NO MORE free valet parking for DVC members.

[BWV Dreamin]

Occam's Razor suggests almost all of it. First, even current members mostly have no idea of many of these issues---just listen to the conversations around the resort pool, and it's clear that most Members have never *visited* disboards, let alone read all these threads.

Second, on balance, the overall attitude of the DVC discussion, even here in this little corner of the Internet, is overwhemlingly positive. Every other day, there's an "Is DVC Worth It" post---almost all of the responses boil down to "I should have done it sooner". There are a few who aren't happy about this or that, for good or ill reason. But, on balance, a third-party observer would conclude that even here, DVC is viewed more positively than not.

I don't buy the notion few people view the Internet for DVC info/opinions. While few may post, many read and Google. People are more informed than you think.

 

[crisi]

How many people has this board talked out of DVC? I've seen people come here who were bad fits for the program...and we didn't talk them out of it. Even when someone comes on here with "I'm about to buy but all of these complaints about (availability/room cleanliness/ how DVC treats members) are making me nervous" turn into three pages of people saying "don't worry, those are the exceptions."

The ratio of people saying "hey, it isn't all roses" has gone up since I first joined this board. When I first joined I could count on one hand the people willing to answer "should I buy?" with "it isn't for everyone" - now I think I can fill two hands. But its still a minority compared to the "I only wish I'd have bought sooner/best purchase of my life/you can't go wrong" crowd.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

How many people has this board talked out of DVC? I've seen people come here who were bad fits for the program...and we didn't talk them out of it. Even when someone comes on here with "I'm about to buy but all of these complaints about (availability/room cleanliness/ how DVC treats members) are making me nervous" turn into three pages of people saying "don't worry, those are the exceptions."

The ratio of people saying "hey, it isn't all roses" has gone up since I first joined this board. When I first joined I could count on one hand the people willing to answer "should I buy?" with "it isn't for everyone" - now I think I can fill two hands. But its still a minority compared to the "I only wish I'd have bought sooner/best purchase of my life/you can't go wrong" crowd.

I don't think we should assume DISboards, a very friendly, pro Disney site, is the only place people find information about Disney.

I think it's hard to tell how many people read, and do not buy. My guess is the likely purchasers are more likely to actually post.

MG

 

[disneynutz]

How many people has this board talked out of DVC? I've seen people come here who were bad fits for the program...and we didn't talk them out of it. Even when someone comes on here with "I'm about to buy but all of these complaints about (availability/room cleanliness/ how DVC treats members) are making me nervous" turn into three pages of people saying "don't worry, those are the exceptions."

The ratio of people saying "hey, it isn't all roses" has gone up since I first joined this board. When I first joined I could count on one hand the people willing to answer "should I buy?" with "it isn't for everyone" - now I think I can fill two hands. But its still a minority compared to the "I only wish I'd have bought sooner/best purchase of my life/you can't go wrong" crowd.

Most folks won't publicly admit that DVC was a bad decision or that it has lost it's shine. Contracts currently being put on the resale market are partially a result of this.

Personally, I would like to see more of Disney's attention spent on the Membership, maintaining the resorts, and improving communication.

Saving money on our rooms currently makes DVC a good fit for us, so for now, we are owners at 5 resorts and we vacation at WDW 2 or 3 times per year.

Bill

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don't think we should assume DISboards, a very friendly, pro Disney site, is the only place people find information about Disney.

I think it's hard to tell how many people read, and do not buy. My guess is the likely purchasers are more likely to actually post.

MG

There are plenty of other boards to visit to get various opinions about DVC. Some are more monitored than others, thus regulating what actually gets posted. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they(negative posts) don't exist.

 

[BUDDYBEAR]

I hope this is not true

 

[Dean]

My guess about the next DVC "Perk" to disappear.....?

Free internet service for DVC members.

I didn't know about the valet parking loss until we checked in yesterday. (Unfortunately, I let the BW staff know that I was "irritated". Not their fault. I apologized.)

I do not understand how some members have no problem with the erosion of perks. Are they part of some form of management group that decides that "outsourcing" is good for them?

We joined DVC in 2002 with the belief that perks were some kind of benefit. I pay almost $2000 a year for maintenance fees.

DVC is a big disappointment to me now.

I will let them know this week while I am here. (Like I think they care about my opinion. )

I would be surprised, the internet wasn't free initially to members but it's cheap in relative terms, there is a major economy of scale, it's used by a larger % of owners, it's often considered an expected option at a resort (I know some still charge but not that many) and it's subsidized by cash guests and exchangers.

Yup... BUT, they didn't start reducing benefits, closing PI, cutting back fireworks, etc.. in those 10 years. It has really come to light in the last year.

Prior to the past year I believe things were indeed pretty rosy, and prospective members read the good reviews..

MG

As I noted, it will likely have some effect as do the positive things that get posted here and elsewhere. However, I think you overestimate the amount of preplanning and investigation that goes into such a purchase for the majority of people and I think you overestimate the ability of many individuals to help themselves no matter what they see or hear. You still see people buying to use for CC, DCL and exchanging and if they can't look at the hard facts against those choices and move on, minor issues that no one thinks about going in aren't going to stop them.

To look at it another way, I think that many who feel that complaints and negative posts will have much of an effect are overestimating the importance of a given member in the big scheme of things. How many people did we see post early in this thread that portrayed the idea that they'd complain and DVC would actually re-think this decision based on those individual complaints or even the aggregate complaints. They were, IMO, overestimating their own importance.

 

[DebbieB]

I hope this is not true

The end of free valet parking? There have been many first hand reports that it is true.

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't buy the notion few people view the Internet for DVC info/opinions

How many people post on this site regularly? A few hundred? How many more read it. A factor of 10? A factor of 20? So, a few thousand or two.

How many members are there? (Hint: a lot more.)

Even if you don't buy that back-of-the-envelope calculation, the simple observation around the pool should tell you all you need to know. At least half the conversations you hear, and probably more, clearly demonstrate that the conversants fail to understand some fundamental piece of their Memberships.

 

[bumbershoot]

There are plenty of other boards to visit to get various opinions about DVC. Some are more monitored than others, thus regulating what actually gets posted. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they(negative posts) don't exist.

I hope this is not true

The end of free valet parking? There have been many first hand reports that it is true.

I got the feeling that buddybear was reacting to the idea that the dis erases negative posts about DVC.

 

[tjkraz]

You're right.. Nobody ever researches on the Internet before a major purchase. It truly is a wasted resource.
Instead, people will go to the corner store and buy a Consumer Reports magazine. While they are there they ask around the other customers for word of mouth opinions on DVC, automobiles, colleges, etc..
We all know word of mouth is very important for business. Thank goodness for the corner store, because nobody uses the most powerful word of mouth tool of all time.. the Internet.
Bad publicity for a company? Don't worry.. Just put it on the information highway we call the Internet. Nobody will read it there.

On Amazon.com nearly 1300 people have reviewed a popular model of the iPod Touch. Of those 1300 reviews almost 10% (121 reviewers) gave it a poor rating of just one or two stars. Complaints ranged from iPods being overpriced to obscure technical problems to total hardware failures.

In spite of those very public complaints, the iPod Touch is considered a groundbreaking product which has helped propel Apple to record financial growth in a time when other companies are simply struggling to stay afloat.

You're right--many people do go to the Internet to research a purchase like DVC. But people realize that no product is universally praised. This isn't like the old Consumer Reports days when you had a single black & white product score to fall back on--when you solicit feedback from 1300 people you're going to get a wide range of opinions. But the existence of negative feedback does not mean that the product should be ignored, nor that my experiences will reflect those cons.

IMO, something like the point reallocation is more likely to have an impact on DVC sales. Of course that impact could be positive or negative depending upon one's intended travel patterns. By comparison, I don't see DVC losing a lot of sales over this valet parking issue. Many people wouldn't valet park anyway. Those who do are used to paying for it at Disney resorts. (Doesn't make much sense to forego DVC on those grounds since they will be paying for valet either way.)

Any derogatory comments regarding DVC management are among the first to be disregarded by potential buyers. That's part of your 10% bad iPod reviews--the "Steve Jobs is a greedy ***" component. People who have made the intellectual or emotional decision to buy DVC aren't going to be swayed by a handful of message board posters who have negative opinions of Jim Lewis or who--in true Chicken Little style--warn that "your favorite perk could be next!"

I don't begrudge current members who are displeased with certain changes DVC has made and decide to move on. That's certainly their prerogative. But I also think those who claim this sort of move will harm the DVC product as a whole are not looking at the big picture. At its core DVC is a product which allows guests to stay on-site for pennies on the dollar over the long haul. DVC has no competition in that market, which makes buyers willing to overlook some potential warts along the way.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The only change that I witnessed a reversal on from DVD due to complaints (both from the DIS and emails/phone calls was the studio glasswares change. That did get reversed. What was the impact that forced the change? Why has nothing else been reversed?

I would be surprised, the internet wasn't free initially to members but it's cheap in relative terms, there is a major economy of scale, it's used by a larger % of owners, it's often considered an expected option at a resort (I know some still charge but not that many) and it's subsidized by cash guests and exchangers.

As I noted, it will likely have some effect as do the positive things that get posted here and elsewhere. However, I think you overestimate the amount of preplanning and investigation that goes into such a purchase for the majority of people and I think you overestimate the ability of many individuals to help themselves no matter what they see or hear. You still see people buying to use for CC, DCL and exchanging and if they can't look at the hard facts against those choices and move on, minor issues that no one thinks about going in aren't going to stop them.

To look at it another way, I think that many who feel that complaints and negative posts will have much of an effect are overestimating the importance of a given member in the big scheme of things. How many people did we see post early in this thread that portrayed the idea that they'd complain and DVC would actually re-think this decision based on those individual complaints or even the aggregate complaints. They were, IMO, overestimating their own importance.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I do not understand how some members have no problem with the erosion of perks. Are they part of some form of management group that decides that "outsourcing" is good for them?

I guess you've noticed how there are a few people here who will defend nearly every change that DVC makes as totally justifiable. It's like that on almost every message board that there is.

 

[Chuck S]

I guess you've noticed how there are a few people here who will defend nearly every change that DVC makes as totally justifiable. It's like that on almost every message board that there is.

There are also a lot of people that don't seem to have read their POS and purchase agreements, and feel "entitled" to things not described in the documents. While DVC certainly sells because of an emotional factor, it is at its core a purchase of a interest in a limited lease timeshare, nothing more.

Certain rights are guaranteed in those contracts, perks are not. Perks have been changing, cycling between more and less, since my purchase in 1992. I would expect that to continue. I also expect Disney/DVC to fulfill their legal obligations under the purchase documents...those obligations basically are to maintain the resorts, allow me to book based upon availability, adjust point charts if deemed necessary to balance demand, and maintain the rooms with furnishings of similar functions and quality as what was represented at time of purchase, allowing for scheduled upgrades with improving and less costly technology. Those are things to which we are entitled under our contracts. The glassware mentioned by BWV Dreamin is such a furnishing.

Perks on the other hand are not entitlements, they are temporary discounts and "freebies" that may be granted without notification for an unspecified time period.

The AP discount, which I use, could disappear tomorrow. I know that, so I enjoy it while it is available. When it disappears, I'll miss it, but that is the way it is with perks. It has no direct bearing on my ownership.

Other perks that could disappear...dining discounts, new attraction previews, discounted golf/mini-golf/water park/DQ admissions and many more.

If you have purchased DVC based upon perks, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I guess you've noticed how there are a few people here who will defend nearly every change that DVC makes as totally justifiable. It's like that on almost every message board that there is.

And there are a few people who think perks can and should never change! Perks are just that....a bonus to your membership. Frankly, we are all lucky we get "perks"! Lots of other timeshares give you nothing more than the chance to use your timeshare and pay dues!

 

[MELSMICE]

I hope this is not true

It's 100% true. I was at BCV & BWV a few weeks ago & was informed of the change when we wanted to valet park.

 

[dianeschlicht]

My guess about the next DVC "Perk" to disappear.....?

Free internet service for DVC members.

I will let them know this week while I am here. (Like I think they care about my opinion. )

See, and I figure Free internet is there IN PLACE of free valet. We paid for internet up until a couple years ago. Either way...the few bucks I'd spend on either one isn't going to make or break a Disney trip for me.

 

[Kathy C]

We've been members since 2000 w/300 pts at BWV and the "free" valet parking didn't play into our decision to buy at all. I'd much rather have the discounted AP passes!

 

[tjkraz]

I guess you've noticed how there are a few people here who will defend nearly every change that DVC makes as totally justifiable. It's like that on almost every message board that there is.

It's not about defending, Rob, it's simply understanding the nature of the product. It's about having realistic expectations going forward.

If perks were static, we wouldn't have gained the AP discount back in 2005 or Internet service in '08. Some changes will work in our favor and others will not.

 

[jade1]

It's not about defending, Rob, it's simply understanding the nature of the product. It's about having realistic expectations going forward.

If perks were static, we wouldn't have gained the AP discount back in 2005 or Internet service in '08. Some changes will work in our favor and others will not.

I think some are talking "perks", and some are talking "changes". Kind of the same but, not really. To me a perk would be 3 FP's a day on DVC stays for example. Pre-paid valet would be not be a perk IMO. I think some of us prefer a more inclusive (pre-paid) membership and are willing to pay for it-not an entitlement. Some have pointed out we should expect to stare at 4 walls and nothing more-well that explains the importance of a good view anyway.

By the way, if perks were static, wouldn't we all have no charge AP's? I thought those were included in the beginning.