Not educating child

[bigredbill]

I have an issue with one of my wife's former friends, who also used to be our nanny. I say "former", as my wife has little contact with her now. She had brought such drama and poor influence into our household, we decided our family was better off without her.

However, I still have a major concern with her. She took her (then) 13 year old daughter out of school last year to "home school" her. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue -- I respect the decisions of families that are doing what they feel is best for the education of their children. The concern I have is that she doesn't educate her daughter at all. Instead, she uses her as a babysitter for their one-year old.

We had utilized the mom as a nanny over the summer, but let her go when she told us that she would not be putting her daughter in school again. In fact, she wanted to be able to leave her nanny responsibilities in the early afternoon, and have her daughter finish up watching our kids each day. We told her that we couldn't do that, didn't feel that what she was doing to her child was right, and that we'd need to find a new nanny.

We recently found out from the daughter that no home schooling has taken place this fall, and that she is primarily responsible for taking care of her younger brother. My wife has had multiple discussions with the mother in the past, trying to advocate for the daughter, to no use. We have been essentially told to "butt out".

After a great deal of thought and prayer, my wife contacted Child Protective Services and filed a complaint. Do you think we overstepped our bounds?

 

[Christopher Robin]

Do you think we overstepped our bounds?

Yes.

 

[bigredbill]

Christopher, what would you have done differently? Do you not feel it is right to advocate for a child?

 

[Christopher Robin]

Christopher, what would you have done differently? Do you not feel it is right to advocate for a child?

Two different questions.
1) Mind my own business.
2) Yes, when it's my business.

 

[Sneezie]

I think you did the right thing and I commend you for your courage in taking a stand for this child's well being.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I have an issue with one of my wife's former friends, who also used to be our nanny. I say "former", as my wife has little contact with her now. She had brought such drama and poor influence into our household, we decided our family was better off without her.

However, I still have a major concern with her. She took her (then) 13 year old daughter out of school last year to "home school" her. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue -- I respect the decisions of families that are doing what they feel is best for the education of their children. The concern I have is that she doesn't educate her daughter at all. Instead, she uses her as a babysitter for their one-year old.

We had utilized the mom as a nanny over the summer, but let her go when she told us that she would not be putting her daughter in school again. In fact, she wanted to be able to leave her nanny responsibilities in the early afternoon, and have her daughter finish up watching our kids each day. We told her that we couldn't do that, didn't feel that what she was doing to her child was right, and that we'd need to find a new nanny.

We recently found out from the daughter that no home schooling has taken place this fall, and that she is primarily responsible for taking care of her younger brother. My wife has had multiple discussions with the mother in the past, trying to advocate for the daughter, to no use. We have been essentially told to "butt out".

After a great deal of thought and prayer, my wife contacted Child Protective Services and filed a complaint. Do you think we overstepped our bounds?

Maybe she's unschooling.

Calling CPS was overstepping.

 

[golfgal]

I know of someone in a similar situation and I called CPS as well. When the kids have no way to defend themselves, what else can you do? It is your business because like it or not, if this child doesn't get an education, she will be on welfare at some time and you will be paying for that.

The problem lies in state laws. Most states have no accountability for parents that homeschool. Sure, they have to turn in grades, but they don't have to PROVE those grades, which is probably what this mom is doing. Of course her darling is a straight A student now I am sure. If your state has no oversight, there isn't much CPS can do, unfortunately.

 

[bigredbill]

Maybe she's unschooling.

Calling CPS was overstepping.

She's not unschooling. She is lazy. She doesn't want to take care of her son by herself during the day while her husband is at work.

 

[Coconut36]

Yes you probably overstepped. You are not this child's parent and you might not be getting the full picture from the kid.

In Arizona you can "drop out" at 16 legally..in other states the age may be lower or higher so it might be entirely legal for her parent to remove her from school.

What are the laws in your state regarding education and schooling? Is the parent required to bring the child in for yearly testing or anything like that?

Taking children out of school to homeschooling them and not doing it is a pet peeve of mine...I grew up with a friend pulled from school in 1st grade to be "homeschooled" (what the parent did is what many call "unschooling" now) and she got ZERO education. Seriously we were about the same age and when I lost touch with her around high school age she could not read/write above a 1st grade level at that point. It bothers me that people do this kind of thing but there were no laws that covered this..they did not have to go in for testing or anything like that.

There was nothing CPS could have or would have done and I will be surprised if they do anything in your case either..to me CPS honestly has far more serious matters to focus on than this..I would rather they help the kid being beaten or starved personally but I get that your heart was the in the right place.

Does your state have a program like this? http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/JuvenileProbation/Probation/CUTS.asp

This focuses on truancy but basically taking a kid out of school long term like the parent seems to be doing could be viewed as a form of truancy so it might be worth looking into what your state laws and programs are regarding attendance and age for school.

My biggest issue is that you called CPS..something very serious IMO based on the word of a 13ish year old? Yeah that is a big concern to me..kids lie, exaggerate and manipulate the facts to try to suit their needs and purposes..I don't believe it is good or appropriate to call in serious authorities over some statements from a kid. I would need more details and actual verification of what is going on before I considered calling the police.

 

[worm761]

I think a better option would have been to call the school district. They are the ones in charge of homeschooling.
I think calling CPS was too much because you just don't know what is going on. You got your information from a kid. Now, we homeschool sort of. DS is 15 and attends a virtual school. They have a set amount of work that has to be done each week. It is divided up by the day. He is currently done with his online school work for the rest of the day except for a phone call he has to make later. Now, he is watching my one year old so I can work. I work at home on the computer. I pay him to watch her while my fiance is at work so I can get a head start and not work late into the night. To an outsider, my home looks much like you described. I would hate to have CPS called on me because someone doesn't like my parenting choices.

 

[kamik86]

I know of someone in a similar situation and I called CPS as well. When the kids have no way to defend themselves, what else can you do? It is your business because like it or not, if this child doesn't get an education, she will be on welfare at some time and you will be paying for that.

The problem lies in state laws. Most states have no accountability for parents that homeschool. Sure, they have to turn in grades, but they don't have to PROVE those grades, which is probably what this mom is doing. Of course her darling is a straight A student now I am sure. If your state has no oversight, there isn't much CPS can do, unfortunately.

I agree. I would have felt I had to call CPS. Mom is totally ruining this child's future. How is this girl supposed to be able to accomplish anything if she isn't educated beyond what... 6th grade. Even GRE classes when she turns 18 might be beyond her since she didn't even finish middle school.

There is a law that all children attend school, there are truancy laws against parents if children dont go and yet all they have to do to get out of this is decide to home school in some states. (This is not against those that home school I know many do great jobs educating their children but you must admit there is a huge loop hole here, unfortunately there is really no way to close it that wouldn't also involve stepping on the toes of those good home schooling parents.)

 

[Pigeon]

Of course you were overstepping. If you had evidence she wasn't feeding her child or was hitting her child or something similar, call CPS.

But who made you the homeschooling police?

 

[zurgswife]

We have a number of families that unschooled around me and all I can say is I think that the might have been better off if someone did call CPS. I realize children can go no where even with schooling but this particular family non of there children really do anything. On was in my dd's class and is an adult now and floats around getting jobs here or there. There was another in my ds's class and is now 18. Everyday during HS I would just see her wandering around town waiting for the other kids to get out. She doesn't have a job yet or going to school..

It just seems that these 3 kids were destine to a life of no where jobs because their parents decided that unschooling was the proper path. I'm sure there are very few kids out there in 6,7,8th grades would not want to stay home and hang.

I think you did the right thing. Might anything come of it probably not but at least you tried.

 

[disneyjunkie]

She's not unschooling. She is lazy. She doesn't want to take care of her son by herself during the day while her husband is at work.

Sounds like unschooling to me.

What about her husband? What is his take on all of this?

 

[princessmom29]

I am glad you had the courage to call. IF they are donig nothing wrong, then CPS will investigate and then leave them alone.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

Calling CPS was pretty darned drastic, IMHO.

I thought that homeschoolers had to take state issued tests proctored by someone other than their parents at least once a year. Is that correct?

If the home-schooled students do have to take such tests, then yes - you overstepped drastically as the truth would come out pretty soon. Once the DD wasn't testing up to standards for her grade level, she'd wind up back in the public school system within a year and mom would have been taken to task for lying about homeschooling.

If there really is no mandate towards proving grades for home-schooled students, I probably would have contacted the school district or state board of education before calling CPS.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Of course you were overstepping. If you had evidence she wasn't feeding her child or was hitting her child or something similar, call CPS.

But who made you the homeschooling police?

These are my thoughts except for the last question.

I would have called the school board if you are concerned for this girl's education and found the proper way to report this.

I think of CPS as an EMERGENCY type thing...if a child is being beaten...not fed...that kind of thing.

But I'm sure you mean well.

 

[Coconut36]

Calling CPS was pretty darned drastic, IMHO.

I thought that homeschoolers had to take state issued tests proctored by someone other than their parents at least once a year. Is that correct?
.

Totally depends on the state. The oversight for homeschoolers varies greatly..here for example my homeschooled friend did NOT have to take any tests. It is not required here and frankly even if it was it would be difficult to reinforce.

 

[golfgal]

Calling CPS was pretty darned drastic, IMHO.

I thought that homeschoolers had to take state issued tests proctored by someone other than their parents at least once a year. Is that correct?

If the home-schooled students do have to take such tests, then yes - you overstepped drastically as the truth would come out pretty soon. Once the DD wasn't testing up to standards for her grade level, she'd wind up back in the public school system within a year and mom would have been taken to task for lying about homeschooling.

If there really is no mandate towards proving grades for home-schooled students, I probably would have contacted the school district or state board of education before calling CPS.

Nope...not the case in most states...would make sense but don't EVER suggest that to homeschoolers--counting down 10, 9, 8...before I get blasted by a homeschooler about this....

 

[princessmom29]

Of course you were overstepping. If you had evidence she wasn't feeding her child or was hitting her child or something similar, call CPS.

But who made you the homeschooling police?

So not providing any form of education is NOT a form of abuse?