No more 'cuts in line' for many disabled Knott's guests

[MidgeD79]

alizes mom, do you have any suggestions?

 

[bumbershoot]

All I can tell you is that when I went, I waited at least 45 minutes in line. From the time the family went past me going up the exit, to the time they went past me going back, it was less than 20 minutes. I know that they went on the ride, because they were discussing it.

OK.

Indy is the worst for the wheelchair bound, our wheelchair party once had to wait over an hour for Indy when the regular line was only about 20 minutes, I will not go with anyone in a wheelchair now on Indy.

Wheelchairs and ECVs have to go in the exit, due to the configuration of the FP line, but then that have their own queue before the movie room, so it may look like they are getting on faster, but they are definitely not only two wheelchair parties can be in the movie room or further at a time and many times it does not get communicated when the wheelchair parties leave, so there are often none there and a long line of wheelchairs.

Now I'm confused again.

I think maybe that sometimes Indy is quick, and sometimes Indy is slow.

All I truly know is that unless the line for Indy is going out the door and has the full queue in the area visible from Jungle Cruise, FP is barely worth it!


alizesmom

 

[Nancyg56]

What special vehicles? We are talking "local" parks here. I don't believe any exist in the parks I've been to, including Hershey. I could be wrong.

I know what you're talking about at Disney because I've seen them, but I've been to a couple of parks and nowhere else have I ever seen special vehicles. Do Knotts and Hershey have special vehicles or must all riders transfer into the ride vehicle at all attractions? I would guess they don't which makes cheating the system more attractive for would be cheaters and that's probably why it's more of an issue for those parks.

You cannot compare a local park to Disney parks. By doing so you are losing the information that posters have been trying to share with you. You are attempting to take that experience and superimpose it onto a Disney experience and that just is not the reality.

 

[Belle1962]

WOW--as a disabled person may I say I have never felt safer at WDW than I do now. I never knew Disney had more than the average number of professionally trained medical personnel vacationing there. Those of you who can instantly assess the medical condition of anyone simply by looking at them and those of you who know autism is just the Disease of the Day and it's not a big deal so why give special accomodations for them.

Thanks for sharing your expertise with the rest of us.


and yes--this post is full of sarcasm and hoepfully a little funny wit for those who "get it".

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Oh goodness me! Things have taken rather a turn since I left! And it seems that now I'm famous!

I thought the discussion was going well too, but then I saw this post by you:
http://disboards.com/showpost.php?p=25879571&postcount=19

Why not say what you really feel?

Stella, I'm afraid you seem to have misinterpreted my post. Maybe that's my fault, but I was aiming it at a different 'audience' to my posts in this thread. I know that most of the people over on the disABILITIES board know me well enough now to understand my sense of humour, so I don't need to put the little explanatory notes (such as "do not take me too seriously, here") that I put into threads outside the disABILITIES board. Also, a lot of people over there have been though similar things to me, so will understand some of my references, that others may not get (not intended in anyway to be an insult to anyone, just saying that different people experience the world differently).

You see, most of us who've been on the disABILITIES board a while have seen a few of these kind of threads come and go. Now mostly, the posts are fairly friendly, with a decent exchange of opinions and points of view, but of course you get a few people who post some very ugly remarks (not aimed at anyone in particular here). For those of us with disabilities, humour is often the best way to deal with negative situations. My post on the other thread was intended to be a very silly joke about how out of control some of these threads can get (hence all my little laughing smilies). For instance, when I said:

These kind of threads always make me want to turn into a vigilante wheelchair user. They think they've got it bad now? Just wait until they see what I can do when I put my mind to it

I didn't actually mean I was going to go around running over small children in my wheelchair!

Also this comment:

Maybe we should start our own threads, complaining about having to wait longer on rides like Buzz; or getting cut up by the able-bods; or having to wait ages for the larger stall, because someone's little princess didn't like her princess dress.

Was intended as a nice little joke for the people who have done the parks with a disability, and have found that there are plenty of things that we could complain about, that some able-bods do (please everyone notice the use of the word 'some', as we are fully aware that most able-bods are perfectly sweet people, and it's not their fault that they've been cursed with such a healthy body ).

Any other comments I made in that post were also jokes about the very small minority of people who seem to think that all of us with disabilities should be left at home in the front room, and occasionally be allowed out to feed the ducks (please note the use of the phrase "very small minority of people").

You have got to be kidding. No one was attacked. Her tone in THIS thread as opposed to that one is totally different. She posted that on the DIS and if she does not want someone reading it and connecting it to this thread, she shouldn't have posted it.

I have no problem with what she posted, I just don't understand why she wouldn't post it here.

You all sorted on this now? Hope I've explained things well enough above, but I'm happy to talk more about this if you want.

I have not read all of the responses. I like to think "out of the box" even if I decide that I don't like the idea after all. I enjoy hearing other peoples ideas and usually my original idea evolves.
Here's the idea:
WDw should stop renting wheelchairs/scooters. The people with truly disabling conditions would have their own wheelchair, and the people that think they may need one could rent one from a medical supply company off-site. Their primary doctor should be able to write a prescription and the insurance pay for it. You could get the prescription and decide not to use it.
What would be the pros and cons of this?

Unfortunately this would create more problems than it would solve. Because of the size of the parks, temporary injuries that would normally be easy to deal with, become huge problems. For instance, when I was a lot younger (before the Fibro kicked in) I had problems with my ankle. We would never have thought before we left that it would be a problem on the trip, but by the third day I was limping so much that my parents had to get me a wheelchair. At the time, we had no idea at all about the external rental companies (seems a bit hard to imagine now), and even if we did, I doubt my family would have thought it worth renting from outside the parks, so I would have had a miserable trip.

Many, many people at Disney end up spending a day or two in a wheelchair because of a sprained ankle or something, but they wouldn't deem it bad enough to stop their park touring for the day, go back to the hotel, find the number of an external company, order a chair, wait for it to be delivered (which might not be until the next day) and then deal with it on the buses (more of a faff for those of us in the chair than those in the line, I assure you). This could mean that they do further damage to their joints by 'toughing it out', all for the want of a set of wheels.

If someone was determined to 'fake' to get any perceived (and mainly non-existent) perks, they could rent from off-site as well.

Hope this answers your question a bit. I completely understand where you're coming from, and I don't like people faking either, but sadly those kind of people will always find a way around whatever barriers are put in place, if they really want to. Mostly, I just feel sorry for the people who choose to fake a disability, as they will probably realise fairly quickly that they get a better deal on their legs.

yeah me too...

and i think we should leave OLS alone now, since she is from the UK and is now in bed (it is late there and she is ill, you know) and cannot speak for herself... let us move on to other topics

Aww, thanks to K and everyone else who stuck up for me while I was asleep! Hopefully this whole misunderstanding is all sorted out now, and we can get back to our friendly and informed debate

Hey, it's all good. I thought I was on the SAME side with the disabled people, but it seems that some are still wanting to get hot and bothered and argue.

There are sides now?! Nobody told me this was a war! Am I already on one side, or do I need to wait for someone to choose me, like in school sports? I don't want to be left until last! Ooh ooh, pick me, pick me!! (this paragraph was a joke for fun and silliness, not aimed as an attack on anyone. My sense of humour is.... British; please don't misunderstand this as unkind, mean or vindictive)

WOW--as a disabled person may I say I have never felt safer at WDW than I do now. I never knew Disney had more than the average number of professionally trained medical personnel vacationing there. Those of you who can instantly assess the medical condition of anyone simply by looking at them and those of you who know autism is just the Disease of the Day and it's not a big deal so why give special accomodations for them.

Thanks for sharing your expertise with the rest of us.

Love it Belle!! Thanks for giving me a giggle, I rather needed it

 

[Skatermom23]

While at WDW over Memorial Day weekend the only time that this bothered me, and I even noticed, was on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. The CM's were keeping the whole first car open for Handicap riders. People were coming down in parties of 8+ people and they always got the front cars. I do think it should be limited to maybe a party of 4.

 

[KPeveler]

While at WDW over Memorial Day weekend the only time that this bothered me, and I even noticed, was on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. The CM's were keeping the whole first car open for Handicap riders. People were coming down in parties of 8+ people and they always got the front cars. I do think it should be limited to maybe a party of 4.

Two things:

The parties ARE limited to 6, including the person with the disability.

Second, you cannot see where the people are waiting. you THINK you see them come right in from the exit. What you DONT see is that there is a special line outside that we are made to wait in. BTMRR is one of the rides that we almost always end up waiting longer than the normal standby time. Next time you go out the exit, look to your right as you come down the hill and look at the line of people with wheelchairs adn scooters...

There is usually a line you do not see for rides like this...

 

[Skatermom23]

Two things:

The parties ARE limited to 6, including the person with the disability.

Second, you cannot see where the people are waiting. you THINK you see them come right in from the exit. What you DONT see is that there is a special line outside that we are made to wait in. BTMRR is one of the rides that we almost always end up waiting longer than the normal standby time. Next time you go out the exit, look to your right as you come down the hill and look at the line of people with wheelchairs adn scooters...

There is usually a line you do not see for rides like this...

Perhaps, but they don't enforce it. At least not this day, on the multply times I rode BTMRR, thanks to fast pass. There was even one time that they reserved the two front cars because the party was so large at 12 people! I guess it did bother me that some people stood in line for hours and really wanted to ride up front (and were willingly to wait even longer for that seat) but were not allowed because that car was continually reserved.

 

[KPeveler]

Perhaps, but they don't enforce it. At least not this day, on the multply times I rode BTMRR, thanks to fast pass. There was even one time that they reserved the two front cars because the party was so large at 12 people! I guess it did bother me that some people stood in line for hours and really wanted to ride up front (and were willingly to wait even longer for that seat) but were not allowed because that car was continually reserved.

i am sure if you ask them, they will allow you to sit there.

also, if you see people not enforicng rules, dont feel bad reporting them.

and we have waited hours as well... i am sure the last time i rode it, it looked like one big party. in fact, it was 3 small parties, but we did take up the first two cars. we had also been waiting an HOUR longer than the standby time, which we would be happy to wait in, if there were not stairs.

we wait as long as standby times, and usually longer.

 

[KPeveler]

Perhaps, but they don't enforce it. At least not this day, on the multply times I rode BTMRR, thanks to fast pass.

I also feel I should point out that those of us in wheelchairs cannot use fastpass on this ride - we and our parties HAVE to wait the standby time or longer. We have no other choice. that may also be the reason on this ride that they send bigger parties in - they HAVE NO CHOICE but to wait in a standby line - either the regular one or the WC one

 

[Skatermom23]

i am sure if you ask them, they will allow you to sit there.

I never asked because it isn't a big deal to me, but I saw many teens ask and they were always told no. Only once did I ever raise an eyebrow and that was the group of 12 that came down (they were all together) and grandma looked positively fearful as she got out of her wheelchair on into the ride. Anyone would have thought the same thing. She was there with her grandkids and they all got choice seating fairly quick. I understand that you do have a line as well but it wasn't anything near what the standby line was. I just don't like to see anyone abuse what is clearly a need for some.

 

[Belle1962]

At BTMRR they often load 2 or 3 groups at the same time. Not all groups who use that access are in ecv/wheelchairs. So while you may see only 1 chair with the group it is possible that they are different groups. And yes---they may be laughing and joking with each other but that doesn't mean they are together. We often make friends with the other groups around us as we juggle that hot UNSHADED line at BTMRRR. We juggle people around to make sure all who need the teeny teeny tiny patch of shade get it (and we don't worry about who was where line--the shade is at the front--if you need it you get it) we talk, the kids talk. So by the time get into the ride area--YEAH we look like one big group but we aren't really. That's the best part of Disney--making friends and meeting new people.

As far as which seats are "reserved"--I would "GUESS" and this is only a GUESS not a fact--coaster engineering is in play--the front of the train does not "whip" you around like the back does and this is probably simply Disney's way of "protecting" the little ones or those like granny who may be more prone to fractures/bone injuries, and would appreciate the smoother ride (in as much as a coaster can be smooth )

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Let me just say two things.

A) In my country we aren't about equal access. One of the consequences of that? Any amusementpark out here is (very) unfamiliar with easy access waitinglines, let alone accessible ride vehicles. Consequence of that? I get to enter each and every ride through the back door. Sure, I have to hunt down an employee, but OK. You'll be on the ride within 15 minutes of hunting down that male/female, never mind if the rest is waiting 2+ hours. And you know what? It sucks! Why? Equality, equality. Not only does it make you a weird form of 'different type of people', but you'll get treated like being a parasite for even wanting to use the only option to enter a ride you've got. If you can enter a ride at all, that is ofcourse.

Now back to WDW. I did WDW solo last september. And while I've had some great help and service from some wonderfull CM's I can honestly say that on a 'whole' day, WDW does not do 'front of the line', just because I happen to have some wheels beneath my butt. Amongst other things.


Now, any takers for the offer I made the other day? I'm started to feel hurt here, nobody wants to tour WDW with me, boohoo. Now that's a different story when doing a amusementpark overhere.

I'm feeling generous today.

Those of you that think there are benefits at WDW for those with a disability, to such an extend those people are given a VIP-treatment whereas they are only treated as standard mob-people; I invite you to come along on my next trip.

Seriously! I'm there from december 2nd untill the 15th. You're all (please not on one day. Allthough? Could be fun ) welcome to join me for a day. See first hand what the perks and downsides are. Compair those to the day your family will have had that same day (just using the touringplan you allways use) at the same park.

Just take the chance, oppertunity, anything you want to call it. Don't judge based on info you get from Judy, Jack, the neighbours or from those 5 minutes you've seen somebody with a disability at WDW, no judge after an almost first hand experience.

For those really wanting to know what it is like to get this suspected 'royal treatment'? I'll be travelling with 2 chairs (as allways), so if you're really nice I'll lend you one for the day. Free of charge, only condition that comes with it is that you'll be tied to it to ensure no cheating. (sarcasm folks, sarcasm those last few tied-to-chair-words)

 

[KPeveler]

I never asked because it isn't a big deal to me, but I saw many teens ask and they were always told no. Only once did I ever raise an eyebrow and that was the group of 12 that came down (they were all together) and grandma looked positively fearful as she got out of her wheelchair on into the ride. Anyone would have thought the same thing. She was there with her grandkids and they all got choice seating fairly quick. I understand that you do have a line as well but it wasn't anything near what the standby line was. I just don't like to see anyone abuse what is clearly a need for some.

ok, i cannot speak to that day, but when i was there, there were 4 (four!) parties in front of me on BTMRR. The standby line was 30 mins. I ended up waiting an hour and a half, because they brought us up in groups. So you may have seen 2 or 3 wc parties come in at once, and then there is usually a lull. So it looks like a short line, but generally it is not.

and you cannot judge the whole park or "abuse" on one ride, and what you saw. I look fearful on BTMRR, because i am scared of heights, but i have fun once i get there.

you cannot guess based on what you see. yes, there may have been a party that "cheated" as you thought, but that is hardly the norm. as i said, they may allow larger parties on because there is no fastpass option. they allow larger parties on Small World and POTC sometimes to keep people together all in one boat.

disney takes everything on a case by case basis. you cannot know what was really happening based on a quick observance as you got on a ride...

 

[Planogirl]

Wow, this thread is huge.

I want to ask something. Is this problem really that bad? I've never experienced some of the situations described here so I don't know how prevalent it actually is. I've waited for buses for way too long but I tend to blame Disney for providing slow service rather than the guests waiting in line whoever they are.

The change at Knott's seems a bit impractical. I did notice that Knott's said that they would be monitoring the change and would alter it if warranted. They also stated that exceptions would be made on a case by case basis. It sounds like they're trying to deal with people who try to cheat the system and might be going a bit overboard.

The problem to me are those who try to cheat the system. I'm not sure how prevalent it is but I suspect that the number is growing which is very sad.

 

[Belle1962]

The problem to me are those who try to cheat the system. I'm not sure how prevalent it is but I suspect that the number is growing which is very sad.

Yes--the problem is those who cheat the system and then "everyone" in a wheelchair or ecv is looked at suspiciously because of that (can you say "profiling"?).

The number probably is growing as more people are internet active and read boards like these. That is a fine line we tread on the Disabilities Board--how to be helpful enough so that those who truely need the assistance can get it vs those who are lurking just to see what they can scam from it.

There are no easy solutions to any of this debate.

 

[Beccabunny]

OP, you have filled me with hope! There is a chance that my daughter really doesn't have autiem, it's just my lousy parenting. Can we get together sometime so you can meet my daughter and make the determination? I'll bring the thousands of pages of medical and educational records and you can tell me where the professionals went wrong. Then maybe I can sue and recover the money I've spent on her care, pay off the mortgage we obtained to pay for that care, and maybe have a little left over to invest in parenting classes.

What should I then do with her GAC? Sell it on ebay?

 

[Toot Sweet]

Wow, this thread is huge.

I want to ask something. Is this problem really that bad? I've never experienced some of the situations described here so I don't know how prevalent it actually is. I've waited for buses for way too long but I tend to blame Disney for providing slow service rather than the guests waiting in line whoever they are.

The change at Knott's seems a bit impractical. I did notice that Knott's said that they would be monitoring the change and would alter it if warranted. They also stated that exceptions would be made on a case by case basis. It sounds like they're trying to deal with people who try to cheat the system and might be going a bit overboard.

The problem to me are those who try to cheat the system. I'm not sure how prevalent it is but I suspect that the number is growing which is very sad.

Well...at Knott's I have seen a several groups of teenagers use crutches and wheelchairs when they had no need of them for the sole purpose of bypassing long lines. When I have been there (and I've been there a lot), there are always groups of unaccompanied teenagers, mainly boys. I have not really seen it at DL or WDW though.

 

[Mom2Nick]

OP, you have filled me with hope! There is a chance that my daughter really doesn't have autiem, it's just my lousy parenting. Can we get together sometime so you can meet my daughter and make the determination? I'll bring the thousands of pages of medical and educational records and you can tell me where the professionals went wrong. Then maybe I can sue and recover the money I've spent on her care, pay off the mortgage we obtained to pay for that care, and maybe have a little left over to invest in parenting classes.

What should I then do with her GAC? Sell it on ebay?

Sorry because I know you're angry but

It's amazing how totally ignorant some people are isn't it? If all it takes is a School Nurse to diagnose a child then I'll stop taking my kid to the Neurologist, Hematologist, Endocrinologist and Gastroenterologist. Forget the genetic testing too. I'll just ask the lady that puts bandaids on kids, dispenses Tylenol and assist the diabetic children with their blood sugar tests if she can just tell me what to do about my child. Think of all that money I will save and all the stressful tests my child will no longer have to endure!!!!!

 

[Planogirl]

Yes--the problem is those who cheat the system and then "everyone" in a wheelchair or ecv is looked at suspiciously because of that (can you say "profiling"?).

The number probably is growing as more people are internet active and read boards like these. That is a fine line we tread on the Disabilities Board--how to be helpful enough so that those who truely need the assistance can get it vs those who are lurking just to see what they can scam from it.

There are no easy solutions to any of this debate.

Personally, I'd rather err on the side of those who truly need assistance. I would rather let some scam artists have their way than deny anyone in need.

So many people are way too selfish nowadays! I hope that karma is truly a...well you know.