NO passports needed after all?

[KKB]

They listed the "proposed" changes and said they would be alerting passengers when/if these changes are enacted.
SOOOO for the moment we don't need passports (YEAH) BUT if these regulations are passed, I'm sure DCL will alert us since we disembark 12/32/05!
Have a great day all!
Kristin

 

[MamaKate]

I read everyone saying passports are good for 10-years, but for children under the age of 16, they are only good for 5-YEARS!!

,
Katie

 

[A Sunny Day]

From what is posted here (to read the transcript click here) it indicates it will be law by 2008. Here are some excerpts.

AMBASSADOR HARTY: Well, we've put out a -- we didn't put out a final rule. We've put out, or will within the next several days, publish for comment and listen to affected parties' recommendations they might have. That's precisely why we didn't put out a final rule. We need to know that -- we'd like people to understand we do not believe we have all the wisdom here and if there's something that is a useful suggestion that -- or there is an unintended consequence to something that we've done that we can, in some way, ameliorate, that's what's out there. This is the beginning of a conversation. There's a 60-day comment period. We welcome the comments.

QUESTION: When might the final rule come about, then?

AMBASSADOR HARTY: In the fall. You know, we've sort of -- we'll get it out a little bit faster depending -- or a little bit more slowly depending on how many comments we get.

QUESTION: What are the kind of modifications you could make? I mean, you're not going to change the deadlines, I assume, right? I mean --

AMBASSADOR HARTY: Well, the 2008 deadline is in law, but we just need to be open to what other folks say to us. And as Elaine already mentioned earlier, there are other documents available in addition to the passport and we're -- a little bit of an open mind still until we hear the comments back, until we publish a final rule together and after close consultation and after giving stakeholders an opportunity to comment.

 

[A Sunny Day]

Here is some more...

QUESTION: Just to be clear, those four documents that you were talking about, you say you might consider them. You don't necessarily know if you will; you think that they might be appropriate, but right now, it's just going to be the passport.

MS. DEZENSKI: It's -- well, it's -- you have to put it in the context of the advance notice of proposed rulemaking. Everything is proposed until it's final. So at this point, we're proposing that these four documents would be equivalent and could be utilized. Now, we'll see what kind of comments we get back. We'll see what other types of documentation might be suggested and we'll go from there.

QUESTION: But the three phases are not proposed; that's going to be law, that's going to be --

AMBASSADOR HARTY: 2008 is law.

 

[A Sunny Day]

The four cards they are referring to are in addition to a passport for those who frequently travel by land to and or from the bordering countries.

It doesn't read in my view that the passport requirement for the Caribbean will be changed. The discussions seemed to focus on the land crossings.

 

[jgalecpa]

The articles I read about it yesterday don't paint a very flattering picture of our president, unfortunately.

"Hey, you're gonna need passports to go to Canada."
"Really? I signed that? Dang."

Meh. .

I'm sorry, but this shows you do not understand the difference between Laws and Rules.

Congress Passes Bills. They become law if the President Signs it or his veto is overidden.

Agencies and Departments pass rules or regulations. The President does not sign them, nor can he possibly be expected to see each one before it becomes operational.

There is a very precise process, including comment period, from the time a regulation is proposed until it becomes "Final".

Any regulation proposed can be overturned by an act of Congress or can be stopped in its tracks during or after its finalization period.

A good example was a few years back some idiot in the IRS proposed that people whose children were kidnapped could no longer be considered dependents of their parents since they were no longer living at home.

As soon as some ideas see the light of day, or the press gets wind of them, they die of their own stupidity.

So, Dang, the President didn't sign this "rule".

Meh.

Jim

PS The President couldn't require Passports to go TO Canada, only to return FROM Canada.

Meh

 

[jlowejd5]

double post. my bad.

 

[jlowejd5]

I'm not going make this into a thing, but I understand the difference okay. I did go to law school and all.

From the "Intelligence Reform And Terrorism Prevention Act", signed into law by Bush on 12/17/2004, Section 7209:
"(b) PASSPORTS.—
(1) DEVELOPMENT OF PLAN.—The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall develop and implement a plan as expeditiously as possible to require a passport or other document, or combination of documents, deemed by the Secretary of Homeland Security to be sufficient to denote identity and citizenship, for all travel into the United States by United States citizens and [jargon meaning 'everybody else']. This plan shall be implemented not later than January 1, 2008 [...].
(2) REQUIREMENT TO PRODUCE DOCUMENTATION.—The plan developed under paragraph (1) shall require all United States citizens [and everybody else], to carry and produce the documentation described in paragraph (1) when traveling from foreign countries into the United States."

The law mandates this 'plan'. That the specifics are left up to Homeland Security is irrelevant. That was my original point. I don't expect the president to have read all 250 pages of the law, but for him to act surprised that it was in there makes him look bad.

But this has nothing to do with DCL, really, so I'll hush now.

 

[musicgirl]

Kristin, I agree with you 100%. If having BC are all that is required and are not delaying you, why spend the money!!! For about the same amount of money, I could upgrade my planned $45 per person excursion to the really cool one for $150-The jet ski ride to snorkeling (which I could never justify spending $450 on).

And planning for the next 10 years, I also foresee 6-06 as our last "big vacation for many years. We have already budgeted very carefully for this trip by "paying" each month. Plus, since I've already spent ds's 1st year of college on the last one, I'd better get saving!!! Especially since there really wasn't a fund anyway!!!

No but seriously, he'll be in high school for the next 4 years and then college afterwards, so there will be no cruises (sadly) beyond this next one. Unless as Kristen said, someone picks up the tab or I win the lotto!!!!

I know,I know passports are nice to have but for $300 for us, right now is not a necessity. I will leave it up to DCL to give me the notification that we have to have them. And as MamaKate just posted, under 16 yrs is only good for 5 years!!! EEK!

 

[imitationcrab2000]

$60 x 2 for the wife & my passports will just be a drop in the bucket for what we are already paying for in the Disney Cruise.

With the fact that you need a passport to get in & out of Canada these days, I’d rather play it safe & just spend the $200 on the passports so that we could be pro-active & prevent and possible hassles in Mexico.

Sure we don’t need them now, but like other posters have stated, they are good for 10 years & I’ve been learning that our gov’t rules are constantly changing for the sake of national security.

The prime example is that my job when I 1st got into it just 2 years ago has so heavily changed since then. Back then we required tax information and citizenship docs just to complete certain verification issues. Nowadays we are expected to report anything out of the norm. We were never meant to police these things, now we are expected.

Our cruise isn’t until may 27th, I’d rather not find out the last moment that I’m all of the sudden required to have a passport and end up dropping even more money to speed up the process of getting a passport.

 

[Aisling]

Meh

You guys crack me up!

 

[travel with kids]

Members of my family have passports, however we will be cruising with my DBIL and his family and they do not. DU send us an e-mail on 4/8/05 advising us to purchase passports for our feb. 2006 cruise. I replied to DU with the same questions that are on this thread and others that have been posted. This is their reply:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From : Regina Hinrichs <regina@dreamsunlimitedtravel.com>
Reply-To : regina@dreamsunlimitedtravel.com
Sent : Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:30 PM
To : ********
Subject : RE: New Government Document Regulations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi Lee,
First, I apologize for not responding earlier. I hurt my back and am just
starting to get back on the computer.

As far as we know, everyone will need passports when cruising in 2006. You
still have some time if you prefer to wait and see if it changes, but for
now, it does appear that they will need them.

Again, I am sorry that I was unable to respond sooner.

Regina




I then called DCL and they gave me the same blank answer "currently, no passports are needed, however we are recommending passports for those crusing after 12/31/05".

We still have time to decide, but why is this so confusing? When will there be a solid answer?

 

[imitationcrab2000]

Members of my family have passports, however we will be cruising with my DBIL and his family and they do not. DU send us an e-mail on 4/8/05 advising us to purchase passports for our feb. 2006 cruise. I replied to DU with the same questions that are on this thread and others that have been posted. This is their reply:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From : Regina Hinrichs <regina@dreamsunlimitedtravel.com>
Reply-To : regina@dreamsunlimitedtravel.com
Sent : Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:30 PM
To : ********
Subject : RE: New Government Document Regulations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi Lee,
First, I apologize for not responding earlier. I hurt my back and am just
starting to get back on the computer.

As far as we know, everyone will need passports when cruising in 2006. You
still have some time if you prefer to wait and see if it changes, but for
now, it does appear that they will need them.

Again, I am sorry that I was unable to respond sooner.

Regina




I then called DCL and they gave me the same blank answer "currently, no passports are needed, however we are recommending passports for those crusing after 12/31/05".

We still have time to decide, but why is this so confusing? When will there be a solid answer?

THANKS FOR THE REAL ANSWER!

 

[ljql_5969]

Is this a real answer though? I am still hearing all kinds of dates.

 

[Rence]

Based on my reading Regina from DU has the correct answer.

Passports are not required in 2005

Current proposed regulations require them for Carribean cruises in 2006. The regulation is proposed, because it has not taken effect yet. There is a chance that this could change. As the rules stand now passports required for cruises to carribean countries in 2006, as this is where DCL cruises to, it would follow that passports would be required for DCL in 2006.

I think that DCL is playing it safe. If they told a customer now that passports were required for 2006 and that customer spent a bunch of money on passports and then the rules changed, they would be mad at DCL. DCL is saying recommended at this time to encourage people to get them with the recognition that there is a strong chance that they will be required in 2006 but it is not absolutely certain.

If you are cruising in 2005, make your own decision on passports, good idea, not required.

If you are cruising in 2006, pay attention. You may need to get passports. See where the regulations stand about three months before you cruise to give yourself plenty of time to get a passport. It would be a good idea to get them anyway, but if cost is an issue, you can wait and see.

If you are cruising in 2006 you should not take anything that anyone has said as indicating that you absolutely will not need passports. At this point DCL is recommending it. As 2006 grows closer, that may change to required.

 

[RealMickeysGirl]

We got our passports for going on the Magic last week. Made it really easy to step up and make the reservations for a Dec 2006 trip. As I told my husband "We already have the passports". Of course, then I asked him when we were going to Austraila.

There is just the two of us though - I can see where it could be a really big financial hardship on someone with kids - especially since there are so many other things to spend your money on once you get on the cruise.

Maybe someone will explain this to the government committee that is coming up with this and they will let the BC be enough for children under a certain age - since the passports only last 5 years anyway. That way adults could have the extra security of a passport for re-entry to the US and give the parents of small children a break. I haven't run into any 2 year old terrorists lately, have you