No waitlisting with Developer Points?

[Snookies]

I am more in agreement with Doctor P and childsplay on this than others, but I'd also agree with the view that developer points aren't free to the buyer because they paid $8 or $10 per point for those developer points. For anyone trying to decide between points or discount, a rule of thumb a guide and I talked about when I was making a purchase during a similar promotion may be helpful. Specifically, her view was if you were planning on visiting WDW within the next 7 months anyway, take the points incentive; otherwise take the cash incentive.

 

[Doctor P]

are you serious? 15-20% increased demand from developer points. I would say about 1% if that.

where may I ask are you getting that number from?

in my opinion its BS plain and simple. 7 month rule is the 7 month rule

The potential points available as developer points technically include three years of points for the "hold back" at each of the resorts, plus all of the declared unsold inventory at all new resorts, plus all of the ROFR points not yet sold. This could, conceivably be as much as 30-40% of all points, or even more. Realistically, I'm guessing the number of points out there for Double Developer Points would more likely be in the range of a 8-10% increase in demand because you are cramming all of the demand into a twelve month period.

 

[ScottakaMickey]

I also was not told about all of the restrictions on the developer points until I tried to book with them. I did not know about the seven month window, so I was trying to book a room for next June, but was told no. When I explained to the CM that my guide did not mention the restriction, she just said "well, you have to remember the points are just free to you, so if you don't get to use them it really doesn't matter!" FREE, WHO IS SHE KIDDING? There is not one single point I have ever obtained that was FREE. I realize as a cost accountant I may have a different perspective, but come on...

Actually everyone who selected developer points were told. In our paperwork with the contract is a separate document that details out the restrictions and limitation of developer points, including the time to book and how long they are good for.

In watching the boards there is certainly a gap on what the guides tell and don't tell about the points and we also are challenged by CM's at MS that don't understand them completely or don't like them due to the manual processing aspect, but as others have posted there are really good CM's that know them well and will help you achieve your objective with your points.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

The potential points available as developer points technically include three years of points for the "hold back" at each of the resorts, plus all of the declared unsold inventory at all new resorts, plus all of the ROFR points not yet sold. This could, conceivably be as much as 30-40% of all points, or even more. Realistically, I'm guessing the number of points out there for Double Developer Points would more likely be in the range of a 8-10% increase in demand because you are cramming all of the demand into a twelve month period.

lol, do you have any idea how many points are out there? you are trying to tell me that developer points are upwards of 40% of all points?

sorry just dont buy it, not unless you gave me the numbers

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I guess I look at it from the perspective that Developer Points aren't "real" points, meaning they are are special one-time use points, so they probably shouldn't come with all the bells and whistles of regular points. No banking, borrowing, 11 month window or waitlist seems fair. As someone else pointed out, if you are really flexible things points can be an excellent value, but if not, then the discount might be a better way to go, you don't have to take the points.

I completely agree with everything you say above EXCEPT the waitlist

theres no reason the points should have banking or borrowing priviledges or have the 11 month window

But I see waitlisting as just simply using your points at the 7 month window.

whats the difference if someone books a room at the seven month mark or uses those points to be waitlisted

I havent waitlisted, but wouldnt you need the points to be available to actually waitlist?

I would think everyone would WANT them to be used to waitlist -- that keeps other slots open. If the dont waitlist they are more apt to book a open room

 

[childsplay]

I could be persuaded to go along with waitlist.
But, what I'd like even more is consistant, honest, acurate information up front on how the points work and consistant, friendly application on the back end.

 

[Doctor P]

lol, do you have any idea how many points are out there? you are trying to tell me that developer points are upwards of 40% of all points?

sorry just dont buy it, not unless you gave me the numbers

And I will assert that, despite the fact that there are a lot of points out there, Disney controls FAR more points than most people would ever conceive. Keep in mind that they technically control all of the exchange points, too, which could under certain circumstances also factor in. When you consider all of the sources of points, especially with the size of SSR and the proposed size of AKL versus the size of the other "sold out" resorts, yeah I am saying there are a heck of a lot of points they have control of. That said, I never claimed they had 40% of the points. Technically, you would only have to have control of as few as 13% of the points to effect a 40% increase in demand at any given point in time. My point is that they could effect a major, up to 40%, increase in demand. I think it wouldn't be that high in reality, but it will likely be very, very substantial.

 

[LisaS]

I completely agree with everything you say above EXCEPT the waitlist

theres no reason the points should have banking or borrowing priviledges or have the 11 month window

But I see waitlisting as just simply using your points at the 7 month window.

whats the difference if someone books a room at the seven month mark or uses those points to be waitlisted

I havent waitlisted, but wouldnt you need the points to be available to actually waitlist?

I would think everyone would WANT them to be used to waitlist -- that keeps other slots open. If the dont waitlist they are more apt to book a open room

I expect it has something to do with the waitlist software not knowing anything about, nor having any access to, the developer's points. Every post I've read about making reservations with developer's points mentions that it has to be done manually. If MS's reservation system does not have direct access to these points, then I doubt that the waitlist program does either.

If they did let you waitlist with the intention of using developer's points for that reservation, here's what I expect would happen: when your waitlist came through, the waitlist program would grab regular points out of your account for that reservation, possibly borrowing points as well. Once you noticed your waitlist had been filled, you would have to call MS and ask them to substitute your developer's points into that reservation, possibly including "unborrowing" some points, all of which would need to be done manually. I'm not sure what would happen if you didn't have enough "regular" points in your account to pay for the reservation. It's possible the waitlist program would just bypass you and give the reservation to the next person on the list. Or perhaps the reservation system doesn't even allow you to go on the waitlist unless you have enough points in your account to pay for it, in the event it comes through.

 

[OntFamily]

I have successfuly used DDP for waitlisting, but it was a huge ordeal......


After getting many management types involved, everything was straightened out.

I was originally told by MS and DVC Quality Assurance there was no waitlisting allowed (my guide and my guide's manager said otherwise). However, when I checked the contract (always check the facts) you can waitlist. There are no restrictions on using the points, with the exception of the 7 month booking window (the contract says they are treated as normal points).


When MS says no waitisting is allowed, they are only correct in that their system won't handle it automatically. You need to waitlist, have the point taken out as "regular" points, and then call to have the points manually reversed.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

And I will assert that, despite the fact that there are a lot of points out there, Disney controls FAR more points than most people would ever conceive. Keep in mind that they technically control all of the exchange points, too, which could under certain circumstances also factor in. When you consider all of the sources of points, especially with the size of SSR and the proposed size of AKL versus the size of the other "sold out" resorts, yeah I am saying there are a heck of a lot of points they have control of. That said, I never claimed they had 40% of the points. Technically, you would only have to have control of as few as 13% of the points to effect a 40% increase in demand at any given point in time. My point is that they could effect a major, up to 40%, increase in demand. I think it wouldn't be that high in reality, but it will likely be very, very substantial.

well I guess we will just disagree on the number of DP's out there and the demand it puts on the system

However, all that is regardless, the points are out there, like em or not. The point was on waitlisting with the points, which I still cant seem to understand why anyone would ever be against that.

I can understand the system might not make it possible and all that, but as far as having an effect on other members and why they would care is beyond me.

I havent waitlisted I dont want to waitlist with the DP's, but hey if others do fine by me. Please by all means waitlist to the max it can only leave other periods open or other waitlists free.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I expect it has something to do with the waitlist software not knowing anything about, nor having any access to, the developer's points. Every post I've read about making reservations with developer's points mentions that it has to be done manually. If MS's reservation system does not have direct access to these points, then I doubt that the waitlist program does either.

If they did let you waitlist with the intention of using developer's points for that reservation, here's what I expect would happen: when your waitlist came through, the waitlist program would grab regular points out of your account for that reservation, possibly borrowing points as well. Once you noticed your waitlist had been filled, you would have to call MS and ask them to substitute your developer's points into that reservation, possibly including "unborrowing" some points, all of which would need to be done manually. I'm not sure what would happen if you didn't have enough "regular" points in your account to pay for the reservation. It's possible the waitlist program would just bypass you and give the reservation to the next person on the list. Or perhaps the reservation system doesn't even allow you to go on the waitlist unless you have enough points in your account to pay for it, in the event it comes through.

Yes I would also think this is the case. So from a systems standpoint it might not be possible at all or very difficult at the least. I can buy that if MS gave that reason when saying the DP's could not be waitlisted...and that would be fine

I just dont understand how some people are saying..YOU SHOULDN"T BE ABLE TO WAITLIST!... because thats not fair to other members or its against the rules of the DP's

the fact is it is not against the rules of DP's and its completely fair to other members, I really cant see anything but a neutral or a positive affect to other members actually

 

[CarolMN]

I have successfuly used DDP for waitlisting, but it was a huge ordeal......


After getting many management types involved, everything was straightened out.

I was originally told by MS and DVC Quality Assurance there was no waitlisting allowed (my guide and my guide's manager said otherwise). However, when I checked the contract (always check the facts) you can waitlist. There are no restrictions on using the points, with the exception of the 7 month booking window (the contract says they are treated as normal points).


When MS says no waitisting is allowed, they are only correct in that their system won't handle it automatically. You need to waitlist, have the point taken out as "regular" points, and then call to have the points manually reversed.

Thanks for posting what was in the paperwork!

This seems to be the key for me - if there is nothing in the contract paperwork detailing the restrictions on developer points, those who have them should be able to use them for that purpose. (I think the fact that the paperwork does list some restrictions would be interpreted in the member's favor in a dispute. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, just an opinion).

Those who want to use the developer's points to secure a waitlist may need to talk to a supervisor and be prepared to monitor their account very carefully to be sure all is done as expected. When the computer doesn't support the rules, mistakes can (and apparently do) happen!

 

[ScottNBecky]

I just wanted to say that I am in the middle of using my DDP at the 7 mo. mark in March. I have to do it day by day or else wait until next Friday to try to get the entire trip in one shot. I figured I will try day by day. MS gave me a hard time about using DDP day by day. I told MS that I would be glad to make my ressie for 5 days RIGHT NOW, but MS said I am not within the 7 mo. window for the rest of my stay. I said I KNOW!

Anyway MS told me that they havent had someone try to make a ressie day by day using the DDP's. Long story short, I was told MS has to fill out a form for every ressie that uses DDP's. That form then goes to a "manager" ( I am guessing a supervisor of some sort) for approval. That is why some on here havent seen a confirmation # right away I guess. After a half hour of being on the phone I finally said, "So do I have the room for the night I need?" She said yes I did and to call back day by day for the others. Seems like a PITA to me.

 

[cgcw]

Anyway MS told me that they havent had someone try to make a ressie day by day using the DDP's. Long story short, I was told MS has to fill out a form for every ressie that uses DDP's. That form then goes to a "manager" ( I am guessing a supervisor of some sort) for approval. That is why some on here havent seen a confirmation # right away I guess. After a half hour of being on the phone I finally said, "So do I have the room for the night I need?" She said yes I did and to call back day by day for the others. Seems like a PITA to me.

Exactly my experience as well. I sure would have preferred to have a confirmation # as it feels much more concrete that way.

I agree that they are a PITA to use. I have spent so much time talking with the sales staff, our guide, another guide as ours was on vacation, MS, MS supervisors. I feel like I have earned those developer points over and over and over again.

The frosting on the cake was when I was hung up on by a MS CM. I couldn't believe when the phone line was dead. As snarky and snippy as she was on the phone with me, I hope I never have her answer another call of mine again. In fact, I hope she never answers anyones call as well.

 

[Snookies]

The following is a trite observation, but in revisiting this thread it occurs to me that someone doesn't waitlist with points. You ask to be put on a waitlist and if/when the reservation is confirmed, your points will be used. In this context, the comment about the system not being able to handle developer points because they require manual intervention seems right on the money. Sounds like a real PITA for both the user and MS, but there is a difference between PITA and not being "able" to do it.

 

[mjf]

So... I'm the one who started this thread and, as it turns out, my wife called MS today and, along with banking our 2006 UY points, she was able to get us waitlisted for tacking on one additional night to our stay around Christmas with our Developer Points.

Sounds to me like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

 

[GusMan]

Hello All,
As a new DVC member myself (as of earlier this month) I too tried to book a trip just beyond the 7 month mark and was declined because of the restriction that the was put on the DP's.

After seeing this thread, I looked at the last page of the contract. Sure enough, it says towards the bottom that the purchaser does not own the points and that there is a 7 month window.

Was this explained to me by our guide? Nope.
MS's response was somewhat expected. Those doing the sales may not know all the in's and out's.

We were also told that we could not waitlist DP's for a proposed trip in December.

So, what's my verdict? I should have taken the discount instead of the points. And even if I am able to use the DP's for the trip I want, its something that people need to be aware of. Just. In. Case.

 

[bwvBound]

Can you use the developer points to deposit with II and perhaps trade out at all? I was thinking that may be the best use of them if your stuck and can't get a good ressie. Once deposited with II in their system you would have two years to find a trade.

Answer I received this morning was, "Yes -- incentive points (aka developer point) may be used in II but only for an immediate confirmation." Translated, you can't bank incentive points with II -- but you may spend your incentive points to confirm an II reservation provided the destination was available w/out using II's waitlist.

Actually everyone who selected developer points were told. In our paperwork with the contract is a separate document that details out the restrictions and limitation of developer points, including the time to book and how long they are good for.

Indeed -- and mine, dated 9/30/07 clearly spells out that there is no waitlisting. (Watch the very last sentence of the snippet below.)

Document: VACATION OPTION AGREEMENT

3.(d) All reservations shall be made by the Disney Vacation Club Member Services Department and the all Developer Points will not be transferred to Purchaser's account. The Developer Points may be used to reserve multiple stays and the terms and conditions outlined herein shall apply separately to each stay. All booking windows, guidelines and policies, as described in the Resort Documents and the Reservation Guidelines (except as modified in this Agreement) shall apply. All reservations utilizing the Developer Points must be booked within the seven (7) month booking window and stays must be completed within twelve (12) months of the Contract Date of <my contract date>. Disney Cruise Line and Interval International vacations are exempt. These vacations can be booked according to normal booking guidelines and are not restricted to the seven (7) month booking window. Any Developer Points that remain unused after twelve (12) months of the Contract Date of <my contract date> shall be forfeited. All reservations are subject to availability and are accepted on a first come, first serve basis. Accommodations are limited and other restrictions may be imposed by the Resorts. Not all accommodation types are available at all Resorts. Room upgrades are not available. Developer Points may not be used for wait list reservations.

FWIW, MS was able to swap developer points for contract points on a series of upcoming reservations. So most of my developer points are now spent -- securing reservations I already had in the system using my regular points. One limitation: the existing reservations had to have been booked w/in the 7 month windows. It wasn't easy ... but they did it. Thank you, MS! :smiles:

 

[OntFamily]

Developer Points may not be used for wait list reservations.[/b][/font]

Interesting. My agreement from late July does not include this clause. Obviously it was added for the later purchasers.