Not a pleasant topic but is anyone concerned about recent events in Europe and safety?

[cruiser21]

Actually that's not what the poster asked at all. But you definitely took it there.

I apologize if I misinterpreted her post. It happens. The original poster "liked" my explanation so I figured she understood what I was trying to say, and that's all that really matters even if it originally came out wrong.

 

[lorenni]

I apologize if I misinterpreted her post. It happens. The original poster "liked" my explanation so I figured she understood what I was trying to say, and that's all that really matters even if it originally came out wrong.

Whitesplaining - google it.

Poster said she was worried about anti-immigrant sentiment and harassment because her husband and children are not white.

You responded by essentially pronouncing that there are lots of Muslims (which to you = diversity) and therefor no racism or anti-immigrant sentiment.

How you present your thoughts does actually matter. Your choice of language made it appear as though you were conflating entire subcontinents of people. Indian immigrants have been shot and killed in the US recently because some nutjob assumed they were Muslim. The idea that everyone from any country or region shares the same religion? Or the whole brown is brown is brown idiocy that persists? These failures need to be commented upon and brought to light wherever they show up. Including the DIS.

 

[quickcat]

Whitesplaining - google it.

Poster said she was worried about anti-immigrant sentiment and harassment because her husband and children are not white.

You responded by essentially pronouncing that there are lots of Muslims (which to you = diversity) and therefor no racism or anti-immigrant sentiment.

How you present your thoughts does actually matter. Your choice of language made it appear as though you were conflating entire subcontinents of people. Indian immigrants have been shot and killed in the US recently because some nutjob assumed they were Muslim. The idea that everyone from any country or region shares the same religion? Or the whole brown is brown is brown idiocy that persists? These failures need to be commented upon and brought to light wherever they show up. Including the DIS.

Exactly, how you present your thoughts does matter. Calling the previous poster out for whitesplaining is just more labeling and name calling.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Pulse wasn't a terrorist attack, though..

Huh? How was Pulse NOT a terrorist attack? He may have been a lone wolf but there's no question that the attack was terrorism.

 

[RedSox68]

Huh? How was Pulse NOT a terrorist attack? He may have been a lone wolf but there's no question that the attack was terrorism.

Totally agree. Lone wolf or not, the man had issues! Since Pulse was considered a gay nightclub, I think the attacker's message was very clear:

Terrorism is a term used in its broadest sense to describe the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror or fear, in order to achieve a political, religious or ideological aim.

 

[cruiser21]

Whitesplaining - google it.

Poster said she was worried about anti-immigrant sentiment and harassment because her husband and children are not white.

You responded by essentially pronouncing that there are lots of Muslims (which to you = diversity) and therefor no racism or anti-immigrant sentiment.

How you present your thoughts does actually matter. Your choice of language made it appear as though you were conflating entire subcontinents of people. Indian immigrants have been shot and killed in the US recently because some nutjob assumed they were Muslim. The idea that everyone from any country or region shares the same religion? Or the whole brown is brown is brown idiocy that persists? These failures need to be commented upon and brought to light wherever they show up. Including the DIS.

I apologized. Explained myself. So just move on. You've commented over and over that you didn't like my post. You don't need to beat it to death. You're making a lot of assumptions about me based on a couple on sentences I wrote on a cruise board. You don't know me enough to label me as anything. Time to move on.

 

[cruiser21]

Huh? How was Pulse NOT a terrorist attack? He may have been a lone wolf but there's no question that the attack was terrorism.

Terror attacks sometimes target different groups jews, christians, gays etc. that's where the "hate crime" label comes in. I consider this a terrorist attack because of who was responsible for it. If it was some random guy with no ties to Islamic terrorism it would be more of a hate crime in my opinion.

 

[Madame]

Honestly, some of the attitudes in this thread is why I will not be visiting the US for the foreseeable future (except perhaps Hawaii; lots to like about that state recently).

We've rented out all our 2017-2018 DVC points already. Yes, I know, we don't need you anyway, blah, blah, blah.

I do not want my children (who attend a very multicultural school here in Canada) exposed to this garbage.

We *are* going to Europe in 2018. Happy cruising everyone.

 

[RedSox68]

Honestly, some of the attitudes in this thread is why I will not be visiting the US for the foreseeable future (except perhaps Hawaii; lots to like about that state recently).

We've rented out all our 2017-2018 DVC points already. Yes, I know, we don't need you anyway, blah, blah, blah.

I do not want my children (who attend a very multicultural school here in Canada) exposed to this garbage.

We *are* going to Europe in 2018. Happy cruising everyone.

Honestly, some of the comments on this thread do not reflect the rest of us in the good ole USA. Not a great or smart way to judge a country and what it has to offer visitors just based on a few comments on a community thread!!

 

[cruiser21]

Honestly, some of the attitudes in this thread is why I will not be visiting the US for the foreseeable future (except perhaps Hawaii; lots to like about that state recently).

We've rented out all our 2017-2018 DVC points already. Yes, I know, we don't need you anyway, blah, blah, blah.

I do not want my children (who attend a very multicultural school here in Canada) exposed to this garbage.

We *are* going to Europe in 2018. Happy cruising everyone.

You do realize most of our kids attend multicultural schools too. I don't think you have to worry about your kids being exposed to anything here except a bunch of very nice people. I don't know what your personal beliefs are any topic, but I would imagine any country you travel too you're going to find opposing views.

 

[Madame]

Honestly, some of the comments on this thread do not reflect the rest of us in the good ole USA. Not a great or smart way to judge a country and what it has to offer visitors just based on a few comments on a community thread!!

Let's just say that I feel that the genie has been taken out of the bottle. People seem to be 'telling it like it is' in the US - whatever that means.

In no way do I judge all Americans by the mean-spirited, bigoted trash I see daily on the Internet, but these people seem to have been green-lit. This seems to have become acceptable somehow.

I avoid people like this in my own country like the plague. I will *not* visit a country that has put one in charge. Have a nice day (sincerely, no snark here - we miss Disney & the US in general especially living in a border city, but it is what it is).

 

[RedSox68]

Let's just say that I feel that the genie has been taken out of the bottle. People seem to be 'telling it like it is' in the US - whatever that means.

In no way do I judge all Americans by the mean-spirited, bigoted trash I see daily on the Internet, but these people seem to have been green-lit. This seems to have become acceptable somehow.

I avoid people like this in my own country like the plague. I will *not* visit a country that has put one in charge. Have a nice day (sincerely, no snark here - we miss Disney & the US in general especially living in a border city, but it is what it is).

If we all had the attitude of not visiting a country because we don't like their leader(s), we'd all be missing out on a lot of culture and history!

 

[Westcoastwild]

Let's just say that I feel that the genie has been taken out of the bottle. People seem to be 'telling it like it is' in the US - whatever that means.

In no way do I judge all Americans by the mean-spirited, bigoted trash I see daily on the Internet, but these people seem to have been green-lit. This seems to have become acceptable somehow.

I avoid people like this in my own country like the plague. I will *not* visit a country that has put one in charge. Have a nice day (sincerely, no snark here - we miss Disney & the US in general especially living in a border city, but it is what it is).

They're saying this stuff because they're anonymous and they're not getting called on it to the extent they normally would be because doing so would get the rest of us points. No one is green lighting it. If someone said that out on the street in either my hometown (very conservative) or my current town (very liberal) the public reaction would be the same: disapproval.

But on the other hand, your argument that you won't visit a country that votes bigots into power probably bars you from living where you are. Bigots are everywhere in every political party.

 

[cruiser21]

If we all had the attitude of not visiting a country because we don't like their leader(s), we'd all be missing out on a lot of culture and history! But each to their own.

After spending a month in Europe last Summer I can honestly say immigration is as much a divisive subject over there as it is over here. Probably more so and I found people to be more vocal about it. I don't think there is anywhere you can go where your not going to find people that don't disagree with. I have very good friends I disagree with. I don't judge people by their political are religious views. I look at the person as a whole. We all have our good and bad qualities.

 

[Madame]

They're saying this stuff because they're anonymous and they're not getting called on it to the extent they normally would be because doing so would get the rest of us points. No one is green lighting it. If someone said that out on the street in either my hometown (very conservative) or my current town (very liberal) the public reaction would be the same: disapproval.

But on the other hand, your argument that you won't visit a country that votes bigots into power probably bars you from living where you are. Bigots are everywhere in every political party.

I hear you. They're everywhere, but I didn't say that I won't visit a country with bigots (hell, I've disowned family members that are so hate-filled it's consumed them).


What I won't do is visit a country where that type of hate has been validated by those currently in power (fostered, encouraged, applauded outright). I won't be visiting Russia or the Philippines anytime soon either.

ETA Sure there are probably bigots in Canadian gov. But our conservative leadership race firmly denounced the radical elements even within that party. Not that any of them were excellent to begin with & still too close-minded for an independant such as myself.

 

[cruiser21]

They're saying this stuff because they're anonymous and they're not getting called on it to the extent they normally would be because doing so would get the rest of us points. No one is green lighting it. If someone said that out on the street in either my hometown (very conservative) or my current town (very liberal) the public reaction would be the same: disapproval.

But on the other hand, your argument that you won't visit a country that votes bigots into power probably bars you from living where you are. Bigots are everywhere in every political party.

What is your definition of a Bigot? Someone that believes in closed borders? That word get thrown around a lot and I'm just curious how you define it.

 

[Dug720]

Terror attacks sometimes target different groups jews, christians, gays etc. that's where the "hate crime" label comes in. I consider this a terrorist attack because of who was responsible for it. If it was some random guy with no ties to Islamic terrorism it would be more of a hate crime in my opinion.

So by your definitiion, Oklahoma City was not "terrorism" because McVeigh was not Muslim.

At least acknowledge that your assertion that Pulse was NOT terrorism comes from your privilege of being cis-gendered and hetero-normative.

It would have been as much an act of terrorism if it was a fundamentalist Christian. It was intended to cause terror among a certain group. Which makes it both a hate crime AND an act of terror. NOT because of who committed it but WHY.

 

[cruiser21]

I hear you. They're everywhere, but I didn't say that I won't visit a country with bigots (hell, I've disowned family members that are so hate-filled it's consumed them).


What I won't do is visit a country where that type of hate has been validated by those currently in power (fostered, encouraged, applauded outright). I won't be visiting Russia or the Philippines anytime soon either.

ETA Sure there are probably bigots in Canadian gov. But our conservative leadership race firmly denounced the radical elements even within that party. Not that any of them were excellent to begin with & still too close-minded for an independant such as myself.

So your teaching your kids not to tolerate anyone that disagrees with you politically. Even to go so far as keep them from knowing certain family members. That seems as close minded as the very thing you are rallying against. There in lies the hypocrisy in the world.

 

[Madame]

So your teaching your kids not to tolerate anyone that disagrees with you politically. Even to go so far as keep them from knowing certain family members. That seems as close minded as the very thing you are rallying against. There in lies the hypocrisy in the world.

No. I don't try to force my views on others, but I expect the same in return. I usually live & let live until I've reached my limit.

I won't go into the ridiculous slurs or language, but not something you'd want to be exposed to.

I try not to be hypocritcal, but am only human. I will *not* however, tolerate the de-humanization of another group under the banner of free speech, my rights etc.

This has nothing to do with politics, nor with my political views. I've voted conservative, liberal & NDP here. This is about basic human decency & teaching my children that it's ok to be different, but not to try to impose your views on others.

I believe any further discussion on this will get us nowhere (but perhaps into the DIS doghouse). However, when you write things implying that the UK did this to themselves (twice), it's obvious no discussion can be had.

 

[cruiser21]

No. I don't try to force my views on others, but I expect the same in return. I usually live & let live until I've reached my limit.

I won't go into the ridiculous slurs or language, but not something you'd want to be exposed to.

I try not to be hypocritcal, but am only human. I will *not* however, tolerate the de-humanization of another group under the banner of free speech, my rights etc.

This has nothing to do with politics, nor with my political views. I've voted conservative, liberal & NDP here. This is about basic human decency & teaching my children that it's ok to be different, but not to try to impose your views on others.

I believe any further discussion on this will get us nowhere (but perhaps into the DIS doghouse). However, when you write things implying that the UK did this to themselves (twice), it's obvious no discussion can be had.

I guess we can agree to disagree.