No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

So, is the takeaway that Genie+ is in far more demand than FastPass or FastPass+?
If that's the case, why?
Does it have merely to do with revenge travel and the crowds?

From a functionality standpoint with FastPass +, one could "pre-schedule" something like 2 or 3 rides, right? Did availability of FastPass+ have the ability to "run out" due to demand and did it as often as Genie+?

Wouldn't the smarter play have been to keep FastPass+, but then just charge for it?
I'm not sure how Genie+ is superior to FastPass+
I'm not being facetious. I honestly don't know.
As for an answer to this question, yes. I stayed offsite most of the time during the Fastpass+ era and by the time I was able to book my 3 selections, FOP, Slinky and Mine Train were gone for my entire trip due to onsite guests grabbing them 30 days before I had the chance.
 
As for an answer to this question, yes. I stayed offsite most of the time during the Fastpass+ era and by the time I was able to book my 3 selections, FOP, Slinky and Mine Train were gone for my entire trip due to onsite guests grabbing them 30 days before I had the chance.
FoP, SDD and 7DMTR were all top tier rides that would have used ILL$ under Genie +. So instead if getting shut out 30 days in advance, offsite guests are now getting shut out for ILL$ attractions before park opening. At least with FP+, you had 30 days to fiddle-faddle and try to get those coveted rides, modify your choices to times that work better for you and temper your expectations if it doesn't work out.

As to why they just didn't charge for FP+ instead, well they are using the old FP+ software to manage park reservations.
 
I gotta say, I've never been a fan of choosing what rides I want to go on before I'm anywhere near the park. Part of the fun for me is not being tied to too strict a schedule. I can also be pretty patient waiting in line.
 
FoP, SDD and 7DMTR were all top tier rides that would have used ILL$ under Genie +. So instead if getting shut out 30 days in advance, offsite guests are now getting shut out for ILL$ attractions before park opening. At least with FP+, you had 30 days to fiddle-faddle and try to get those coveted rides, modify your choices to times that work better for you and temper your expectations if it doesn't work out.

As to why they just didn't charge for FP+ instead, well they are using the old FP+ software to manage park reservations.
Very true. I knew how to use Fastpass+ quite well and yet I was never able to get Slinky. I actually rode it for the first time in May due to Genie+. I was also never able to get FOP and Mine Train for any time in the morning. I do think that not everyone could or knew how to "fiddle faddle" for Fastpass+ selections. There were tons of people that went into the parks day of and didn't know Fastpass+ was a thing, but couldn't grab anything a tier above Barnstormer since everything was taken months prior.

Both systems were and still are very flawed.
 


I have a question, I haven't read the whole thread, but I've read enough.

Is the magic defined by how many rides you can get on for you? My wife and I aren't pros like everyone here, we went to WDW as a kid, then disneyland in 2011, then world again in in 2021, and 2022. We have also had a few single day trips here and there while we were traveling in the Orlando area. Also have a few universal trips in there as well.

Disney to me still has something special. We have traveled many places, my wife and I even lived in an RV full time for a year and a half traveling and seeing the country. One of our favorite places to vacation is Disney.

Is it different than it was? Yes. Do we like the extra money for G+ and ILL no.

For us Disney is not all about rides. If we wanted to do just rides, there are plenty of other theme parks and amusement parks we could go to, but the overall experience at disney is something special, still. My wife and I own our own business, and we take one real vacation a year where we turn things off completely , last couple of years it has been to Disney. To us the something special is the ability to go in one location and get all the different experiences you can get at WDW. You get the amusement parks, but you also can get world class dining and restaurants, you also get the experiences at the different resorts. For us rope dropping and doing some of our favorites rides is fun, but its also fun to walk around animal kingdom lodge and check out the animals. Seeing shows is just as important to us as eating at the different restaurants and eating things we normally wouldn't eat at home. The ability to do all of those things in one location is amazing. Plus that extra Disney touch, while it is going away in places, but it is still there in others.
 
Is the magic defined by how many rides you can get on for you?
Different types of guests different types of what encompasses magic to them.

If you ask someone like me who only goes about every 6 years..it's important to actually be able to do rides especially new ones. I'm not just going to be able to get do it a few months down the road and sometimes rides have closed before I've been able to enjoy them.

But it's not just the number of rides it's how the queuing experience goes, it's how you feel you are being treated, it's what goes into the rules (like how FP+ was, ADRs and now Genie+ and LL and park reservations), it's costs, just all sorts of how do I feel touring the parks. I don't mind work for WDW we know what those trips are like much like our history trips where you're go go go sight seeing, but this last trip felt just so off. We felt so relaxed at Universal. Spending time with our friends at WDW and the wedding is what made our trip, otherwise I would have been fairly grumpy. Oh sure I enjoyed parts to it but overall I came away feeling a certain way like it wasn't a horrible trip just something wasn't quite there.

And even if my frequency of going picks up it likely won't be more than once in a several year time period. I have a hard time even thinking about going to Orlando and not doing both parks but I did tell my husband I'm mighty tempted to go back sooner than anticipated and doing only a Universal trip staying onsite there again. The next trip would be after Epic Universe opens but I doubt we'd want to go the minute it opens assume that's still summer of 2025. That is unless we become really really tempted to just go down for Universal beforehand. To give a perspective after our last trip in September 2017 before this one this year (which was solely due to a wedding) my husband excitedly talked about doing a quick F&W trip. After this trip though, it's just not worth it to go down, too expensive in tickets, park reservations, Genie+/LL costs, etc and Epcot is one of our fav parks.
 
Your post brings me to a point I have made a few times. My family visits multiple different parks a year. Since May we have already done 3 different amusement parks. We have seen how other parks treat guests and pass holders. Right now Disney is near the bottom in our opinion.

Genie+ has shown to work for some and but for most it's been a disaster. I'm sorry but you shouldn't need a PHD to visit a theme park. Add in reservations as well and it's getting more complex than it needs to be.

As pass holders go the way Disney thinks of them is disgusting. I have a Cedar Fair platinum pass and the perks they have added for us as well as extending our pass til labor Day this year due to Covid has been amazing.

IMO most Disney park goers visit other parks much and see how well they are run in comparison.
I get excellent treatment from cast members when I decide to interact.

We are passholders at Disney. I've not felt the disgust.

I can't compare to other theme parks, it's been a long while since I've been to another theme park. Like over a decade!

That's me though. I can be oblivious to what might cause others discomfort.

And, a PHD? Come on, you must be exaggerating. It's not intuitive but it's also not that hard to use. If you're going to drop serious money on a Disney vacation, take some time to watch a youtube video or two.

I'd speculate the sheer number of people that visit Disney make it impossible to offer easy front of the line access without a VIP tour.

Just saying Disney still gives me the chills and makes me teary eyed. I got 100% magic on my last trip.
 


I have a question, I haven't read the whole thread, but I've read enough.

Is the magic defined by how many rides you can get on for you? My wife and I aren't pros like everyone here, we went to WDW as a kid, then disneyland in 2011, then world again in in 2021, and 2022. We have also had a few single day trips here and there while we were traveling in the Orlando area. Also have a few universal trips in there as well.

Disney to me still has something special. We have traveled many places, my wife and I even lived in an RV full time for a year and a half traveling and seeing the country. One of our favorite places to vacation is Disney.

Is it different than it was? Yes. Do we like the extra money for G+ and ILL no.

For us Disney is not all about rides. If we wanted to do just rides, there are plenty of other theme parks and amusement parks we could go to, but the overall experience at disney is something special, still. My wife and I own our own business, and we take one real vacation a year where we turn things off completely , last couple of years it has been to Disney. To us the something special is the ability to go in one location and get all the different experiences you can get at WDW. You get the amusement parks, but you also can get world class dining and restaurants, you also get the experiences at the different resorts. For us rope dropping and doing some of our favorites rides is fun, but its also fun to walk around animal kingdom lodge and check out the animals. Seeing shows is just as important to us as eating at the different restaurants and eating things we normally wouldn't eat at home. The ability to do all of those things in one location is amazing. Plus that extra Disney touch, while it is going away in places, but it is still there in others.
This could be my post! Except for the Universal part. 😉

Fort Wilderness is one of my favorite spots in the whole world. That sounds crazy but it is! We have a little camper and try to spend 10 days there spring and fall. And what you said about the restaurants, so true!
 
I get excellent treatment from cast members when I decide to interact.

We are passholders at Disney. I've not felt the disgust.

I can't compare to other theme parks, it's been a long while since I've been to another theme park. Like over a decade!

That's me though. I can be oblivious to what might cause others discomfort.

And, a PHD? Come on, you must be exaggerating. It's not intuitive but it's also not that hard to use. If you're going to drop serious money on a Disney vacation, take some time to watch a youtube video or two.

I'd speculate the sheer number of people that visit Disney make it impossible to offer easy front of the line access without a VIP tour.

Just saying Disney still gives me the chills and makes me teary eyed. I got 100% magic on my last trip.
I didn't grow up going to Disney so I've never had that emotional attachment.

Its a bit of exaggeration about a PHD but for a theme park it's more complex to visit then needed.

They could easily offer front of the line access. It would have limited availability like every other park. From things I have heard Genie+ is only meant to work with 10% of guests using it. They need to price people out to make it work.
 
We just got back from a week long trip to WDW. We stayed at Kidani, which turned out to be one of our favorite stays ever. We were lucky enough to get a room close to the lobby, which made all the difference. Such a peaceful, beautiful resort. A really good memory.

But....we didn't get Genie + or use the Lightening Lane. Still can't stomach the fact that Disney is making us pay for an inferior alternative to what used to be free. So we opted instead to get up early for rope drop, both to avoid the ridiculous costs, and because it was almost impossible, given the heat, to stay in the parks past about 10:30 am.

This summer was when our grandkids could go, though, it was where they wanted to go, and for those reasons I'm still glad we went. We did have a great family visit.

However...getting up at 5:45 am to make early entry isn't all that much fun. It especially isn't fun when the rides you are doing that for are broken. Announcement at Hollywood Studios at early entry - Rise of Resistance down; will be down for indeterminate multiple hours. Announcement at Epcot the next day at early entry - Remy down, unknown when it will be fixed, suggest you maybe go ride Test Track. Lines for almost every ride were long, long, long; even some of the dependable older rides were down when we wanted to ride; and of course the parks were all jammed. Too many people for the 4 parks, and the solution seems to be to just let the guests deal with it.

Going to Disney is more and more like work. It's hard not to resent every single petty subtraction from what used to make these trips so much fun. The value for the time and money we spend there seems to be very quickly draining away. The cast members on our trip were the saving grace - almost uniformly kind and helpful. But the people running the show seem to be far more Scrooge McDuck than Mickey Mouse - greedy and petty beyond belief. Is Disney really that hard up for every penny they can possible squeeze out of their guests?

I'm not going to lie - my grandkids' happiness is going to make me keep coming back for awhile longer. But the kids are quickly growing up and it's hard not to ask myself: At what point will it make more sense to stop trying to ride Remy, and just use my money to go to actual Paris instead?
Your quote about Disney being more like work is 100% spot on! Who wants to pay $8-$10k for a seven day vacation for a family of 5 to, in turn, have to stay up until midnight and wake up again at 7am to pay for what FastPass did for free? Seriously, where is the increased value for me as a guest?

I see the comments suggesting to just not purchase Genie+ and that’s certainly an option. But it’s an option that comes with the realization that you’ll stand in longer lines to experience less attractions. That value proposition doesn’t appeal to me either.

It’s absolutely more work for less value for my family.
 
FoP, SDD and 7DMTR were all top tier rides that would have used ILL$ under Genie +. So instead if getting shut out 30 days in advance, offsite guests are now getting shut out for ILL$ attractions before park opening. At least with FP+, you had 30 days to fiddle-faddle and try to get those coveted rides, modify your choices to times that work better for you and temper your expectations if it doesn't work out.

As to why they just didn't charge for FP+ instead, well they are using the old FP+ software to manage park reservations.
You bring up a great point and a main source of frustration i overheard several times from guests as I walked by customer experience umbrellas in the park. Guests are ultra-upset when they find out on “day of” that LL isn’t going to work for one of their family’s favorite attractions. When you did it 30 days in advance, you had time to reset your plan or reset expectations on what was achievable and make informed decisions.
 
I'm so sorry you're not having a great time. I can understand something like that putting a dampener on your trip. If you feel up to it, you should go to guest services and voice your disappointment there or send them some kind of an email detailing everything once you get back so that they know to do better. If more people tell them that Genie+ isn't working out then they'll have to take notice at some point.
I am afraid I think it’s deliberate, creating chaos to push people to pay for what used to be free. Perhaps they think by changing its name they are fooling us. But essentially it’s the once free fast pass that is now (for my family) $60 a day for a ten day holiday. $600 to put me back in the position I was in before for free! I am at Epcot now standing in queues full of miserable people. The poor cast members are standing with rictus smiles through it all, fielding complaints that they are overly prioritisng genie +. Which they probably are. Because they’ve been told to. Its day one of our holiday, I refuse to take part in genie + because the more of us that are extorted for the money the worse it will get. I think I am done with Disney for a while until/ unless this is sorted. I am hopeful people will go home with their terrible stories and put others off and Disney will re evaluate. But I wouldn’t count on it. I am not naive. I know it was always about money. People with more bought dinners and fireworks packages and suites and concierge and boat trips. But there was a neat little egalitarian illusion for the rides in the park at least. I would lying to say that this hasn’t taken the shine off things for me. It isn’t what it has been for us for the past ten years. And I am really really sad about that and also thankful that our kids had the best of it.
 
I gotta say, I've never been a fan of choosing what rides I want to go on before I'm anywhere near the park. Part of the fun for me is not being tied to too strict a schedule. I can also be pretty patient waiting in line.
Personally, I loved having 3 FPs before setting foot in the park. I knew we were guaranteed to ride 3 of our "must do" rides. We could try and plan the rest of the day or just wing it.
 
I am afraid I think it’s deliberate, creating chaos to push people to pay for what used to be free. Perhaps they think by changing its name they are fooling us. But essentially it’s the once free fast pass that is now (for my family) $60 a day for a ten day holiday. $600 to put me back in the position I was in before for free! I am at Epcot now standing in queues full of miserable people. The poor cast members are standing with rictus smiles through it all, fielding complaints that they are overly prioritisng genie +. Which they probably are. Because they’ve been told to. Its day one of our holiday, I refuse to take part in genie + because the more of us that are extorted for the money the worse it will get. I think I am done with Disney for a while until/ unless this is sorted. I am hopeful people will go home with their terrible stories and put others off and Disney will re evaluate. But I wouldn’t count on it. I am not naive. I know it was always about money. People with more bought dinners and fireworks packages and suites and concierge and boat trips. But there was a neat little egalitarian illusion for the rides in the park at least. I would lying to say that this hasn’t taken the shine off things for me. It isn’t what it has been for us for the past ten years. And I am really really sad about that and also thankful that our kids had the best of it.
That's up to you, but I can say from experience that my enjoyment of the parks last month was VASTLY improved by purchasing G+. I loathe the fact that it is not free anymore as well, but when I take into consideration the overall cost of my vacation, I'm glad I paid for it every day because I rode far more rides and my average wait time was drastically improved. We actually had time to shop, grab a snack, take in the beauty of the parks, etc... It was a game changer versus last summer when everything was standby only. That was terrible and we would never visit again if they went back to that.

Might want to try it one day for $60, especially at MK or HS, and see if it's worth it. I can't imagine being there and forcing ourselves to standby only

Dan
 
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We went twice before Genie+ and waiting in those 60-80 min queues was miserable with young kids. We did 2 rides (pirates and JC) and exited MK. Half our party was so exhausted they didn’t even go back for BOG dinner reservation.
 
I'm glad I paid for it every day because I rode far more rides and my average wait time was drastically improved
I would say that is true compared to just doing standby.
However; with the lack of flexibility that Genie + has, we have yet to be able to ride as many rides using Genie + as we did with FP+.
But, that doesn't really matter as FP+ isn't coming back. Just wish they would add the flexibility to Genie +. Being able to modify times, switch one ride for another, and ride rides again (all of which FP+ had) would get rid of a lot of the complaints.
 
I would say that is true compared to just doing standby.
However; with the lack of flexibility that Genie + has, we have yet to be able to ride as many rides using Genie + as we did with FP+.
But, that doesn't really matter as FP+ isn't coming back. Just wish they would add the flexibility to Genie +. Being able to modify times, switch one ride for another, and ride rides again (all of which FP+ had) would get rid of a lot of the complaints.
I agree with all of this. I would LOVE to have FP+ back. Versus the standby only option, G+ is still lightyears better. Our 8 park days last month were actually super fun again, thanks to G+. I just wish they offered a number of times throughout the day to choose from like with FP+. I was up early one morning for way too long waiting for Space, Splash or BTMRR to get to after noon, since we were sleeping in that morning and having lunch at the resort before heading to the parks. Nothing like losing 2 hours of sleep needlessly.

Dan
 

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