No SLR's but what would you reccomend...

[DisneyGirlie]

for me.
I need a new digital camera that has a fireworks mode, or that is known to take nice pictures of nighttime events such as fireworks, spectromagic, etc.
Yes, I'm willing to play around with it and learn because when I have previously asked this question everyone tells me that no camera can do this, the user can and that I need to learn more on how to use cameras.
I realize this.
I'm in the market for at least a 7MP camera and an optical zoom over 3x.
My budget is $350.
Any help for me?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Just out of curiousity, why "at least 7MP?"

 

[DisneyGirlie]

Because the more MP, the sharper the picture will look if you decide to enlarge it to, for example, poster size.

 

[Anewman]

Because the more MP, the sharper the picture will look if you decide to enlarge it to, for example, poster size.

IF all other things are equal you would be correct, but not all LENSES/SENSORS/PROCESSORS/etc... are created equal.


In other words there are some very bad 7mp camera while there are some very good 4mp cameras, and vice versa.

but for nightime/lower light, the FUJI F series is consedered very good but I do not know the pixel count.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

For most cameras, photographers, and situations, I don't think that you'll really get more usable information going higher than about 3-4 megapixels. Limitations caused by the optics and the technique of the photographer will be the limiting factor, not the resolution. That's not true in all cases, but it is in most.

Camera companies compete on resolution because it's something is easy to quantify and compare. Now that cameras sensor resolutions are often better than the resolving power of their optics, it's not a particularly good comparison measure. I think that you would be better served focusing on low noise levels, high quality optics, and image stabilization ahead of extra megapixels. For fireworks, I would especially focus on cameras with low noise at high ISOs.

I can't help with specific recommendations, but the reviews at DPReview are quite comprehensive. For good night shots, pay special attention to noise levels of photos shot at 800 ISO and above.

 

[woodlandsparty]

You might check out the Canon S3....lots of people on here seem to like it. Reviews on it seem to be good as well. Dell.com has it for $319 right now w/ free shipping.

 

[DisneyGirlie]

oops sorry
forgot to mention that I want something relatively small, not tiny, but just something smaller than the s3.
thanks for suggesting it though.

 

[Jeanne B]

If the S3 is too big for you, you might want to consider one of the latest Canon A6x0 or A7x0 series. Here's a link to a side by side comparison of them.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...0,canon_a640,canon_a700,canon_a710is&show=all

 

[DisneyGirlie]

Thank you for that.
I've been considering the canon a640.
can anyone else tell me what they think of that, if its good?

 

[ukcatfan]

If you are going as high as $350, I think the A710 IS has gone below that mark. It sounds like a pretty nice low light performer. That along with the IS make it hard to beat. If smaller is needed, look at the SD 700 IS. It is from the ELPH line. You give up some manual controls and AAs, but they are very portable.

As for the MP issue, there are a number of experts out there that say the current crop of sensors are about maxxed out and adding MPs over 6MP on the typical P&S sensor does not improve anything and can add more noise. There seem to be some cameras that are performing well over 6MP, but you can look at some and see where this case may be true. It looks like 10MP is the max for non-pro DSLRs. There is bound to be a revolution and new technology around the corner, but for now it seems like 6MP is about all you need. Do not flame me, but I personally feel like Canon does the best job with getting the most out of their cameras. I did just switch to Pentax for my DSLR, but that was for the $$$ and b/c of the in camera IS. Canon was way out my range for what I wanted.

Do not forget this one thing when considering higher MPs:
Higher MPs = Less images per memory card = More hard disk space used = Slower post processing
Some people are using their high MP cameras in the lower MP modes b/c of these concerns.

Good luck with your decision!

Kevin

 

[DisneyGirlie]

oh wow.
thank you for that tidbit about MPs and how much space they take up when storing them.
I might be re-considering my choice then.
I've heard great things about canons, so I might just research them some more.

 

[Groucho]

I'm definitely in the "megapixels are overrated" camp. The biggest problem is noise, Point and Shoot cameras generally use a pretty small sensor, and even at 5mp, you're going to get some serious noise in dark photos at any kind of ISOs. If everything else was equal, I'd definitely choose a 4mp or 5mp camera over a 7mp one. By everything else, I specifically mean the CCD sensor.

I haven't been following PnSs very closely any more, but it does sound like Fuji has a clear lead in getting quality high-ISO results out of their PnS cameras ("SuperCCD") but generally they don't do image stabilization. But since you're after a smaller camera, you'll probably end up with 3x zoom, where IS isn't quite as important. At only 3x, I'd definitely be more concerned with ISO performance over stabilization.

This noise thing is on my mind again as I go through my photos from my old 5mp 12x zoom IS camera, getting picture on my new web site - I'm amazed at just how much noise the pictures had. Often the detail in the photos is not much better than my older 2mp camera, and the noise gives the whole image a rather ugly look.

Did I mention that I HATE image noise?

 

[DisneyGirlie]

okay okay okay...
so the image noise isn't sounding too lovely.
Do you believe canon S3s are better in pretty much all categories?
-less noise
-more zoom
-image stabilization
-capable of good low lighting/nighttime shots
???

 

[ukcatfan]

As a next step, I suggest that you go to a store to try them out yourself. It is hard to tell if you like one over another until you actually use them. Bring your own memory card if you have one. If not, go pick up a $10-15 one to bring with you. Most P&S cameras use SD memory these days. Then bring those pictures back home and look in detail at which camera gives the results you want. Beware, the superzooms are addictive.

A few tips when doing this:
1. Do not be talked into buying anything.
2. Do not believe everything the salespeople say. They may know less than you do and many work on commission.
3. Make sure the sample you are using is in proper working order and that the lens is clean.
4. In store lighting is usually lower than you perceive. If one struggles to lock focus on your tests, then it will probably struggle in actual low light use.
5. Take a note pad with you. It is hard to remember everything after looking at multiple models. It does not hurt to make some notes of what you are looking for before you go to the store.

Kevin

 

[Groucho]

And, as always, remember than nearly every camera on the planet struggles in nighttime photography. The best thing you can do is get some sort of support system - even if only a little $10 tabletop tripod. Then play with some manual settings.

 

[DisneyGirlie]

Thanks for the tips everyone.
I'm still at a real loss at where to begin, but thank you.
I will keep al of your handy hints in mind.

 

[boBQuincy]

It appears your two biggest concerns are fireworks and night parades.
Fireworks are not a problem for a p&s camera as long as it has a manual focus and exposure compensation.

Manual focus, so you can set it to infinity (or thereabouts) so it doesn't take a lot of time to focus and you miss the burst; exposure compensation because the meter will usually overexpose fireworks. I set my p&s to -2 stops and even more would have been better.

Night parades are a problem. I doubt any of us really like lugging a dSLR and a couple of lenses around but... size matters.
In this case, sensor size. Larger sensors gather more light per pixel and allow higher ISO without excessive noise. To support the larger sensor takes a larger, heavier, camera. larger lenses and more $$$. The fast shutter release is also a benefit, as is 2nd curtain flash sync.

I don't blame you for not wanting all that, I don't either, *but* physics is unkind and that's what it takes to get really good photos of night parades.
Be happy with a small p&s, smile when you see me carrying 5 pounds of gear all day, but don't expect to get really good photos of night parades with the small camera.

As for the small p&s, less pixels might be preferable for less noise, if the sensor size is the same. You can usually find this information in the specs. 4 MP is really enough for a 8x10 print, the max size most printers can handle anyway.
I like Canon's small A series cameras (we have two of them), image quality is good for what they are and for what they cost.

 

[DisneyGirlie]

It appears your two biggest concerns are fireworks and night parades.
Fireworks are not a problem for a p&s camera as long as it has a manual focus and exposure compensation.

Manual focus, so you can set it to infinity (or thereabouts) so it doesn't take a lot of time to focus and you miss the burst; exposure compensation because the meter will usually overexpose fireworks. I set my p&s to -2 stops and even more would have been better.

Night parades are a problem. I doubt any of us really like lugging a dSLR and a couple of lenses around but... size matters.
In this case, sensor size. Larger sensors gather more light per pixel and allow higher ISO without excessive noise. To support the larger sensor takes a larger, heavier, camera. larger lenses and more $$$. The fast shutter release is also a benefit, as is 2nd curtain flash sync.

I don't blame you for not wanting all that, I don't either, *but* physics is unkind and that's what it takes to get really good photos of night parades.
Be happy with a small p&s, smile when you see me carrying 5 pounds of gear all day, but don't expect to get really good photos of night parades with the small camera.

As for the small p&s, less pixels might be preferable for less noise, if the sensor size is the same. You can usually find this information in the specs. 4 MP is really enough for a 8x10 print, the max size most printers can handle anyway.
I like Canon's small A series cameras (we have two of them), image quality is good for what they are and for what they cost.

Thank you for all the help!
So are you saying (or is anyone else saying) that for example a canon a640 would be a good camera for fireworks and general shots during the day?

haha I give up on the night parades.

 

[Groucho]

Night parades are a problem. I doubt any of us really like lugging a dSLR and a couple of lenses around but... size matters.

Actually, I kind of do. One of the great joys of a DSLR IMHO is the size and feel, the feel of the focus and zoom rings, the mechanical precision of swapping lenses, the sound of the mirror and shutter movie, etc... the tactile sensations are a big part of the appeal for me. The much improved picture quality doesn't hurt either, but I just love the feel of a real SLR. The process of taking the photos is, to me, sometimes more enjoyable than any other part of the process.

DisneyGirlie, no need to give up on night parades, but just keep your expectations realistic. Since the pictures are free, take them to your heart's content and maybe you'll get a few keepers. Experiment with different ISO levels to see how much noise you're willing to put up with, too.

 

[DisneyGirlie]

Thanks everyone!
Anyone else have any advice on what camera to use?