Not Everyone Is on the Same Boat (EMH)

[jade1]

sometimes things they turn into upcharges were things that used to be available to everyone.

^^^THS. 100% this.

I'm sorry, it should be first come, first serve. You want a good seat? Get there in time and wait for it - just like you have to do with the parades, fireworks etc...

Fantasmic, and also the upcoming ROL

ROL has never been available to everyone.

I am all for them building new things and charging extra for them, and a lot of guests will get to enjoy them at no extra charge.

Same with opening things after hours.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

I like choices.

So I see what is available, then decide if I want to pay for what is offered. Its not hard really.

I agree 100%

I think its a sign of how society has changed. There was a time when people understood that having more money meant having more luxuries, and that was acceptable. The 1% was something to strive for. Now people feel entitled to having the same things because "its not fair" if they don't, and the 1% are practically evil for being able to have what they don't.

It does seem that way. My wife and I saved for years to take our family on our first WDW vacation. Did I feel bitter because other families could go and we could not ? Of course not. WDW has never been cheap. We make several trips to WDW now each year plus do extras like MVMCP, F&W Festival events etc. Years ago we would never of thought to do these extras. I knew that maybe someday we would be in a position to do them. We recently celebrated our anniversary at Victoria & Albert's. Did it cost a lot of $$$$$, of course it did. I know most of the people out there could not afford this and we were in the same boat once upon a time.

 

[Kimberly9701]

In percentages, the 'rich' donate lesser amounts of their incomes than middle class folks and those who would be considered poor.

But who cares? The point is- the "rich" typically are philanthropists, which is beneficial to all.
The United States of America has the highest amount of non government funded charities than any other country in the world. Why? Because of the "rich".

My son attends a private school. My property taxes pay toward the public school district that we live in. Said taxes get raised when those schools need a new gym/classroom equipment etc. Do I get a tax write off for this? Nope. Even though my family will never utilize any of those things that my taxes are paying for.

Also, I work my tush off to get where I am in life. Does that mean I owe someone who is not in my same position? Does it mean I should be jealous of those that are doing better financially than I am, even though I feel like I'm doing as much as I can? NO to both.

Should I be able to purchase something that provides more convenience or in my mind a better experience if I'm willing to pay for it? Absolutely, and I just can't subscribe to the theory that it's hurting others by me doing so.

 

[DopeyDame]

But who cares? The point is- the "rich" typically are philanthropists, which is beneficial to all.
The United States of America has the highest amount of non government funded charities than any other country in the world. Why? Because of the "rich".

My son attends a private school. My property taxes pay toward the public school district that we live in. Said taxes get raised when those schools need a new gym/classroom equipment etc. Do I get a tax write off for this? Nope. Even though my family will never utilize any of those things that my taxes are paying for.

Also, I work my tush off to get where I am in life. Does that mean I owe someone who is not in my same position? Does it mean I should be jealous of those that are doing better financially than I am, even though I feel like I'm doing as much as I can? NO to both.

Should I be able to purchase something that provides more convenience or in my mind a better experience if I'm willing to pay for it? Absolutely, and I just can't subscribe to the theory that it's hurting others by me doing so.

Do you have any sources for the bolded? Because I've heard other people say that, and in the research I've done I haven't found anything to back that up. Stats are, for many reasons, REALLY hard to come by for something like that, and for those that are available, the US isn't at the top.

 

[Kimberly9701]

Do you have any sources for the bolded? Because I've heard other people say that, and in the research I've done I haven't found anything to back that up. Stats are, for many reasons, REALLY hard to come by for something like that, and for those that are available, the US isn't at the top.

Every year Forbes comes out with an article on the top 50 donors. If you subscribe to Forbes take a look it's quite an interesting article. But no, those aren't the only private donors, and not the only source.

 

[MariMama]

But who cares? The point is- the "rich" typically are philanthropists, which is beneficial to all.
The United States of America has the highest amount of non government funded charities than any other country in the world. Why? Because of the "rich".

My son attends a private school. My property taxes pay toward the public school district that we live in. Said taxes get raised when those schools need a new gym/classroom equipment etc. Do I get a tax write off for this? Nope. Even though my family will never utilize any of those things that my taxes are paying for.

Also, I work my tush off to get where I am in life. Does that mean I owe someone who is not in my same position? Does it mean I should be jealous of those that are doing better financially than I am, even though I feel like I'm doing as much as I can? NO to both.

Should I be able to purchase something that provides more convenience or in my mind a better experience if I'm willing to pay for it? Absolutely, and I just can't subscribe to the theory that it's hurting others by me doing so.

I'm not sure why you're taking this topic so personally. It isn't about you.

I have never believed in trickle down economics. It has been proven repeatedly it doesn't work. So I'm not quite sure what you're arguing.

As far as working your tush off, do you think those that make less than you aren't working their tushes off, too?

 

[DopeyDame]

Every year Forbes comes out with an article on the top 50 donors. If you subscribe to Forbes take a look it's quite an interesting article. But no, those aren't the only private donors, and not the only source.

I just looked up "Forbes top 50 donors" - what came up is a list called "America's 50 Top Givers" So that still doesn't say anything about USA having the highest amount of non-government funded charities, and definitely doesn't make a statement of the percentage of money rich give in America vs. anywhere else.

 

[ArwenMarie]

ROL has never been available to everyone.

I am all for them building new things and charging extra for them, and a lot of guests will get to enjoy them at no extra charge.

Same with opening things after hours.

Eh, I'm not sure about that distinction. The nighttime shows at WDW have always been available to everyone with a park ticket. Technically, RoL is new, but it's not a new concept. It's a park entertainment event. I don't have a problem with dining packages necessarily as long as they aren't a majority of the seats. It remains to be seen how many of the seats go to dining packages.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My son attends a private school. My property taxes pay toward the public school district that we live in. Said taxes get raised when those schools need a new gym/classroom equipment etc. Do I get a tax write off for this? Nope. Even though my family will never utilize any of those things that my taxes are paying for.

In all fairness why should someone get a tax write off on a choice such as private vs public school? They are run entirely different and depend on different resources to continue to (or attempt to) provide resources to those utilizing those services.

Just as an example I pay a several hundred dollars each year on my property tax (well actually this year will be the last since it was a 15 year set charge and I was lucky to only have to be charged for 2 years worth) for a fund that will be used at some point in the future to widen the main road going into my neighborhood and install round abouts.

1) Other neighborhoods use that street to get to their as a faster way but do not pay the tax amount at all
2) The amount you pay on your taxes depends on how close your house is to that main road therefore I am paying approx half as much as those whose homes border the road but I still use the road every day.

I hope those who are closer to the road don't begrudge me for living farther away and not paying as much but I certaintly don't begrudge those who use the main road (increasing the traffic and wear and tear on the road) and yet don't pay for it as they are not in the neighborhood or those who are even farther away from the main road as I am thus they are paying less than me.

 

[Kimberly9701]

I'm not sure why you're taking this topic so personally. It isn't about you.

I have never believed in trickle down economics. It has been proven repeatedly it doesn't work. So I'm not quite sure what you're arguing.

As far as working your tush off, do you think those that make less than you aren't working their tushes off, too?

I'm not just taking it personally, it's just that hearing/seeing entitled attitude after entitled attitude is getting so tiresome. I don't know why it is so prevalent right now. But it is. Not just on these boards, it's everywhere.

And to keep reading people say "my family doesn't want to spend money on this, therefore no one should get it and a company shouldn't offer another option"! That is directly personal to all of us who see value in and benefit from the options provided.

There are ALL types of people, and all types of WDW travelers. Disney provides so many options that no one could do them all, some may do one, some may do a few, but one could choose to do none and still have a wonderful vacation.

As for the 'working hard' part, no I don't think someone with less doesn't work as hard as me. Which is why I also stated that I am not jealous of those who have more money than me, even though I am working as hard as I can. What I do know is this, I have and do sacrifice a lot for what I have and I think that when on vacation that I do deserve to have 'special experiences' if I want them. And so does anyone who also chooses to spend THEIR money on anything 'extra'. These people aren't taking your food, they aren't preventing you from seeing a show. They aren't harming you at all. And you can not fault a business for knowing that there is a segment of the market who will pay for these things, and generating profit from it.

 

[eyehartdisney]

Thanks for the recommendation! I'm guessing it's one of the "Discworld" novels, right?

Yes it was, in fact it was the last discworld book he wrote. I think it doesn't have the same feel to it that most discworld books do, and people have said it's a swan song, but I felt like the pacing matched the feel of the unending urgency of progress. I felt it fit the story. I have been going through the book and trying to find the quote by Moist, but I can't seem to find it. Essentially it was something like "Let them dream. Let them get a whiff of luxury, and press their noses to the glass of first class. Let the young man spend the extra silver to buy the middle class ticket to impress his lady, let them strive to be more, to do better, to work harder." I loved that speech, and I'm a bit disappointed I can't seem to find it.

 

[Kimberly9701]

In all fairness why should someone get a tax write off on a choice such as private vs public school? They are run entirely different and depend on different resources to continue to (or attempt to) provide resources to those utilizing those services.

Just as an example I pay a several hundred dollars each year on my property tax (well actually this year will be the last since it was a 15 year set charge and I was lucky to only have to be charged for 2 years worth) for a fund that will be used at some point in the future to widen the main road going into my neighborhood and install round abouts.

1) Other neighborhoods use that street to get to their as a faster way but do not pay the tax amount at all
2) The amount you pay on your taxes depends on how close your house is to that main road therefore I am paying approx half as much as those whose homes border the road but I still use the road every day.

I hope those who are closer to the road don't begrudge me for living farther away and not paying as much but I certaintly don't begrudge those who use the main road (increasing the traffic and wear and tear on the road) and yet don't pay for it as they are not in the neighborhood or those who are even farther away from the main road as I am thus they are paying less than me.

The difference is- I am saving the school district money by not sending my son there, as well as providing additional funds. In your scenario you are also using the roads, creating additional wear and tear.
I don't need a tax write off (but wouldn't complain if I got one ). And I'm not going to debate public vs private. I want the public schools to do well. I was just giving an example of things that people may pay for that are beneficial to others, and in the very least money that other people choose to spend that is not at all harming someone else. Once again- having options in life.

 

[MariMama]

The difference is- I am saving the school district money by not sending my son there, as well as providing additional funds. In your scenario you are also using the roads, creating additional wear and tear.
I don't need a tax write off (but wouldn't complain if I got one ). And I'm not going to debate public vs private. I want the public schools to do well. I was just giving an example of things that people may pay for that are beneficial to others, and in the very least money that other people choose to spend that is not at all harming someone else. Once again- having options in life.

You're costing the school district money by not sending your son there, so consider your taxes a way to make up for that lost money.

 

[jade1]

Eh, I'm not sure about that distinction. The nighttime shows at WDW have always been available to everyone with a park ticket. Technically, RoL is new, but it's not a new concept. It's a park entertainment event. I don't have a problem with dining packages necessarily as long as they aren't a majority of the seats. It remains to be seen how many of the seats go to dining packages.

Well it is a fact that ROL has never been available to everyone, AK has never even had a night show. The other parks indeed have though so I get your point.

But you are choosing "majority of seats" out of the blue. There is a lot of standing room around the lagoon as well.

I have no problem with "paying" guests supporting the free seats and standing areas for shows (even attractions) for expansions.

In other words, I will take ROL if it means majority of seats are paid, compared to no ROL at all, if that's the route they choose. By a landslide.

I would even support Avatar attractions as half SB, and half "paid" FP+ or packages of some kind.

 

[Skywise]

In percentages, the 'rich' donate lesser amounts of their incomes than middle class folks and those who would be considered poor.

Do you have any source for this?

 

[MariMama]

I'm not just taking it personally, it's just that hearing/seeing entitled attitude after entitled attitude is getting so tiresome. I don't know why it is so prevalent right now. But it is. Not just on these boards, it's everywhere.

And to keep reading people say "my family doesn't want to spend money on this, therefore no one should get it and a company shouldn't offer another option"! That is directly personal to all of us who see value in and benefit from the options provided.

There are ALL types of people, and all types of WDW travelers. Disney provides so many options that no one could do them all, some may do one, some may do a few, but one could choose to do none and still have a wonderful vacation.

As for the 'working hard' part, no I don't think someone with less doesn't work as hard as me. Which is why I also stated that I am not jealous of those who have more money than me, even though I am working as hard as I can. What I do know is this, I have and do sacrifice a lot for what I have and I think that when on vacation that I do deserve to have 'special experiences' if I want them. And so does anyone who also chooses to spend THEIR money on anything 'extra'. These people aren't taking your food, they aren't preventing you from seeing a show. They aren't harming you at all. And you can not fault a business for knowing that there is a segment of the market who will pay for these things, and generating profit from it.

What people have issues with are things that used to be free with admission are being turned into upcharge events. I think that is the main point most people are arguing.

I think you are doing a lot of assuming about people's incomes on this board. I get the impression you think people don't like these upcharge events because they can't afford them. Most people online are tactful enough not to talk about their socioeconomic status.

 

[Skywise]

You're costing the school district money by not sending your son there, so consider your taxes a way to make up for that lost money.

No, she's not. Why should the school get the same amount of money as other schools if they have less students? The tax dollars the government collects from her are trickled down to the schools who need it the most.

 

[SaintsManiac]

The difference is- I am saving the school district money by not sending my son there, as well as providing additional funds. In your scenario you are also using the roads, creating additional wear and tear.
I don't need a tax write off (but wouldn't complain if I got one ). And I'm not going to debate public vs private. I want the public schools to do well. I was just giving an example of things that people may pay for that are beneficial to others, and in the very least money that other people choose to spend that is not at all harming someone else. Once again- having options in life.

You're actually not saving them money. Also, this is how society works. We pay taxes to have emergency response, too and I hope to god I never need them.

 

[Skywise]

BTW, I'm not sure why this thread is STILL in the the theme parks strategies and attractions forum and not general discussion as it never pertained to theme park attractions and strategies and is wholly political in nature.

 

[Kimberly9701]

You're costing the school district money by not sending your son there, so consider your taxes a way to make up for that lost money.

WHAT?! How do you even figure that? Do you know the cost per student? And what the state gives the school? There is a HUGE gap there.

So let's say there are 2000 (just using a round number) kids in private school in my area k-12.
Now- take those 2000 kids and put them in the local public school. No additional tax revenue is generated, but yes a small number of state funds will be picked up... HOW is that public school going to absorb that and maintain such a high rating? How many more teachers do they need to hire? How many more classrooms will need to be built? How high will our taxes go as a result?

Come on.