no more free esta!!!!!

[disneydaft]

Found it, although not as clear as i recalled.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/columnists/gillcharlton/4600633/Ask-Gill-criminal-records-and-US-visas-ski-insurance-XL-payouts-and-Italy-in-bloom.html

Gill Charlton replies
You are wrong to suggest that the US immigration authorities have access to the UK's Criminal Records Bureau database. They do not. This has been confirmed to me by the Home Office. Obviously some information is shared about serious criminals but there is no way the US officials could have known of your son's spent conviction unless he had told them about it.

After speaking to you I realise this is exactly what has happened. Your son applied to the US Embassy in London for a travel visa in 1995 and told the authorities he had a criminal record. Because of this, and because the US authorities do not recognise spent convictions, he will now always have to obtain a visa to travel to the United States.

 

[wilma-bride]

....

 

[disneydaft]

So you don't have any personal experience of the situation nor any inside knowledge of how US immigration works

I never said I did have.

 

[2Tiggies]

Found it, although not as clear as i recalled.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/columnists/gillcharlton/4600633/Ask-Gill-criminal-records-and-US-visas-ski-insurance-XL-payouts-and-Italy-in-bloom.html

I remember reading that in the paper. I seem to think it was The Times last year. I completely forgot about it, but I do seem to think the response you have quoted has been edited (as in made shorter).

So do you think Alyson's DB should rather go through with the process anyway? It is a bit confusing because the official webiste clearly seems to imply that in his case it is not necessary.

 

[disneydaft]

I remember reading that in the paper. I seem to think it was The Times last year. I completely forgot about it, but I do seem to think the response you have quoted has been edited (as in made shorter).

So do you think Alyson's DB should rather go through with the process anyway? It is a bit confusing because the official webiste clearly seems to imply that in his case it is not necessary.

The article isn't the clearest as I said but I probably would go for the medical etc now just to ease my mind a bit.

Reading back my posts they do seem to be a bit negative but I can assure Alyson and everyone else that it is not intentional. I know how much we all love (and how much we spend on ) our Disney holidays that it's always better to be sure that everything is as it should be.

 

[wilma-bride]

The article isn't the clearest as I said but I probably would go for the medical etc now just to ease my mind a bit.

Reading back my posts they do seem to be a bit negative but I can assure Alyson and everyone else that it is not intentional. I know how much we all love (and how much we spend on ) our Disney holidays that it's always better to be sure that everything is as it should be.

I do see where you're coming from now - your other posts were quite blunt (and a tad harsh) and I do think they upset Alyson a bit when she though she could breathe a sigh of relief and not have to worry about it.

 

[howlongtillsummer?]

How did you contact the US embassy Alyson? Hope it wasn't their hugely expensive phone line!

 

[2Tiggies]

The article isn't the clearest as I said but I probably would go for the medical etc now just to ease my mind a bit.

Reading back my posts they do seem to be a bit negative but I can assure Alyson and everyone else that it is not intentional. I know how much we all love (and how much we spend on ) our Disney holidays that it's always better to be sure that everything is as it should be.

I got the same impression as Wilma - to a certain degree anyway - until post 60. That was where I thought perhaps I wasn't reading in the tone intended.

I don't really know what else to say on the matter to be honest. It seemed like all the questions had been answered for a blissful moment .... But as you say, the last thing anyone needs is to encounter hassles when they get there, which could have been sorted out here (albeit at a cost and inconvenience).

What if Alyson's DB emailed CPB. His response would then be by email (i.e. in writing) and if he printed that and took it with him, assuming is corresponds with what he was told on the phone, he could present it with a print out of his approved ESTA? Look, I have to be upfront. I am not a gambler or a risk taker at all. Any risk of mine is a "safe" one and I would never do it, but I wonder how that would work.

 

[kristieuk]

The way I interpret all of this is that you can travel under the Visa Waiver ie do not need to apply for a separate visa if you can successfully answer 'NO' to all of the yes/no questions on the Visa Waiver Form, which are also listed on the ESTA form.

The question relating to convictions reads:
B) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities? *

One DUI offence is NOT a crime of moral turpitude, neither does it come into any of the other categories. I appreciate there is lots of conflicting information, and to cover themselves many advisors suggest a visa should be applied for where you have been arrested or convicted for anything (I think a lot of this is down to the the list of offences that constitute moral turpitude being difficult to limit, so the advice is better be safe than sorry).

However, Crabbie has had it confirmed by Border Control that DUI is not an offence of moral turpitude, and therefore her partner is entitled to travel under the Visa Waiver. All the information I can find confirms it is not classified as moral turpitude in the US (although it is in Canada).

Worst case scenario they get stopped at Immigration and asked about the aborted application (which I think is unlikely), it's a straightforward answer - we clarified with the authorities, the offence was DUI, that does not preclude admission, and it means we can travel under the visa waiver, which we have done.

I appreciate that no-one is trying to be negative and we all are all trying to help, but this is my 'lawyer head' interpretation of the situation. It's not my area so it is not professional advice obviously, but I know Crabbie is having kittens about all of this, and I just wanted to send some reassurance from the way I see it

 

[howlongtillsummer?]

I agree with you totally. I really want everything to be ok and am sure it probably would be. It is just the probably that is niggling me. I would hate to smile here and agree with you, only to read later that a disaster happenend at immigration.

I was in the same boat as you, DH has a spent convinction for a minor offence as a teenager. This was all before ESTA and the guidance was that anyone who had ever been arrested, even if not convicted, should get a visa.

He disagreed with me and thought he would be fine without but got one, mostly for my peace of mind. He was issued a ten year visa very easily and we have enjoyed multiple trips on it.

When it runs out, he is definately eligible for ESTA, but I would be very nervous that he would be turned away on arrival - I will look into it very closely at the time (thankfully 7 more years )

It is totally your decision and I am absolutely on your side whichever path you choose

 

[crabbie1]

I dont go around with my head in the sand believing what i want to believe ; HOWEVER......................... my application was not completed, it has been abandoned! The United States Customs and Border Patrol have e-mailed me and TOLD me that I can travel on the Visa Waiver Programme. This is DB writing ,not Crabbie. I take it the online newspaper article you read has somehow made you an expert on customs and Immigration within the US;more so than the CBP person I received the e-mail from . I realize that you think you are being helpful and to some degree you have been.
Tell you what; I promise to e-mail you from AKL

Thanks to all who have been so supportive and good natured in their responses. I dont like insinuations of being stupid and hearing what I want to hear.This is a very serious subject for both my DG and myself and have taken a great deal of time in the last 24hrs to get answers.
As for the money a few hundred pounds is an awful lot to me as I recently lost my job through illness
Anyway this is getting out of hand because of your comments and I have said what I have to.Alyson is upset enough over this and reading your negativity when others have given support was not necessary.

 

[2Tiggies]

I dont go around with my head in the sand believing what i want to believe ; HOWEVER......................... my application was not completed, it has been abandoned! The United States Customs and Border Patrol have e-mailed me and TOLD me that I can travel on the Visa Waiver Programme. This is DB writing ,not Crabbie. I take it the online newspaper article you read has somehow made you an expert on customs and Immigration within the US;more so than the CBP person I received the e-mail from . I realize that you think you are being helpful and to some degree you have been.
Tell you what; I promise to e-mail you from AKL

Thanks to all who have been so supportive and good natured in their responses. I dont like insinuations of being stupid and hearing what I want to hear.This is a very serious subject for both my DG and myself and have taken a great deal of time in the last 24hrs to get answers.
As for the money a few hundred pounds is an awful lot to me as I recently lost my job through illness
Anyway this is getting out of hand because of your comments and I have said what I have to.Alyson is upset enough over this and reading your negativity when others have given support was not necessary.

Nice to meet you DB!

So sorry you all had to go through all of this, but I am really pleased that you have things sorted to your satisfaction! Sometimes on these boards things appear to be harsh although they are not intended that way. I always say (and this is not aimed at you, it is just my approach ): Be extra careful when you communicate in text only. Without the body language, facial expressions and voiced inflections the readers are left to add those in as they interpret the written content. There is always a higher risk of being misinterpreted or unintentionally offending someone. Point is, I do believe most people truly want to help (and some of us get fiercely protective of our DIS friends ). We're not a bad bunch. It would be great if you join us.

Oh and we would love to hear from you while you are having a blast at Disney. You can post on the boards about what a great time you are having and how it is all worth it. I can't wait to read it. You guys have earned a fantastic break - you deserve it to be extra special!

 

[crabbie1]

Thanks for that 2tiggies. Crabbies DB again. I realize people can read into the text word what isn't meant to be there and I do have a forgiving nature!!
i know people try to be helpful so all's fine as far as i'm concerned. Alyson was getting rather stressed(as was I) over the US embassy's attitude and the contradiction from their own Government in America.It is a money making machine and i think they ought to reassess their attitude to the Brits who,by and large, never complain.
Never been to Disney But have been assured I will have a great time.

 

[howlongtillsummer?]

You will have a super time!! Glad you have made your decision - time to start the next bit of planning!!

 

[disneydaft]

Again sorry if you took my advice the wrong way. I in no way proclaimed myself to be an expert. lol

I have posted my interpretation of published information and common knowledge about how the US government acceses and deals with our information.

The one thing I will say is that you are pretty naive if you think that the information you gave in your visa application has not been kept.

Anyway have a nice holiday, I think we are there about the same time.

 

[2Tiggies]

Again sorry if you took my advice the wrong way. I in no way proclaimed myself to be an expert. lol

I have posted my interpretation of published information and common knowledge about how the US government acceses and deals with our information.

The one thing I will say is that you are pretty naive if you think that the information you gave in your visa application has not been kept.

Anyway have a nice holiday, I think we are there about the same time.

They have just been incredibly stressed. I can't imagine what it must have been like to go through all that I posted the most stupid ESTA question in the middle of my lunch hour, right as I got to the part where you hit the APPLY button. That was my idea of ESTA stress. I have to say though, Crabbie's DB is right. If it is so essential that you get it right, why make it so complicated!?!?!?

At least they now have answer from the official source. In the meantime, we have all benefited from an educational experience!

 

[disneydaft]

They have just been incredibly stressed. I can't imagine what it must have been like to go through all that I posted the most stupid ESTA question in the middle of my lunch hour, right as I got to the part where you hit the APPLY button. That was my idea of ESTA stress. I have to say though, Crabbie's DB is right. If it is so essential that you get it right, why make it so complicated!?!?!?

At least they now have answer from the official source. In the meantime, we have all benefited from an educational experience!

At least ESTA is a bit less stressfull than filling in those green forms

 

[luke]

At least ESTA is a bit less stressfull than filling in those green forms

Damn right!! Don't think I've ever filled one of those in correctly first time

 

[2Tiggies]

Damn right!! Don't think I've ever filled one of those in correctly first time

Well beware, because not all airlines have phased them out yet. They probably have to use all the stock they have so it doesn't look like they are wasting paper Have you also noticed how everyone miraculously manages to have lost their pens by the time they are handed out too? All of a sudden you have a few hundred folk trying to take turns with 10 pens.

 

[luke]

I have indeed noticed the pen situation!
I also hate the 'pfff' look I see on the cabin crews faces when I tell them I've messed up and need a new forum