No more virtual items on Ebay

[4orm]

People sell 'second life' property, World of Warcraft items, Sims stuff... all these things are part of those virtual worlds. I can't see all of it getting banned by ebay.

 

[Xpdtion-futureWDI]

I
if you are saying once item gets into the game then I agree with you. If you are saying the physical cards with codes then, yes you do own them and as such can do with them what you want.

I'm saying the items in the game. I'm fine with people selling the quest cards, VMK Pin Series pins, etc.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Can you imagine the backlash Disney would get if it sued some single mother struggling to take care of two kids because she sold a few VMK items? I would love to see that. Front page of the New York Times: "Multi-trillion dollar corporation sues single-mom waitress"

Umm... It's been done many times. Maybe not by Disney, but it has been done. If a single mom waitress was breaking copywrite laws, The person(s) that owns that copywrite has every right to sue. No matter how big or how small the owner is.

I don't see ebay really enforcing this rule. They might to some degree, but heck, they still let bootleggers sell tons of stuff there. As long as the person receiving the item is happy, then ebay will do nothing about it.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

CT - yes, it has been done. Paramount did a huge crackdown on Star Trek Fansites, and watched the next movie and next series completely tank. Payback is a you know what.... Paramount found that out the hard way. They also issued an apology and offered to help the fansites get started back up again.

anyway, what I am really talking about is when they go after people in the grey area like VMK, there would be a huge backlash... especially since juries absolutely hate when moster conglomerates pick on the little guy.

 

[Maleficent2]

Umm... It's been done many times. Maybe not by Disney, but it has been done. If a single mom waitress was breaking copywrite laws, The person(s) that owns that copywrite has every right to sue. No matter how big or how small the owner is.

I don't see ebay really enforcing this rule. They might to some degree, but heck, they still let bootleggers sell tons of stuff there. As long as the person receiving the item is happy, then ebay will do nothing about it.

we are not talking about copywrite law here...selling a item that for all intents and purposes is yours to sell does not break any copywrite law that I am aware of.

Now making an exact copy of VMK would but that is not what we are talking about here.

 

[Tiggerholic]

There are so many other issues with eBay that they say they are going to enforce, but when it comes down to it, eBay always turns a blind eye. I have been involved in a dispute, for almost 2 months, over a digital camera I bought that the seller claimed had a warranty. Well, after calling the manufacturer, I was promptly told that I had a warranty ONLY if the seller was an "Authorized Dealer" and of course they are not. To top it off, eBay came out and said they were going to "crack down" on excessive shipping charges... HA .. still waiting on that dispute as well... shipping charge of $29.95 when actual cost was $9.80

eBay loves to make claims that they are going to change various TOS and other various things, but they NEVER follow through with it!!

Finally, the eBay and VMK cards contest, I was apart of handing out over 300 donated cards. Had it not been for that contest and having someone "gift" me with some cards, I NEVER would have known about VMK and never would have met so many wonderful friends

Lyn

 

[darkacre]

Doesn't matter if they make big bucks for sellers and eBay, it's still illegal. I'm surprised Disney/VMK hasn't taken more action on thismatter.

ORLY? What law might you be referring to here?

 

[Xpdtion-futureWDI]

ORLY? What law might you be referring to here?

The law about you can't sell something you don't own.

 

[Nanoer]

The law about you can't sell something you don't own.

What country's law is this again? Because technically I could buy Sealand(the country for sale off the coast of GB) and make the law that you don't have to own something to sell it and it would be okay to do that from my country.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Technically, if you REALLY want to get into the nitty gritty of the law (I was a paralegal for 5 years and have studied copyright law extensively for one of my businesses) in this instance, you are not actually selling the item. what you are selling is the right of transfer and use within the game of VMK, you are not actually selling any physical item, not breaking any copyright law by reproducing copyrighted images. The right to use and transfer the in-game item has been specifically granted to you by VMK, therefore it is well within your LEGAL rights to do whatever you wish with it, which includes the transfer of said use to another. Why you transfer it is your business and yours alone. VMK can revoke your rights to use and transfer at will, as they are within their right to do so for whatever reason since they actually own the game and all the images and pixels and accounts. It is a fact that you do not "own" the item, but you are not removing the item from VMK, so you are not actually "selling" their property since you did not transfer ownership of their property. Really, I could go on and write an entire dissertation on it, but it is hard enough to translate into laymans terms as it is.

Bottom line, it is not illegal, it does not violate copyrights, there is nothing, legally, anyone can do to you for using ebay or any other auction site or website to sell the right of transfer of an ingame item or account to another person. What they CAN do is ban your account, your IP, your shockwave, whatever since it DOES in fact violate the terms of service everyone agrees to when logging into VMK for the first time.

 

[Disney Dreams]

if you are saying once item gets into the game then I agree with you. If you are saying the physical cards with codes then, yes you do own them and as such can do with them what you want.

Agreed. The card is your property to do with what you please. The virtual item in VMK, is not.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Agreed. The card is your property to do with what you please. The virtual item in VMK, is not.

But it still isnt illegal, just against VMK values. And it is because you never remove the ownership of the item from VMK, they still own it, it never leaves the game. You are simply moving the item within the game from one space to another, an ability they have put into the game and granted to each and every account.

 

[Disney Dreams]

But it still isnt illegal, just against VMK values. And it is because you never remove the ownership of the item from VMK, they still own it, it never leaves the game. You are simply moving the item within the game from one space to another, an ability they have put into the game and granted to each and every account.

Illegal? No. Violation of a contract and therefore, enforceable. Why? You as a VMK player "signed" an agreement stating you would not do so. Therefore - you are breaking a legal contract.

 

[Nanoer]

Illegal? No. Violation of a contract and therefore, enforceable. Why? You as a VMK player "signed" an agreement stating you would not do so. Therefore - you are breaking a legal contract.

But you could say someone else signed up for the account and gave it to you. You could say you had no clue about it and was not informed of it by either. In court there would be no proving you created it originally because it's so easy to change IPs. Heck you can make it at the parks so Disney would file a lawsuit against itself..?

 

[Disney Dreams]

But you could say someone else signed up for the account and gave it to you. You could say you had no clue about it and was not informed of it by either. In court there would be no proving you created it originally because it's so easy to change IPs. Heck you can make it at the parks so Disney would file a lawsuit against itself..?

You COULD say a lot of things. You could say you were abducted by aliens if you wanted, but you would still be in violation of a legal agreement.

A basic analogy would be someone who does something wrong and gets a ban. They CAN find a way to work around that ban OR they can accept that they did something wrong and accept the consequences.

If you agree to a set of rules, follow them or take the consequences. It's really pretty simple.

 

[Nanoer]

You COULD say a lot of things. You could say you were abducted by aliens if you wanted, but you would still be in violation of a legal agreement.

A basic analogy would be someone who does something wrong and gets a ban. They CAN find a way to work around that ban OR they can accept that they did something wrong and accept the concequences.

If you agree to a set of rules, follow them or take the consequences. It's really pretty simple.

What about break them anyway and not have consequences?

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Illegal? No. Violation of a contract and therefore, enforceable. Why? You as a VMK player "signed" an agreement stating you would not do so. Therefore - you are breaking a legal contract.

Not legally enforcible. They "enforcibility" of said "contract" is in the course of termination: ie banning. and thats it. It is not a "contract" as you put it, but a Service Agreement, which is typically not enforcible in a court of law as such. Seeing as you do not pay them and they do not pay you, there is no loss for either party. In order for it to be a legal contract, there must be a physical signing with a witness, and the witness should be a notary public or in the presence of counsel. (Note: many lawyers are certified Notaries also, saves time). Trust me, my father is a property rights lawyer (retired) who for the last 15 years has taught at a local University. For 5 years I worked for him as a paralegal. I also own a small business which deals with copyrighted materials and I normally do my own legal work in that matter. I have studied this field intensively. The hardest part is breaking it down into words most people can understand.

Bottom line (again): selling VMK ingame items on ebay is not in violation of any civil or criminal statute. It does not violate any contract or other binding legal documentation. It IS against VMK values and therefore in violation of the VMK Terms of Service. The harshest penalty which can be given for a violation of said Terms of Service is the revocation of the Service (banning)

 

[mtlhddoc2]

You COULD say a lot of things. You could say you were abducted by aliens if you wanted, but you would still be in violation of a legal agreement.

A basic analogy would be someone who does something wrong and gets a ban. They CAN find a way to work around that ban OR they can accept that they did something wrong and accept the consequences.

If you agree to a set of rules, follow them or take the consequences. It's really pretty simple.

again, it is NOT a legal agreement. There is nothing legal or binding about it. If there was, an unfair or mistaken ban would wind up getting Disney sued.

Leave the legal stuff to the legal eagles please

 

[Disney Dreams]

...It is not a "contract" as you put it, but a Service Agreement, which is typically not enforcible in a court of law as such....

Yes, "Agreement" is the word I was wanting to use, not "contract."

As for your comment about leaving the law to the legal eagles, I was not attempting to handle the law. I was trying to explain that just because something is not illegal, does not mean it is okay.

I would also like to add that I did not appreciate your comment. I am happily not a lawyer, but that does not mean that I do not understand the law. With many lawyers in the family, I have been a part of many discussions regarding legal issues.

Bottom line: We agree. Selling VMK items IS a violation of the user agreement and can be subject to consequences if Disney so chooses.

 

[Nanoer]

Yes, "Agreement" is the word I was wanting to use, not "contract."

As for your comment about leaving the law to the legal eagles, I was not attempting to handle the law. I was trying to explain that just because something is not illegal, does not mean it is okay.

I would also like to add that I did not appreciate your comment. I am happily not a lawyer, but that does not mean that I do not understand the law. With many lawyers in the family, I have been a part of many discussions regarding legal issues.

Bottom line: We agree. Selling VMK items IS a violation of the user agreement and can be subject to consequences if Disney so chooses.

But what are the consequences? Lawsuit or banning from VMK?