No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[Smugpugmug]

Yeah, the 1% er's will pay that, but the average middle-class family will not... oops forget the middle class they've already been priced out. Lets' say the upper class won't pay it. There are plenty of wealthy people to keep the VIP tours full, but that's not the majority of people that visit the parks... or even their target audience.

True. It's not the majority of people but it's enough people to where Disney is catering to that demographic more and more. On my February and May trips, I noticed WAY more VIP groups than I ever have before, including before the pandemic. There was a point where when I was sitting in ABC Commissary with my mom, every table around us was a VIP group (the guides were sitting with the groups).

 

[Mike in AR]

I’m just ending a 7 day trip to DW with my wife and 3 kids and this thread title really resonated with me. I’m a 42 year old Dad that started taking his kids to Disney 9 years ago and we’ve visited 11 times since 2013. There are certainly a few enhancements like mobile food ordering that deserve to be applauded, but the sum total is a declining guest experience from my perspective.

I could pontificate at length about room prices (we’ve been Port Orleans people but we got a luxurious 4 bd, 3ba condo 15 minutes from MK cheaper than PO this time), the downgrade to Genie + compared to FastPass, ending Meal Plans which results in a 2 or 2.5 times over market priced “table service” meal and the list truly goes on.

What’s even more noticeable and more dire than all of those things is a growing lack of courtesy from cast members at every park. From yelling and aggressive transportation/parking employees, to wholly rude snack vendors, to rude and condescending ride attraction workers, the Magic is definitely dying from my perspective with many cast members whom I could call by their first names after this week.

Now let me say, it’s still alive with a select few such as TJ on Tower of Terror. What an amazing employee who should be celebrated.

But overall, as a guy who’s attended two Disney Institute courses and learned about the 5 Disney Keys with one being courtesy and one being show, they are simply deficient and lacking amongst the majority of their staff now from my experience. I plan to reach out to my DI instructor and tell him they should consider cutting the 5 Keys content if they aren’t going to demonstrate them accordingly.

 

[Figvention]

I’m just ending a 7 day trip to DW with my wife and 3 kids and this thread title really resonated with me. I’m a 42 year old Dad that started taking his kids to Disney 9 years ago and we’ve visited 11 times since 2013. There are certainly a few enhancements like mobile food ordering that deserve to be applauded, but the sum total is a declining guest experience from my perspective.

I could pontificate at length about room prices (we’ve been Port Orleans people but we got a luxurious 4 bd, 3ba condo 15 minutes from MK cheaper than PO this time), the downgrade to Genie + compared to FastPass, ending Meal Plans which results in a 2 or 2.5 times over market priced “table service” meal and the list truly goes on.

What’s even more noticeable and more dire than all of those things is a growing lack of courtesy from cast members at every park. From yelling and aggressive transportation/parking employees, to wholly rude snack vendors, to rude and condescending ride attraction workers, the Magic is definitely dying from my perspective with many cast members whom I could call by their first names after this week.

Now let me say, it’s still alive with a select few such as TJ on Tower of Terror. What an amazing employee who should be celebrated.

But overall, as a guy who’s attended two Disney Institute courses and learned about the 5 Disney Keys with one being courtesy and one being show, they are simply deficient and lacking amongst the majority of their staff now from my experience. I plan to reach out to my DI instructor and tell him they should consider cutting the 5 Keys content if they aren’t going to demonstrate them accordingly.

In the healthcare field (which I am acutely associated with), the most studied metric is deterioration of service amongst frontline providers. Correction of health issues, comfort of the bed, and quality of the food rate far far lower in patient’s importance than the interaction with those who deliver the service. The levels of care and correction can actually DECREASE and it doesn’t effect reviews reviews as much as the human to human interaction does. We are social animals, first and always.

The lack of curtesy and kindness at the human level is the first sign you are being treated like a customer/number and not a “guest”. This will bite them in the pocketbook faster than crowd levels and rides being down. When I spend in excess of 5k on vacation (really the floor these days), I don’t want a Wendy’s drive thru customer interaction, sorry. I loves me a Dave’s Double and a cold Coke after an afternoon of yard work and I don’t begrudge the customer experience (because it is Wendy’s), but I am also not spending the wages of a working class family’s monthly income in that transaction. We had a tatted up CM working in transportation that looked ridiculously hungover driving a bus rip into a family who was taking an extended period of time packing up strollers

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In the healthcare field (which I am acutely associated with), the most studied metric is deterioration of service amongst frontline providers. Correction of health issues, comfort of the bed, and quality of the food rate far far lower in patient’s importance than the interaction with those who deliver the service. The levels of care and correction can actually DECREASE and it doesn’t effect reviews reviews as much as the human to human interaction does. We are social animals, first and always.

The lack of curtesy and kindness at the human level is the first sign you are being treated like a customer/number and not a “guest”. This will bite them in the pocketbook faster than crowd levels and rides being down. When I spend in excess of 5k on vacation (really the floor these days), I don’t want a Wendy’s drive thru customer interaction, sorry. I loves me a Dave’s Double and a cold Coke after an afternoon of yard work and I don’t begrudge the customer experience (because it is Wendy’s), but I am also not spending the wages of a working class family’s monthly income in that transaction. We had a tatted up CM working in transportation that looked ridiculously hungover driving a bus rip into a family who was taking an extended period of time packing up strollers

I was with you until you compared Wendy's employees and brought up tattoos. Those speak more about how you feel about those two things than an objective observation about how Disney does customer service

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

In the healthcare field (which I am acutely associated with), the most studied metric is deterioration of service amongst frontline providers. Correction of health issues, comfort of the bed, and quality of the food rate far far lower in patient’s importance than the interaction with those who deliver the service. The levels of care and correction can actually DECREASE and it doesn’t effect reviews reviews as much as the human to human interaction does. We are social animals, first and always.

The lack of curtesy and kindness at the human level is the first sign you are being treated like a customer/number and not a “guest”. This will bite them in the pocketbook faster than crowd levels and rides being down. When I spend in excess of 5k on vacation (really the floor these days), I don’t want a Wendy’s drive thru customer interaction, sorry. I loves me a Dave’s Double and a cold Coke after an afternoon of yard work and I don’t begrudge the customer experience (because it is Wendy’s), but I am also not spending the wages of a working class family’s monthly income in that transaction. We had a tatted up CM working in transportation that looked ridiculously hungover driving a bus rip into a family who was taking an extended period of time packing up strollers

I will not say that your experience is invalid, I’ve had challenging experiences in the parks as well. I think broad statements like that are particularly damaging because you are tarnishing the reputations of all cast members, (I know you probably weren’t aiming to do so). In my experience the positives outweigh the negatives by a large margin, and Disneys track record on CM’s is pretty solid.

That being said I think you can go after Disney for letting go of so many during the thick of the pandemic, and how it’s been extremely difficult to replace them, I just wouldn’t go after the CM’s directly, the vast vast majority do an amazing job

 

[BarbLynnM]

As a heads up, I'm currently staying on Disney property.

While I understand the ins and outs of human nature, (everyone has their own unique experience) our interaction with cast members has been nothing short of steller, and believe me when I say I know I can try the patience of a Saint.

Example: Mr. Mongoose started getting really sick abt 5 1/2 days into our 9 day stay. I panicked as we are camping at the Fort, and I can't drive, much less hitch up the camper. Also, we were running low on supplies, so I ordered from Amazon 2 hour delivery for the first time. The guys at the Outpost were wonderful even though I was a complete ditz.

I soon realized the Mr. wouldn't recover by our checkout time, and panicked again. We live in Northern Michigan and it usually takes us about 3 days to get home. I Went back to the Outpost to hopefully get an extension for our stay without having to change locations, and bless it all if the cast member didn't move heaven and earth to make that happen.

The cast members I've interacted with have been, without exception, professional, kind, and fun to meet.

After having read all the horror stories about Genie+, I didn't think I'd get GOTG, etc. BUT it was fairly straightforward, and I scored the trifecta--Ratatouille, GOTG, Rise of the Resistance (fortunately in the early days of our trip)

While it doesn't look good for getting into parks or swimming for the rest of our stay, at least he's getting recovery time, and our more trying days have been made easier by supportive cast members.

It's not Disney's fault the Mr. is sick--he's been a front-line worker and we've known all along it could happen at any time. But I'd have to say, for our money, the magic is alive and well at the Fort and Disney in general.

 

[DCLMP]

True. It's not the majority of people but it's enough people to where Disney is catering to that demographic more and more. On my February and May trips, I noticed WAY more VIP groups than I ever have before, including before the pandemic. There was a point where when I was sitting in ABC Commissary with my mom, every table around us was a VIP group (the guides were sitting with the groups).

I can see that being the only way that demographic would visit the parks. Theme parks probably aren't their normal vacation.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I can see that being the only way that demographic would visit the parks. Theme parks probably aren't their normal vacation.

I agree. I've actually seen people on these forums say that they refuse to visit WDW without doing the VIP tour and I bet a lot of other people feel the same.

 

[Wells Larsen]

They started advertising that G+ is an average of 2-3 rides per day so they could stop having to offer refunds to dissatisfied guests. It’s probably also why they are disabling length of stay pre-purchase of G+—too many people complaining they would not have bought it for 10 days once they find out the first day it has so little benefit in some parks. I think they figure after the first year, people will all be used to it and stop complaining. I hated it at first but have come around because 3 rides without a long wait is better than none. Sad how we are made to feel grateful for paying more for less but it is they way of the world these days.

Just an interesting anecdote. I have/had 10-day tickets with pre-paid G+ on it scheduled for Dec 2022. Something came up and I had to change the dates of my tickets to Dec 2023 (The cast member kept G+ on them during that call).
The next day a cast member first called my wife and then me. She told me that the previous day's Cast member made a mistake and that they had to give me a refund for the G+ as they were not allowing pre-paid G+ it on any tickets beyond 2022. I had heard that one wouldn't be able to purchase G+ beyond 2022, but I never thought they would refuse to have it on tickets purchased before the end of 2022 (to the point they would seek me out to give me a refund)

It made me think that something may fundamentally may change with G+ in the coming year. But who knows.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just an interesting anecdote. I have/had 10-day tickets with pre-paid G+ on it scheduled for Dec 2022. Something came up and I had to change the dates of my tickets to Dec 2023 (The cast member kept G+ on them during that call).
The next day a cast member first called my wife and then me. She told me that the previous day's Cast member made a mistake and that they had to give me a refund for the G+ as they were not allowing pre-paid G+ it on any tickets beyond 2022. I had heard that one wouldn't be able to purchase G+ beyond 2022, but I never thought they would refuse to have it on tickets purchased before the end of 2022 (to the point they would seek me out to give me a refund)

It made me think that something may fundamentally may change with G+ in the coming year. But who knows.

I think that's pretty normal when it comes to changes made on existing tickets or packages. Like let's say you purchased tickets before a price increase, changes made to those tickets usually initiates a system change to charge the new price. It would make sense to me that after the June 8th (wasn't that the date) physically passed any changes to existing tickets may lead to the new rules being applied.

Was there a reason you couldn't change your tickets online to the new date? Like a system block?

 

[Wells Larsen]

I think that's pretty normal when it comes to changes made on existing tickets or packages. Like let's say you purchased tickets before a price increase, changes made to those tickets usually initiates a system change to charge the new price. It would make sense to me that after the June 8th (wasn't that the date) physically passed any changes to existing tickets may lead to the new rules being applied.

Was there a reason you couldn't change your tickets online to the new date? Like a system block?

I just received an error to call when I tried. After an hour on hold, it didn't occur to me to ask why I couldn't change it online.
I think it just surprised me that they actually found it so important that they needed to call me back the day after.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I just received an error to call when I tried. After an hour on hold, it didn't occur to me to ask why I couldn't change it online.
I think it just surprised me that they actually found it so important that they needed to call me back the day after.

Yeah the error was probably the Genie+ existing already. They probably have been told to crack down on it and not to give exceptions on this. Clearly on the CM's side they can retain the Genie+. I think they called because they had to refund you, imagine if you had looked and saw you didn't have Genie+, most would be very upset and an email insufficient as a reasoning, they may have tried to just kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Your point about Genie+ changes is something people have been talking about since the deadline was announced, they definitely are watching Genie+ stuff you're totally right on that.

 

[Wells Larsen]

Yeah the error was probably the Genie+ existing already. They probably have been told to crack down on it and not to give exceptions on this. Clearly on the CM's side they can retain the Genie+. I think they called because they had to refund you, imagine if you had looked and saw you didn't have Genie+, most would be very upset and an email insufficient as a reasoning, they may have tried to just kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Your point about Genie+ changes is something people have been talking about since the deadline was announced, they definitely are watching Genie+ stuff you're totally right on that.

Yea, that's a good point. I would have flipped if it was missing and I hadn't realize they refunded me. Especially if it meant me sitting on hold again for another hour or two. I was happy for the phone call.

 

[lugnut33]

We have bought the one day EP before, and we didn't really need it either, other than on the Minions.

So what you're saying is Universal has enough ride capacity for the crowds it brings in. That doesn't mean there won't be lines for some headline attractions and on extremely buys days, but over all Universal has done a much better job than Disney on managing and satisfying it's guests when it comes to attraction availability. That's played out in the fact that Disney is busy all year long and there are no slow days (except when there's a hurricane). It's just a relentless problem with capacity day in and day out at Disney.

 

[lugnut33]

I've been thinking. Advanced planning on every detail comes with a different set of expectations than when we left more to spontaneous choices. I think part of the magic depended on some adventuresome spirit and spontaneity. The forced requirement for park reservations, the advent of Genie+ and the practical necessity for advanced dining reservations have really depressed spontaneity to the point of risking the magic. Also, for these high prices when added to detailed planning requirements results in an expectation of high quality for what we give. It doesn't always come together and that further damages the experience.

And that is being expressed in the amount of guest confrontations that are happening.

 

[RoseGold]

Last week, I got jackhammered out of bed at the Grand Floridian at 8:23AM, and the Cast Members didn't even apologize. They offered to move me if I came back mid-day to see what they had. Nobody should have been in that room, and they knew it.

I started going to Disney in 2018, and I never got the kind of pixie dust magical treatment I read about on these forums. But, on this trip, the closest we got was a janitor passing out stickers. At this point, Disney is just another hotel/restaurant, and not a well-run one. No one magically moves your bags or picks you up in the bus. G+ was a complete disaster, and I was on these forums in October telling everyone G+ was the best thing ever. I can schlep and Uber like any other trip and get treated way better outside of Orlando, and spend way less.

The extended night hours were the only saving grace for me on this trip. And GOTG. WOW. And meeting the princesses, wow are they incredible. Without those things, I wouldn't go at all. And that's now what I plan to tell anyone who asks. It's sad to me, because I have planned SO many trips for so many over time. Before this trip, I was worrying about whether they would let me renew my AP, and now I'm not sure I want it at all anymore.

 

[RoseGold]

It's just a relentless problem with capacity day in and day out at Disney.

It's also a reliability issue. Especially HS. TOT is half down for months. Mickey, Rockn, ROTR are constantly going down. HS was the worst on my recent trip. When the rides were down, you couldn't book. Rides going down meant G+ shifted people everywhere. And there's just not enough rides to handle all the people there.

 

[Wells Larsen]

Last week, I got jackhammered out of bed at the Grand Floridian at 8:23AM, and the Cast Members didn't even apologize. They offered to move me if I came back mid-day to see what they had. Nobody should have been in that room, and they knew it.

I started going to Disney in 2018, and I never got the kind of pixie dust magical treatment I read about on these forums. But, on this trip, the closest we got was a janitor passing out stickers. At this point, Disney is just another hotel/restaurant, and not a well-run one. No one magically moves your bags or picks you up in the bus. G+ was a complete disaster, and I was on these forums in October telling everyone G+ was the best thing ever. I can schlep and Uber like any other trip and get treated way better outside of Orlando, and spend way less.

The extended night hours were the only saving grace for me on this trip. And GOTG. WOW. And meeting the princesses, wow are they incredible. Without those things, I wouldn't go at all. And that's now what I plan to tell anyone who asks. It's sad to me, because I have planned SO many trips for so many over time. Before this trip, I was worrying about whether they would let me renew my AP, and now I'm not sure I want it at all anymore.

I have gone to WDW many times pre-2016. I was planning on going this year, but had to postpone to 2023. I'm fearful that I will feel the same. I have NEVER had a bad experience or even heard of a bad experience with a cast member prior to this year. Now I hear it and read about it fairly frequently.
Same with the paper Fast Pass+. Never had a bad experience, but now people either love or absolutely hate G+.

 

[lugnut33]

It's also a reliability issue. Especially HS. TOT is half down for months. Mickey, Rockn, ROTR are constantly going down. HS was the worst on my recent trip. When the rides were down, you couldn't book. Rides going down meant G+ shifted people everywhere. And there's just not enough rides to handle all the people there.

That was our experience with HS also. We went back to our resort around 1 pm and I was shocked to see Disney still selling day of tickets to guests. I felt really bad for those people. That day HTofT had 1 shaft working, RnR was down all day, Slinky Dog was down most of the day (no weather issues), MMRRR was down part of the day, and even Alien SS was down for a good chunk of the day. Park was an absolute disaster.

 

[lugnut33]

I have gone to WDW many times pre-2016. I was planning on going this year, but had to postpone to 2023. I'm fearful that I will feel the same. I have NEVER had a bad experience or even heard of a bad experience with a cast member prior to this year. Now I hear it and read about it fairly frequently.
Same with the paper Fast Pass+. Never had a bad experience, but now people either love or absolutely hate G+.

We went last April for the first time in 5 years. We had a blast, but we also didn't let money come in the way of a good time. This trip was way way way more expensive than our last one 5 years ago.