NO MORE free valet parking for DVC members.

[Galls]

Another part of our wdw vacationing that we have grown to love and become accustomed to is NOT driving while on vacation.

Move to Brooklyn, where it is a Disney vacation year round!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

When analyzing the way disney has made their vacations "more affordable" and very "all inclusive" in keeping guests completely on-property, I sometimes wonder if all of the things they have done, they done so as to get people (especially new disney vacationers and dvc members) used to certain style of vacationing in disney and now that they have us hooked, they will slowly take the wonderful perks away. For example, when we first began vacationing to wdw, the dining plan included the appetizer and the gratuity. We got used to dining at disney's restaurants and when they changed the ddp, we continued to use it and began paying the higher costs and receiving less (less food and less quality). Also, IMO, the food has become very standardized across the board.
Another part of our wdw vacationing that we have grown to love and become accustomed to is NOT driving while on vacation. We enjoy using the ME service, the luggage service, and the on-property transportation. If disney slowly took those things away, we would still want them because these are the things we've become accustomed to and disney knows that we will pay another 3% of our vacation to have it.
For many of you, valet parking (especially at bwv) has become a part of your vacationing and I wonder if disney assumes that people will continue the service even with an added cost.
Many different businesses and industries are practicing this: give less and charge more (airline baggage fees....) I just hope that the big wigs in the disney company stop behaving selfishly, realize that Walt wouldn't be making poor guest-relation decisions such as these, and also come to realize that dvc members are loyal costumers and very important to the continued success of wdw.

The problem as I see it would be the difficulty in attracting new customers/guests. Word of diminished services gets around very quickly in recent years due to the Internet. People seem to check everything out ahead of time with a quick Google search.

MG

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

The problem as I see it would be the difficulty in attracting new customers/guests. Word of diminished services gets around very quickly in recent years due to the Internet. People seem to check everything out ahead of time with a quick Google search.

MG

I totally agree.

When we bought DVC (TIMESHARE), we were looking for complaints. It wouldn't have taken many complaints for us to decide against it!

 

[tjkraz]

The problem as I see it would be the difficulty in attracting new customers/guests. Word of diminished services gets around very quickly in recent years due to the Internet. People seem to check everything out ahead of time with a quick Google search.

MG

That may be one of the benefits of the Internet but it's also one of its
weaknesses. These days it isn't hard to find a certain element--either fringe or mainstream--which openly (and loudly) dislikes every major product and company in existence.

There are people who hate Microsoft and people who hate Apple. Yet consumers still continue to buy Xboxes and iPhones.

There are people who hate Dell, Sony, HP, McDonald's, GE, Disney...the list goes on and on. If consumers used the Internet as chapter-and-verse on which manufacturers and products to avoid, our economy would have come to a screeching halt years ago.

The average consumer who is discovering DVC for the first time will still find a breakeven point in the 7-9 year range for a new resort purchase. They'll see the "ownership" aspect of a DVC purchase coupled with the ability to return year-after-year. In many cases they see the same resorts they've grown to love as frequently Disney guests (BoardWalk, Contemporary, Grand Californian, etc.)

I think it's a stretch to suggest that charging for valet parking is going to have any significant impact on the finances of a DVC purchase, or that Average Joe will view this as a sign that they should avoid doing business with Disney Vacation Club.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I think it's a stretch to suggest that charging for valet parking is going to have any significant impact on the finances of a DVC purchase, or that Average Joe will view this as a sign that they should avoid doing business with Disney Vacation Club.

I agree it's a stretch for anyone to decide against purchasing based on any ONE factor... But, add the new booking rules, diminished housekeeping and maintenance, and other common complaints, and there may be a problem.

I realize you, or anyone reading this, may not have had any problems with the items I listed above. That said, when somebody new researches and reads several people did have problem with them, it doesn't sit well.

MG

 

[Dean]

The problem as I see it would be the difficulty in attracting new customers/guests. Word of diminished services gets around very quickly in recent years due to the Internet. People seem to check everything out ahead of time with a quick Google search.

MG

In general I think this issue is over rated. I'm sure some would be influenced but only a minority. In timeshare purchases it's unusual for people to check them out ahead of time, it happens but not nearly as much as you'd think though maybe more with DVC than most. I've even seen people buy retail when they were told repeatedly they could buy resale for 10¢ on the dollar and get the exact same thing.

 

[DebbieB]

In general I think this issue is over rated. I'm sure some would be influenced but only a minority. In timeshare purchases it's unusual for people to check them out ahead of time, it happens but not nearly as much as you'd think though maybe more with DVC than most. I've even seen people buy retail when they were told repeatedly they could buy resale for 10¢ on the dollar and get the exact same thing.

I agree. I've been a member 10 years, it was only OKW and BWV when I bought. There are always complaints and it never stopped DVC from growing by leaps and bounds. They have the Disney name and location and that is a huge influence.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I agree. I've been a member 10 years, it was only OKW and BWV when I bought. There are always complaints and it never stopped DVC from growing by leaps and bounds. They have the Disney name and location and that is a huge influence.

Yup... BUT, they didn't start reducing benefits, closing PI, cutting back fireworks, etc.. in those 10 years. It has really come to light in the last year.

Prior to the past year I believe things were indeed pretty rosy, and prospective members read the good reviews..

MG

 

[tjkraz]

Yup... BUT, they didn't start reducing benefits, closing PI, cutting back fireworks, etc.. in those 10 years. It has really come to light in the last year.

Prior to the past year I believe things were indeed pretty rosy, and prospective members read the good reviews..

MG

Still disagree. There's always been a topic du jour that seemed to get people worked-up.

Going back 10+ years there were things like new rooms which were smaller than OKW, much higher point charts, potential impact of building so many off-site rooms (Vero, HHI), discontinuation of free park pass incentive.

Then it was things like no AP discount for members, no dining plan for members, no free Internet service, 40-year contracts for BCV buyers, changes to transfer rules, no guaranteed BoardWalk View reservations (before implemented) and the years-long debate over SSR destroying the entire program.

In the last couple of years the hot button issues seem to be changes to booking rules (very, very few complaints in the aftermath), maintenance/refurbs (several resorts now in the midst of upgrades) and housekeeping (which, when you stop and think, have seen a noticeable decrease in complaints here on the forums in the last 6 months.)

I really don't see DVC benefits being any worse in the long run. Looking at the last 18 months, it appears that we've traded free valet for free Internet. The volume of other perks are largely unchanged going back as far as I can recall.

As far as general cuts at the parks, IMO the post-9/11 reductions were far worse than what we see now. I vividly remember eating dinner at Tony's a full year after 9/11 when the MK was closed at 6pm. EMH was discontinued entirely. MK fireworks and Spectromagic were only performed once or twice per week. Hunchback show ended at DHS with no replacement. Tapestry of Dreams ended at Epcot with no replacement. Entire resorts were shuttered for months to save money and Eagle Pines was scrapped.

While some people are upset over Pleasure Island, it seems like many more are either ambivalent or quite happy at seeing the clubs close.

Individuals certainly view specific changes differently. But to someone researching DVC for the first time, I don't think they would find a higher volume of complaints today than they would have 5 or 10 years ago.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Still disagree. There's always been a topic du jour that seemed to get people worked-up.

Going back 10+ years there were things like new rooms which were smaller than OKW, much higher point charts, potential impact of building so many off-site rooms (Vero, HHI), discontinuation of free park pass incentive.

Then it was things like no AP discount for members, no dining plan for members, no free Internet service, 40-year contracts for BCV buyers, changes to transfer rules and the years-long debate over SSR destroying the entire program.

In the last couple of years the hot button issues seem to be changes to booking rules (very, very few complaints in the aftermath), maintenance/refurbs (several resorts now in the midst of upgrades) and housekeeping (which, when you stop and think, have seen a noticeable decrease in complaints here on the forums in the last 6 months.)

I really don't see DVC benefits being any worse in the long run. Looking at the last 18 months, it appears that we've traded free valet for free Internet. The volume of other perks are largely unchanged going back as far as I can recall.

As far as general cuts at the parks, IMO the post-9/11 reductions were far worse than what we see now. I vividly remember eating dinner at Tony's a full year after 9/11 when the MK was closed at 6pm. EMH was discontinued entirely. MK fireworks and Spectromagic were only performed once or twice per week. Hunchback show ended at DHS with no replacement. Tapestry of Dreams ended at Epcot with no replacement. Entire resorts were shuttered for months to save money and Eagle Pines was scrapped.

While some people are upset over Pleasure Island, it seems like many more are either ambivalent or quite happy at seeing the clubs close.

Individuals certainly view specific changes differently. But to someone researching DVC for the first time, I don't think they would find a higher volume of complaints today than they would have 5 or 10 years ago.

Yeah... But... The Internet, and people Googling such items was not as prevelant back in 1996 when BWV came out with smaller rooms and higher points. We kind of need a baseline of when the Internet started getting serious usage.

The items you describe in the past couple years... well... DVC isn't selling all that well at present.
Same can be said for the amount spent at WDW.
Certainly much of that is attributed to the economic situation, but do we really know how much?

Point is, information, good or bad, is readily available now unlike it was 15 years ago.
Want to buy a car?? Does anyone even bother haggling at a dealer anymore?
Need a question answered on, ohh, ANYTHING?? Just type in a Google search.

Obviously anyone should see the amount of instant information is far, far more available today than 15 years ago.
Do you make a major purchase today without doing some research on the web? Did you do so 20 years ago?

MG

 

[dianeschlicht]

Still disagree. There's always been a topic du jour that seemed to get people worked-up.

Going back 10+ years there were things like new rooms which were smaller than OKW, much higher point charts, potential impact of building so many off-site rooms (Vero, HHI), discontinuation of free park pass incentive.

Then it was things like no AP discount for members, no dining plan for members, no free Internet service, 40-year contracts for BCV buyers, changes to transfer rules, no guaranteed BoardWalk View reservations (before implemented) and the years-long debate over SSR destroying the entire program.

In the last couple of years the hot button issues seem to be changes to booking rules (very, very few complaints in the aftermath), maintenance/refurbs (several resorts now in the midst of upgrades) and housekeeping (which, when you stop and think, have seen a noticeable decrease in complaints here on the forums in the last 6 months.)

I really don't see DVC benefits being any worse in the long run. Looking at the last 18 months, it appears that we've traded free valet for free Internet. The volume of other perks are largely unchanged going back as far as I can recall.

As far as general cuts at the parks, IMO the post-9/11 reductions were far worse than what we see now. I vividly remember eating dinner at Tony's a full year after 9/11 when the MK was closed at 6pm. EMH was discontinued entirely. MK fireworks and Spectromagic were only performed once or twice per week. Hunchback show ended at DHS with no replacement. Tapestry of Dreams ended at Epcot with no replacement. Entire resorts were shuttered for months to save money and Eagle Pines was scrapped.

While some people are upset over Pleasure Island, it seems like many more are either ambivalent or quite happy at seeing the clubs close.

Individuals certainly view specific changes differently. But to someone researching DVC for the first time, I don't think they would find a higher volume of complaints today than they would have 5 or 10 years ago.

I totally agree, and perks like valet parking weren't ALWAYS around anyway. I figure perks come and go, and you have to be flexible with those things. The same goes for details like booking rules etc. Sure it was a big change at first, but we've all adjusted to it, and we'll live with it. Just like the closed attractions and parades (Think Tapestry) that we loved and miss. Their demise doesn't prevent us from going to Disney and still enjoying it.

 

[Chuck S]

I totally agree, and perks like valet parking weren't ALWAYS around anyway. I figure perks come and go, and you have to be flexible with those things. The same goes for details like booking rules etc. Sure it was a big change at first, but we've all adjusted to it, and we'll live with it. Just like the closed attractions and parades (Think Tapestry) that we loved and miss. Their demise doesn't prevent us from going to Disney and still enjoying it.

I agree, too. The only thing certain is that there will be changes, no perks are constant.

As far as the booking window change, by reading the boards, it really seems to have had an overall negligible impact for the vast majority of members, and I was quite leary of it for the members at smaller resorts.

 

[Bobbles]

My guess about the next DVC "Perk" to disappear.....?

Free internet service for DVC members.

I didn't know about the valet parking loss until we checked in yesterday. (Unfortunately, I let the BW staff know that I was "irritated". Not their fault. I apologized.)

I do not understand how some members have no problem with the erosion of perks. Are they part of some form of management group that decides that "outsourcing" is good for them?

We joined DVC in 2002 with the belief that perks were some kind of benefit. I pay almost $2000 a year for maintenance fees.

DVC is a big disappointment to me now.

I will let them know this week while I am here. (Like I think they care about my opinion. )

 

[tjkraz]

Yeah... But... The Internet, and people Googling such items was not as prevelant back in 1996 when BWV came out with smaller rooms and higher points. We kind of need a baseline of when the Internet started getting serious usage.

The items you describe in the past couple years... well... DVC isn't selling all that well at present.
Same can be said for the amount spent at WDW.
Certainly much of that is attributed to the economic situation, but do we really know how much?

Point is, information, good or bad, is readily available now unlike it was 15 years ago.
Want to buy a car?? Does anyone even bother haggling at a dealer anymore?
Need a question answered on, ohh, ANYTHING?? Just type in a Google search.

Obviously anyone should see the amount of instant information is far, far more available today than 15 years ago.
Do you make a major purchase today without doing some research on the web? Did you do so 20 years ago?

MG

Regarding Internet use, undoubtedly it's more prevalent today than in the past. My point is simply that it's an unreliable resource and that individuals are constantly forced to filter what they read. No matter what product you Google, you're going to find negative feedback. That's true of iPhones, Xboxes, Mac computers, cars, restaurants, Disney parks, etc. Every single product and company has dissatisfied customers. And many of those products & companies continue to thrive.

It's apparent that many members are upset by the way this perk was removed. But do you really think that a non-member who researches DVC for the first time, loves the resorts and calculates the financial benefits of a purchase will decide not to buy simply over these sorts of issues? Is a $14 per day valet fee (with free self parking still available) plus some members' open mistrust of DVC management enough to convince Average Joe to decide against a DVC purchase?

As for sales being slow, DVC sold about 10% more contracts in Fiscal Year 2009 than they did in FY 2008. Prices are also higher. Through most of '08 prices were around $104 less a $8 discount ($96 net.) Today AKV and VGC are $112 less $15 ($98) while BLT is $120 less $5 ($115). Incentives were a bit higher in early 2009 as the economy was really struggling. But the fact that we've seen incentives reduced and even a price increase suggests DVC is pretty happy with the rate of sales.

If the economy hadn't tanked I'm sure DVC anticipated a banner year in '09. But they still did quite well in spite of our struggles.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Regarding Internet use, undoubtedly it's more prevalent today than in the past. My point is simply that it's an unreliable resource and that individuals are constantly forced to filter what they read. No matter what product you Google, you're going to find negative feedback. That's true of iPhones, Xboxes, Mac computers, cars, restaurants, Disney parks, etc. Every single product and company has dissatisfied customers. And many of those products & companies continue to thrive.

But how much MORE market share would Apple have if potential customers didn't read about the poor battery life etc..?

It's apparent that many members are upset by the way this perk was removed. But do you really think that a non-member who researches DVC for the first time, loves the resorts and calculates the financial benefits of a purchase will decide not to buy simply over these sorts of issues? Is a $14 per day valet fee (with free self parking still available) plus some members' open mistrust of DVC management enough to convince Average Joe to decide against a DVC purchase?

No, but when someone reads ALL the negatives, including the many negative comments about Jim Lewis, I do believe it has an impact.
After all.. Prospective Members come here everyday asking for the good & bad, should I buy or sould I not buy. I'm sure many, many more are lurking.

As for sales being slow, DVC sold about 10% more contracts in Fiscal Year 2009 than they did in FY 2008. Prices are also higher. Through most of '08 prices were around $104 less a $8 discount ($96 net.) Today AKV and VGC are $112 less $15 ($98) while BLT is $120 less $5 ($115). Incentives were a bit higher in early 2009 as the economy was really struggling. But the fact that we've seen incentives reduced and even a price increase suggests DVC is pretty happy with the rate of sales.

If the economy hadn't tanked I'm sure DVC anticipated a banner year in '09. But they still did quite well in spite of our struggles.

But, as we all know, in business it's not about net number of sales. It's about expectations, and beating expectations. I would bet things are not rosy in that category, thus the increase in hard sell tactics.
We don't really know what the numbers would be if the economy didn't tank.

I believe I read the Parks & Resorts division is down around 18%. Again, much of that is due to the economy, but I guarantee not all of it is.

Okay, all I'm saying is- If you purchase a new car, do you read about the safety, reliability, costs, repairs,etc.. before you buy it?
If you learn it's a repair queen do you buy it anyway, just because you like it?
I don't. I will buy a different car with more positive reviews.

MG

 

[tjkraz]

Okay, all I'm saying is- If you purchase a new car, do you read about the safety, reliability, costs, repairs,etc.. before you buy it? If you learn it's a repair queen do you buy it anyway, just because you like it? I don't. I will buy a different car with more positive reviews.

Depends upon whether I can even find negative reviews, the overall volume and how much stock I place in those opinions.

What is the "different car with more positive reviews" in DVC terms? You're not going to find a timeshare program or even a hotel chain with universally glowing reviews. WDW alone has something like 30,000 resort rooms and not every guest staying in those rooms is going to report a positive experience.

Most DVC buyers are experienced WDW park guests who have already formed their own expectations for their Disney resort stays. I will concede that some people may read these forums and be wary of comments about maintenance or housekeeping at DVC resorts. Whether those fears are realistic or not is an entirely different topic, as is the extent to which Disney can even control and combat such perceptions.

That said, I'm hard-pressed to believe that DVC will lose business over a valet parking fee (which non-members are used to paying anyway) and subjective comments about how DVC management treats members. IMO, it's more likely to have impacted sales if dues had risen by 5-8% in 2010 with the addition of a subsidized valet perk.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Depends upon whether I can even find negative reviews, the overall volume and how much stock I place in those opinions.

What is the "different car with more positive reviews" in DVC terms? You're not going to find a timeshare program or even a hotel chain with universally glowing reviews. WDW alone has something like 30,000 resort rooms and not every guest staying in those rooms is going to report a positive experience.

Most DVC buyers are experienced WDW park guests who have already formed their own expectations for their Disney resort stays. I will concede that some people may read these forums and be wary of comments about maintenance or housekeeping at DVC resorts. Whether those fears are realistic or not is an entirely different topic, as is the extent to which Disney can even control and combat such perceptions.

That said, I'm hard-pressed to believe that DVC will lose business over a valet parking fee (which non-members are used to paying anyway) and subjective comments about how DVC management treats members. IMO, it's more likely to have impacted sales if dues had risen by 5-8% in 2010 with the addition of a subsidized valet perk.

FYI....posters on the Cruiseline boards are posting negatives posts about DCL due to its last minute cancellations/suspensions to bookings of the 2011 Mediterranean Cruises. Lots of conflicting info, but all DCL did was halt bookings and had TA's call clients asking if they will consider booking to other cruise dates. No explanations. They are not happy over there, so this same mentality has migrated from DVC.....

 

[Brian Noble]

Certainly much of that is attributed to the economic situation, but do we really know how much?

Occam's Razor suggests almost all of it. First, even current members mostly have no idea of many of these issues---just listen to the conversations around the resort pool, and it's clear that most Members have never *visited* disboards, let alone read all these threads.

Second, on balance, the overall attitude of the DVC discussion, even here in this little corner of the Internet, is overwhemlingly positive. Every other day, there's an "Is DVC Worth It" post---almost all of the responses boil down to "I should have done it sooner". There are a few who aren't happy about this or that, for good or ill reason. But, on balance, a third-party observer would conclude that even here, DVC is viewed more positively than not.

 

[crisi]

Second, on balance, the overall attitude of the DVC discussion, even here in this little corner of the Internet, is overwhemlingly positive. Every other day, there's an "Is DVC Worth It" post---almost all of the responses boil down to "I should have done it sooner". There are a few who aren't happy about this or that, for good or ill reason. But, on balance, a third-party observer would conclude that even here, DVC is viewed more positively than not.

And in all the financial analysis I've seen over the years, I've never seen anyone add in what they save on valet into the ROI numbers - but most people are still coming out with positive ROI. I have seen people add in the AP discount - which probably isn't a good analysis since it can be taken away - but I've seen people do it. You don't find many people here who say that DVC is a bad financial deal.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Occam's Razor suggests almost all of it. First, even current members mostly have no idea of many of these issues---just listen to the conversations around the resort pool, and it's clear that most Members have never *visited* disboards, let alone read all these threads.

Second, on balance, the overall attitude of the DVC discussion, even here in this little corner of the Internet, is overwhemlingly positive. Every other day, there's an "Is DVC Worth It" post---almost all of the responses boil down to "I should have done it sooner". There are a few who aren't happy about this or that, for good or ill reason. But, on balance, a third-party observer would conclude that even here, DVC is viewed more positively than not.

You're right.. Nobody ever researches on the Internet before a major purchase. It truly is a wasted resource.
Instead, people will go to the corner store and buy a Consumer Reports magazine. While they are there they ask around the other customers for word of mouth opinions on DVC, automobiles, colleges, etc..
We all know word of mouth is very important for business. Thank goodness for the corner store, because nobody uses the most powerful word of mouth tool of all time.. the Internet.
Bad publicity for a company? Don't worry.. Just put it on the information highway we call the Internet. Nobody will read it there.

MG