And you might have only had a couple of time choices on that particular day as to when you could fly.

Yield Management.

And typically, it only seems great at the beginning (witness the availability of both FP- and FP+ with seemingly unlimited flexibility of FP+ schedulng). As the program is rolled out to more and more users, the capacity and choices available to each user are slowly diminished.

Just like Robo points out, 3 is less than 6.

(Disclaimer: the above is provided for informational purposes only, and is based on a recent visit comprising 17 days of visual and physical FP+ participation. It is in no way an endorsement, critique, expression of like, dislike, hatred, or disdain of any portion of the process in whole or in part. Past performance is not indicative of future results, and the right to change and or adjust the recommendations herein based on any and all adjustments made by external parties is reserved)

 

[AmyB2006]

Honey I Shrunk the Audience replaced by Captain Eo And, it's about to close according to multiple inside people I know. Nor is it a ride; it's a show. And, again, just basically a retro refurbishment.

Thank you Lord, Sweet Baby Jesus!!!! This show was awful the first time it was out, and I can't believe they brought it back (sorry this will probably offend some) just because he died.

Took it away because he was reported as a child molester, brought it back because apparently when you're a dead child molester, it's ok.

 

[Disneylover99]

Every single day of every week all FP's gone within the first few hours of the day for TSMM and Soarin... you think they can't see that's a busted system?

Not a busted system....you just had to wait in line for those two rides if you didn't get there early.

FP was still available for most of the other attractions, even during the late afternoon/early evening.

 

[Disneylover99]

3 is less than 6.
1 is less than 3.

Cookies or soccer goals or FP's.

When the expectation is to get more...
being held to fewer is a limitation.

If you LIKE limitations, what can I say?

It really is that simple.

 

[mesaboy2]

It really is that simple.

Not if you never used more than 3 yourself or one headliner, apparently.

This definitely appears to be a consistent theme among FP+ fans.

 

[Momtomouselover]

Um because you don't get both right now. If you are part of the rollout as a resort guest you do not get a KTTW card to pull legacy.

Yes you do. UNLESS you are staying at Pop or one of the All-Star resorts.

We spent the week before Christmas at Disney. In many ways it was one of our best trips but we also used FP- with our KTTW cards and/or AP's and had FP+. It was also low crowds and if I'm not mistaken our MVMCP did not sell out or at least it didn't feel like it. So, I can't say that I love FP+ because in actuality we weren't limited and further we booked before tiers. I can say it was a little annoying that one of our bands didn't work and we had to wait for reprogramming but then after that it worked as intended. I am happy we had such a great Christmas trip (well minus a day from a stomach bug) but am unsure if I will renew my AP if FP+ remains 3, and tiered. We may still go but only one trip a year and with a different touring plan involved as well as some side trips. Alas, time will tell.

 

[btk2333]

Here's the deal on rides closed with no replacements (going with all attractions since that is what you did and since I wasn't talking about closings only since 2008--just mentioning that was the last new ride--I'm including all I was talking about):

The last ride prior to that was Toy Story midway Mania in May 2008. What did Universal add in that time? A lot! There is no reason disney couldn't have opened more; they've closed a lot. Disney isn't even hinting at anything else until 2015-2018, and Universal (biggest competitor) will add a massive amount of attractions in that time period. Better value.

You did mention May 2008 actually so that's what I based my comparison on.

MK
Snow White was replaced by a Princess Meet and Greet/Mine Train Ride to meet-n-greet for little girls is not a ride replacement. I originally pointed that out. It is a ride closure pure and simple.Snow White is being replaced by the Mine Train- the Meet and Greet just took the place of Snow White- do you really think WDW was going to keep Scary Adventures and a new Snow White ride that close together? If you want things to change, then old things need to go away too
Dumbo was closed, moved and doubled Expanding a ride that mostly appeals to small children is neither a closure or a replacement.No but it does drastically cut down wait times for Dumbo
Toontown meet and greets were closed by replaced by Town Square Mickey and Storybook Circus meets Again, not a ride and small appeal. This is basically a refurbishment.You can't complain about closing Toontown (as you do later in your post) if you don't accept the opening of a new Toontown area as something to be desired
Tiki Room went "retro" Refurbishment is not adding anything new (again).No but it's not a closure

EPCOT (FW desperately needs some love now IMO)
Honey I Shrunk the Audience replaced by Captain Eo And, it's about to close according to multiple inside people I know. Nor is it a ride; it's a show. And, again, just basically a retro refurbishment.
Test Track was reimagined Not anything new. A refurbishment. I'm sensing a themeAgree it's a refurbishment- I'm not a fan of either the new or old version- but the new one is better IMO
SSE was reimagined At the risk of repeating myself, refurbishment. Not anything new yet.Refurbished but totally new soundtrack and new scenes- I consider that a new experience

DHS (Likely getting a Star Wars land that will appeal to a different age group) On hold. Minor hints at it opening in 1015-2018, as I stated.
Sounds Dangerous gone no big loss IMO Agreed
Star Tours was reimagined Refurb. Not a new experience.I don't know how you can call this a refurb- it's a totally new experience- and was desperately needed
Narnia turned into the new Pirates experience Not a ride and just a refurb. Not a refurb- based on a different movie- hard to call that a refurb...
Boy, I feel like I'm my 7yo mocking one of his older brothers.you sound like a 7 year old know it all too

DAK (getting Avatar in the near future- definitely appeals to a different demographic than the princesses) If it ever happens, it won't be for several more years.
I'm not sure about what's closed here as we don't do any of the animal things.

I always wish Disney would open more rides but I don't think it's accurate to say Disney has "closed a lot" and not replaced the rides.

If you really want to go back to 1971 you can do that too but the majority of those rides you mentioned are not exactly "e-tickets". As a matter of fact if they had opened new rides like that you probably would have complained (can you imagine if Disney opened a new Penny Arcade and called it a new attraction?!)

Magic Kingdom:
Penny Arcade Hardly an attraction- can do this at home now
Main Street Cinema Did this actually show movies? again- can do this at home...
Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes I had to look this up- closed in 1994 in the Magic Kingdom... ok if you wish you could ride a canoe I guess I'll give you that one
20,000 Leagues Under the SeaI never rode this either... heard good things
Keel Boatsseriously?
Sky Way (and yes, I get that you can't replace in same place, but...)
Mickey's House
Minnie's House
Donald's BoatI would rather have the new incarnation than the old incarnation of Toontown- you can't complain about the new things they've done and say you want the old things back
Circle Vision 360Talking about timekeeper? they did replace that with MI:LF, I prefer MI, I although I enjoyed both shows

Epcot:Future World needs love I agree
Kitchen Cabaret miss it too- however, wouldn't it be located partially in the Soarin' attraction?
Wonders of Life Very sad- I miss it lots
Journey into Imagination 2nd floor; (Insider Rumor) Journey into the Imagination will most likely be closed for a long rehab, but never reopenMiss it too
Many of the street performances have been cut (permanently or just back)IN all fairness they have added things like F&W and F&G that were not there at park open that are loads of fun

Disney Hollywood Studios:
Cut backs on street performers
Cutback on Studio Backlot TourTrue but I'd choose today's E-ticket combo of TSM, RnRC and ToT over the original MGM studios and just the backlot and GMR anyday of the week

Animal Kingdom:
Pocahontas
Discovery River BoatsYou really like these boat rides don't you?
Lucky the Dinosaur (although in all fairness, that was temporary)
And, while it shouldn't be a permanent close, we will be missing Lion King for quite some time.If you want WDW to build new rides, sometimes things will have to close to be moved around
DAK has also had Everest and Nemo the Musical open that were not opening day attrations (DAK at park opening was horribly boring IMO)

I'm sure there is more, but it is all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Bullseye]

Not if you never used more than 3 yourself or one headliner, apparently.

This definitely appears to be a consistent theme among FP+ fans.

No, no, we get that three is less than six but in the past since we didn't spend the better part the day retrieving and then returning for six or more FP's...it doesn't really matter.

 

[Laketravis]

You left out "If You Had Wings".......

 

[Mad Hattered]

No, no, we get that three is less than six but in the past since we didn't spend the better part the day retrieving and then returning for six or more FP's...it doesn't really matter.

That is the point! It DOES matter to a bunch of people who DID do just that.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I acknowledge that- what frustrates me is when people act like it is the end of the world because Disney has chosen to change the rules of the game- they've changed how FPs worked in the past (when they stopped allowing you to return after your return times for example) and they will change them again- it will simply require minor alterations to figure out how to play the new game that Disney has given us

While I can understand your stance, it is equally frustrating expressing concerns about this and constantly being told "it's a great program, you just do RD or EMH, etc.". The entire reason why this program is a downgrade for us is because we didn't *have* to do those things before in order to be able to get the experiences we wanted. Since RD and EMH aren't as possible in our current situation, it's frustrating constantly being to use them as solutions to the FP rationing.

I also understand the frustration about needing to "burn" your FP+ on attractions for the baby and vice versa- Disney may address this or they may not

See, but the frustration isn't about "burning" FP on baby rides. My frustration is that if we use the FP+ on DD's rides, which tend to have longer lines because of slower loading and smaller capacity, then we are stuck having to be in SB lines for the rides DH and I would like to ride. During peak season, that means DH and I have to spend at least 2 hours with our family separated for us to ride 2 mountains (based on the 60 min waits in mid-morning I've seen for BTMRR and Space this week) - 1 hr for one of us to ride SB on each ride (the other person using rider swap). Since this is supposed to be a *family* vacation, it's frustrating that the rationing of FP+s basically requires us to spend more time apart for DH and I to be able to experience attractions we love as well.

On the flip side, if we use FP on the adult rides, then we're stuck with longer lines for slower loading attractions for DD, which also equates to less rides overall.

I acknowledge that it depends on your touring. We very rarely get more than three legacy FP in a day (the only park that we would would be MK), and when we did it was because we got there at RD.

We rarely got more than 3 at Epcot or DHS also, but MK is where it's most important, and where we spend the most time with DD. We would easily, without any FP runners, get 5-7 FP in a day and be able to accomplish everything we wanted. Since we are usually there on Armed Forces Salute tickets and only have 4 park days, we don't have as much time as those there for 7 days to just go back to the park on a different day.

That's why I hate seeing people talk about postponing or cancelling their trips just because of what we consider to be a minor change.

See, and here's part of the view that frustrates me (and I'm sure others with concerns) - it may be a minor change for *you*. That doesn't mean it is for everyone. People have a right to make that determination for themselves and decide on their vacations accordingly.

 

[Robo]

No, no, we get that three is less than six but in the past since we didn't spend the better part the day retrieving and then returning for six or more FP's...it doesn't really matter.

Complaining about the need to "walk" at WDW is like complaining that swimming would be better if you didn't have to get wet.

 

[patty57]

OT, but here is the thing…while I absolutely agree that this isn't the end of the world, if you don't have kids, you don't get how horrible it is to stand it line for a long time with them. I mean you might *think* you know, but you don't until you actually live it. And trust me, you won't want to be taking twins out to the parks anytime in the next couple of years. Especially if they are boys. Fighting all the time in line is no fun for anyone. Having just one is vastly different from having two at once. You will see how much you miss FP- then, I promise!

Yup.