No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[lugnut33]

I think that's the thing. We don't mind waiting in line. That is part of it, no way around it really. Even purchasing Genie+, you still have to wait at times. So that's why we don't purchase Genie+, just plan to go at less busy times of the day, do the headliners at rope drop or end of day, and wait in line for the other rides or see a show, eat some food, go for a swim during the busy times of the day.

Actually Genie+ works extremely well in uncrowded parks thus proving the only way Disney fixes the problem is through increasing attraction capacity (through rides or shows, especially at DHS).

 

[igrsod]

Even Genie+ works better at DL. A lot of it has to to with the amount of people buying.

That's very true. The more people that buy it, the less value it has for you... more people taking up the good rides, less availability and more potential waiting in LL lines. If only a few people bought it, wouldn't that be great... pretty much go on anything you want and just walk on.
If everyone in the park gets it, then everyone probably will only get a couple useful LLs. I assume it's a balancing act really for Disney... how many people, how much to charge. As I said before, I'm not a fan of it. I didn't feel like it improved our experience... if anything it was a detriment to our day, as the fun isn't always in the rides. But that's just us. It really depends on what you value in your Disney trip, and that's different for everyone.

 

[Jrb1979]

Actually Genie+ works extremely well in uncrowded parks thus proving the only way Disney fixes the problem is through increasing attraction capacity (through rides or shows, especially at DHS).

Agreed but we all know thats a long ways off from happening. When you factor in how slow they build things it's never going to be fixed. Limiting sales on Genie+ should help a lot.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Covid only affected Disney I see. It amazes how other parks managed to pull off anniversaries post Covid and with most of what was planned.

Not to get too far into the weeds, but Disney does more logistically in a day, than most smaller parks have in a year, the different parks anniversaries at least in my mind are like comparing hosting a backyard BBQ, to a wedding. The size of Disney not to mention the expectations of their guests is just a straight nightmare, i do agree that the 50th is lackluster, however I refuse to believe it is even close to the level Disney had originally planned.

Disney is still facing logistical problems, but because people have moved on from the pandemic, they expect things to just swing completely back to where they were pre pandemic, and that is not a possibility right now. the best example i have is the dining plan, Disney would clearly like to offer that cash cow to their guests, but their hands are tide at the moment due primarily to staffing constraints

 

[NavyDad]

Actually Genie+ works extremely well in uncrowded parks thus proving the only way Disney fixes the problem is through increasing attraction capacity (through rides or shows, especially at DHS).

That's what it all comes down to in the end: there are way more people that want to come to WDW and take their "dream vacation" that the parks have the capacity to handle.

We spend all of this time quibbling about the differences between the different virtual queueing systems but most of those differences are essentially lipstick on a pig. WDW is a magical place but no company can escape the realities of supply and demand.

That video does a really good job of showing the capacity in visual terms. All of these virtual queue iterations are really trying to do one thing: move the crowds around the park and to different rides in the most efficient way possible. The charts on that video showed it well: even using the most efficient virtual queue possible with everyone having equal conditions and the system working perfectly, each guest who visits would only get to experience 3-5 rides per day and that includes rides that would normally be a walk on with no virtual queue.

That means, with current capacity and demand, it is literally impossible to create a system that would keep everyone happy. Satisfaction really only generally increases once the guest becomes familiar enough with the current system that they are able to push themselves over to the right side of the chart where they are getting 6, 9, 12, 15 or 30 rides a day.

 

[Jrb1979]

Not to get too far into the weeds, but Disney does more logistically in a day, than most smaller parks have in a year, the different parks anniversaries at least in my mind are like comparing hosting a backyard BBQ, to a wedding. The size of Disney not to mention the expectations of their guests is just a straight nightmare, i do agree that the 50th is lackluster, however I refuse to believe it is even close to the level Disney had originally planned.

Disney is still facing logistical problems, but because people have moved on from the pandemic, they expect things to just swing completely back to where they were pre pandemic, and that is not a possibility right now. the best example i have is the dining plan, Disney would clearly like to offer that cash cow to their guests, but their hands are tide at the moment due primarily to staffing constraints

I do agree the shutdown played a part in what they offered and yes they are facing staffing issues. They still could have done more to celebrate the history of the parks. Other then the new night time show there is very little in terms of history of the parks.

 

[Jrb1979]

That's what it all comes down to in the end: there are way more people that want to come to WDW and take their "dream vacation" that the parks have the capacity to handle.

We spend all of this time quibbling about the differences between the different virtual queueing systems but most of those differences are essentially lipstick on a pig. WDW is a magical place but no company can escape the realities of supply and demand.

That video does a really good job of showing the capacity in visual terms. All of these virtual queue iterations are really trying to do one thing: move the crowds around the park and to different rides in the most efficient way possible. The charts on that video showed it well: even using the most efficient virtual queue possible with everyone having equal conditions and the system working perfectly, each guest who visits would only get to experience 3-5 rides per day and that includes rides that would normally be a walk on with no virtual queue.

That means, with current capacity and demand, it is literally impossible to create a system that would keep everyone happy. Satisfaction really only generally increases once the guest becomes familiar enough with the current system that they are able to push themselves over to the right side of the chart where they are getting 6, 9, 12, 15 or 30 rides a day.

There is no system that makes everyone happy and it's also why every other park out there limits availability of the skip the line pass.

 

[NavyDad]

Not to get too far into the weeds, but Disney does more logistically in a day, than most smaller parks have in a year, the different parks anniversaries at least in my mind are like comparing hosting a backyard BBQ, to a wedding. The size of Disney not to mention the expectations of their guests is just a straight nightmare, i do agree that the 50th is lackluster, however I refuse to believe it is even close to the level Disney had originally planned.

Disney is still facing logistical problems, but because people have moved on from the pandemic, they expect things to just swing completely back to where they were pre pandemic, and that is not a possibility right now. the best example i have is the dining plan, Disney would clearly like to offer that cash cow to their guests, but their hands are tide at the moment due primarily to staffing constraints

I'm not really going to dip into the 50th anniversary debate but just wanted to chime in that we live 30 minutes from Hersheypark which is one of the most popular theme parks in the country. My son used to work there and I have a few friends working there in various capacities.

They are continuing to have a nightmare of a time with staffing. Their hours are severely limited compared to what they were pre-covid and even when they are open there are large periods of time where major attractions are not open because they have no one to operate the rides. They used to have a good amount of entertainment and shows but they have really struggled to bring those back as it's even harder to hire entertainers than it is to hire someone to man the register at boardwalk fries. The waterpark is only open to AP holders at this point.

Yet - the crowds keep coming with no end in sight.

 

[mercuryvenus]

I'm not really going to dip into the 50th anniversary debate but just wanted to chime in that we live 30 minutes from Hersheypark which is one of the most popular theme parks in the country. My son used to work there and I have a few friends working there in various capacities.

They are continuing to have a nightmare of a time with staffing. Their hours are severely limited compared to what they were pre-covid and even when they are open there are large periods of time where major attractions are not open because they have no one to operate the rides. They used to have a good amount of entertainment and shows but they have really struggled to bring those back as it's even harder to hire entertainers than it is to hire someone to man the register at boardwalk fries. The waterpark is only open to AP holders at this point.

Yet - the crowds keep coming with no end in sight.

wait, I thought everyone else is doing awesome and Disney is awful!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Genie Plus and MaxPass are very similar in how they work, especially now that you will have to buy Genie+ day of use. Obviously the scope and scale of WDW is so much larger than DL so experience may not be the same, but as far as how they approach queueing theory, MaxPass and Genie Plus are about as close as you can get.

There are some differences in how they function though at each park just like how FP+ worked differently than MP at DL despite the fact that they were similar products. When I've been perusing DL threads it seems overall less complaints than with WDW.

• At DL you don't get any extra benefit for the time. Everyone has to be in the park to start making Genie+ selections which was the same for MP. At WDW it's 7am irrespective of park opening or someone's location in the park.
• Same goes for ILL where you have to be in the parks at DL but not at WDW. ILL at WDW for offsite is only park opening but 7am for onsite
• Park hopping is allowable at 1pm at DL and 2pm at WDW. Minor differences but does affect how someone may use Genie+/ILL
• MP did have where you could only get next time available so they are carrying that over at both parks for Genie+ but you can select from the list (although the time does change for people that was mentioned pages back) for ILL at WDW whereas at DL ILL are just next time available.
• PhotoPass does not come with Genie+ at WDW but it does at DL.

I remember maybe a month or so ago I saw an article and it ran the numbers for how often the selections run out at WDW vs DL and it's shockingly very different. We know DL is a local's park and while it's a few buck more expensive at DL that amount wouldn't deter people at WDW.

We know that for DL the hotels aren't a huge draw like they need to be at WDW so that's probably why they gave onsite a bigger advantage for the ILL but these differences (and likely more that have been covered over the time) do affect how the program works at the parks. I'm wondering if some of the angst would be relieved if some of these things required being in the park like they do over at DL. When we went to DL in 2019 twice and used MP it was sorta a mad rush to get your MP purchased and your first selection right when you entered the park but at least it meant people had to be there instead of getting it hours ahead of me because we weren't on site.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

wait, I thought everyone else is doing awesome and Disney is awful!

Save the sarcasm please

 

[Jrb1979]

wait, I thought everyone else is doing awesome and Disney is awful!

Staffing wise all parks are having issues. That's only part of it. For my family Disney has become a lot more complex to visit since Covid. From reservations, to Genie+, mobile ordering it's a complete mess for us.

Contrast that to our Cedar Point visit last week and it's night and day. The only big change is they are cashless now. Outside of that it's fun the exact same as they were before Covid. The only issues I saw there were some food places didn't open due to lack of staff.

 

[Jennasis]

lol, so you want the opportunity to win a bunch of free stuff. Got it. All that was was a big sweepstakes. Nothing more, nothing less.

I’m increasingly realizing that for a lot of people, “the magic”/“pixie dust” = free stuff from Disney.

Oh, and you wanted that in the midst of a time period where Disney parks lost a huge amount of money due to being closed for several months.

We wanted the buzz and excitement and enthusiasm that YOAMD had. And wahhhh poor little rich girl (Disney being the rich girl)...they lost a huge amount of money and can't afford to give away hats, t shirts, Fast passes or trips to their own park?? Poor them...how ever will they survive?

Puh-lease.

You asked why the 50th was falling short. The answer is because we've seen then do better. They can't rehearse a new parade? THATS what your going with? But they can send a beloved old parade back to Disneyland though...a park not celebrating a milestone.

 

[xipotec]

Regarding the section where you talk about the potential Genie+ being lower than previous iterations: I just fundamentally disagree with this assertion that you (and many others on this board) are making. There are recent YouTube videos where Molly (All Ears) walks into MK and does every single attraction using Genie Plus. She has shown you can do that at every park. Even further she does the same thing in other videos but makes it more of a "perfect day" experience instead of just trying to ride everything as fast as you can. We visited towards the tail end of spring break when crowds were very heavy and we were easily able to do all major attractions at both MK and DHS very easily in half days at the parks.

Obviously everyone's experience is going to be slightly different depending on many factors such as crowd size, weather, party size and a million other factors but from looking at the data from the thrill rides website there has been nothing to suggest so far that using the current iteration of a "Fast Pass" system gives guests less potential experiences for they day than the most recent version of "fast pass" systems. We'll see if that changes during they busy summer months and as they tweak availability of Genie+

Regarding planning, I don't see it as a major earth-shattering change. With FP+ you could book the three attractions ahead of time but those choices were limited to tiers and the fact that everyone else was also able to pick 3 ahead of time meant that options were could be much more limited after you were able to use your first 3 FP+ and get more. With just a little planning, you can get an idea of which Genie Plus attractions to for first thing in the morning and then also you are able to pick a time that works best for you when you book the $ILL attractions. Again - during our recent Spring Break trip we made plans based on our research here and watching 4-5 YouTube videos and were easily able to get everything we wanted at very close to the times we were expecting.

Regarding "gaming the system" you can all it what you want but those of us who study Disney's complex capacity management systems and share tips on this board are absolutely using principles associated with "game theory" to maximize their share of a limited resource (ride capacity). Making plans, sharing them to be critiqued and sharing tips to maximize potential are not all too dissimilar to the war-gaming our military does or the table top strategy sessions we use at home or work to come up with a plan. I understand "gaming the system" has developed a negative connotation but we are all trying to game the system - which is different than cheating the system.

Like someone else mentioned - this is all about capacity. These systems are all capacity management. Disney can try to change them all they want but smart people on the DIS or Reddit or some other forum are going to come together and figure out ways to maximize potential resource gathering (ride capacity) and share them with like minded WDW obsessed people. As Disney make changes the details of the system will change some and we may not like that as we have become so familiar with the old system, but over the last 15 years most of the strategies have really not changed much.

I saw that video. Its worth noting when she did them. As a weekday in Feb or even March, it nothing like a summer weekday.

I think the real problems are just beginning for the summer.

Yes , its crowded all the time, but comparing a random week in off season to summer or xmas is not really a good comparison.

 

[leiaorgana]

wait, I thought everyone else is doing awesome and Disney is awful!

Disney themselves know they aren’t living up to people’s expectations when it comes to the 50th anniversary and that’s why they’re sending out surveys asking about everything people have mentioned made it a let down for them but go off I guess.

 

[mercuryvenus]

We wanted the buzz and excitement and enthusiasm that YOAMD had. And wahhhh poor little rich girl (Disney being the rich girl)...they lost a huge amount of money and can't afford to give away hats, t shirts, Fast passes or trips to their own park?? Poor them...how ever will they survive?

Puh-lease.

You asked why the 50th was falling short. The answer is because we've seen then do better. They can't rehearse a new parade? THATS what your going with? But they can send a beloved old parade back to Disneyland though...a park not celebrating a milestone.

It’s way easier to do the MSEP than to design and rehearse a brand new parade when you’ve been forced to lay off most of your performers. Also, the reason Disneyland got that is because it’s the 50th Anniversary of that parade opening in DL. It didn’t go to WDW until 1977.

But really if it comes down to wanting a sweepstakes, then ok — different strokes I guess. I don’t really care about free stuff.

 

[Jennasis]

It’s way easier to do the MSEP than to design and rehearse a brand new parade when you’ve been forced to lay off most of your performers. Also, the reason Disneyland got that is because it’s the 50th Anniversary of that parade opening in DL. It didn’t go to WDW until 1977.

But really if it comes down to wanting a sweepstakes, then ok — different strokes I guess. I don’t really care about free stuff.

Exactly...MSEP should have been left at WDW for the 50th. That should have trumped the parades DL anniversary. Or they could have swapped it for Paint the Night. Didn't need a whole new parade.

But I digress...

And don't think I'm a hater. I'm a DVC owner, an AP holder, I've been going since 1977,have been twice this year and have 2 more trios planned before the year is out, and 3 trips planned for next year. I'm just not at all enthused with the leadership or direction of the company.

 

[mercuryvenus]

Exactly...MSEP should have been left at WDW for the 50th. That should have trumped the parades DL anniversary. Or they could have swapped it for Paint the Night. Didn't need a whole new parade.

But I digress...

And don't think I'm a hater. I'm a DVC owner, an AP holder, I've been going since 1977,have been twice this year and have 2 more trios planned before the year is out, and 3 trips planned for next year. I'm just not at all enthused with the leadership or direction of the company.

I guess I’m just confused as to why you’d spend so much money and time with a company you seem so unhappy with. There’s a difference between having some criticisms of a place and spending a significant amount of time complaining.

We are DVC owners and AP holders too, but if we were as upset as you all seem to be with the experience and the company, we would be neither. The only decision Disney has made that I truly disagree with to the point of actually being upset about it is the re-theming of Splash Mountain. I think it’s unnecessary, since the ride itself has nothing overtly to do with the racist movie the animals came from.

 

[Jrb1979]

I guess I’m just confused as to why you’d spend so much money and time with a company you seem so unhappy with. There’s a difference between having some criticisms of a place and spending a significant amount of time complaining.

We are DVC owners and AP holders too, but if we were as upset as you all seem to be with the experience and the company, we would be neither.

I am neither and don't have any plans to go any time soon til major changes happen. It saddens me as we have a year old daughter that we would like to take some day.

 

[Jennasis]

I guess I’m just confused as to why you’d spend so much money and time with a company you seem so unhappy with. There’s a difference between having some criticisms of a place and spending a significant amount of time complaining.

We are DVC owners and AP holders too, but if we were as upset as you all seem to be with the experience and the company, we would be neither.

I'm hoping it will turn around. And it's a product I LOVE. There is a lot of joy and nostalgia and great memories wrapped up in the 46 YEARS I've been going. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet...

Then again, I also don't need to justify anything.

(Funny enough, Splash is my FAVORITE ride. Hands down. The retheme is one of the decisions I am totally okay with.)