No more 'cuts in line' for many disabled Knott's guests

[DebD4T]

These type of threads are why I love to lurk on the DIS. My family is blessed that we have none of the issues that many of the posters on this thread have. When reading these types of threads, it gives me a perspective that I may never have realized. To be quite honest, living with a disability has never affected my life, so I never had any reason to think about it. Reading all these posts gives me an understanding about what people living with disabilities go through on a daily basis. I feel like I come away from the DIS less ignorant.

I for one have never thought about, been bothered by or actually witnessed any "abuse" at WDW. Maybe I am oblivious. But not for one minute do I think it doesn't happen.

I have one question. With regard to the bus situation - what happens if there are 2 spots for wheelchairs/evc's and they are taken, but the bus isn't even half full and there are wheelchair users waiting at the stop along with mobile people? Does the driver really turn everyone away? With the price of gas today, that seems like such a waste.

 

[Belle1962]

I have one question. With regard to the bus situation - what happens if there are 2 spots for wheelchairs/evc's and they are taken, but the bus isn't even half full and there are wheelchair users waiting at the stop along with mobile people? Does the driver really turn everyone away? With the price of gas today, that seems like such a waste.

By law the bus is to be considered 'full" and NO ONE may board (disabled or ambulatory). HOWEVER they do not do this at Disney--they will allow ambulatory persons to board.

 

[KPeveler]

I have one question. With regard to the bus situation - what happens if there are 2 spots for wheelchairs/evc's and they are taken, but the bus isn't even half full and there are wheelchair users waiting at the stop along with mobile people? Does the driver really turn everyone away? With the price of gas today, that seems like such a waste.

technically that is what they are supposed to do, but I have not heard of that actually happening. That law was put into place to prevent bus drivers from claiming the bus was "full" just to avoid having to get up and get a person in a wheelchair on a bus.

If a bus is full and a wheelchair guest is waiting, they will generally send another bus to pick that person up...

 

[Talking Hands]

I have one question. With regard to the bus situation - what happens if there are 2 spots for wheelchairs/evc's and they are taken, but the bus isn't even half full and there are wheelchair users waiting at the stop along with mobile people? Does the driver really turn everyone away? With the price of gas today, that seems like such a waste.

Although by law the bus is full to all, this never happens and the able bodied are allow to board and the disabled guest left to wait alone or with their family. I had one night at PI where I waited alone, in the dark at the farthest bus stop for over 2 hours before I finally loaded on a bus. They were either too full or the lift didn't work. Fiannly a relief driver took pity on me and told the guests on the bus that no one was going anywhere until I was on that bus.

 

[Talking Hands]

technically that is what they are supposed to do, but I have not heard of that actually happening. That law was put into place to prevent bus drivers from claiming the bus was "full" just to avoid having to get up and get a person in a wheelchair on a bus.

If a bus is full and a wheelchair guest is waiting, they will generally send another bus to pick that person up...

Don't count on that. Often the driver doesn't even try to call it in even if they say that they will. Jaded from 10 years experience and while most areas have gotten considerably better bus transportation has not.

 

[KPeveler]

Don't count on that. Often the driver doesn't even try to call it in even if they say that they will. Jaded from 10 years experience and while most areas have gotten considerably better bus transportation has not.

true... i dont rely on the buses, since i usually stay at SOG and the buses there stink...

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

By law the bus is to be considered 'full" and NO ONE may board (disabled or ambulatory). HOWEVER they do not do this at Disney--they will allow ambulatory persons to board.

I'm glad they don't do that. Imagine the rage if a line full of people watched a nearly empty pull away because it had room for only 2 scooters rather than 3.

I doubt this is an issue on 99% of buses in places other than WDW. I take a Metro bus to/from work and there's a wheelchair rider on maybe once every week or two. There's never been an incident in the 15 years I've been commuting where there was more than one (though there are two spots), and my route is a busy one.

 

[Belle1962]

I'm glad they don't do that. Imagine the rage if a line full of people watched a nearly empty pull away because it had room for only 2 scooters rather than 3.

But they would be following the law. And yet no ecv/wheelchair user has started a thread about "no more cuts in line" for many guests...........things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

And yet no ecv/wheelchair user has started a thread about "no more cuts in line" for many guests...........things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm....

Huh?

 

[phorsenuf]

technically that is what they are supposed to do, but I have not heard of that actually happening. That law was put into place to prevent bus drivers from claiming the bus was "full" just to avoid having to get up and get a person in a wheelchair on a bus.

If a bus is full and a wheelchair guest is waiting, they will generally send another bus to pick that person up...

I have never had another bus sent for me. I waited well over an hour at the Poly after dinner one night because the buses were always full (just people, no wheelchairs or scooters so I couldn't get on). After about the 5th bus I asked if they could send one. I was told no. We almost ended up calling a cab because I didn't think I'd ever get out of there. Good thing I didn't have somewhere to be.

 

[waltfan1957]

HOLY MOLY! Could you possibly be any ruder, possibly?!

First, you wish able bodied guests, that are fed up with "abusers", be run over by a bus and become quadraplegic and now you are condescending to someone that wasn't mean at all.

I seriously think it is time to step away from the computer.

im sorry but can someone please show me where she wished
(no you cant) stop baiting her its bordering on bullying although she can clearly take care of herself

 

[Chuck S]

But they would be following the law. And yet no ecv/wheelchair user has started a thread about "no more cuts in line" for many guests...........things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm....

Huh?

I think Belle is referring to the fact (with a touch of irony/sarcasm) that no WC or ECV user has started a thread complaining because the able bodied were allowed to board and use a bus that, by law, should be considered full, while a WC user had to wait for another bus

Perhaps because we WC users have the sense to know that another bus should be along shortly, while that bit of knowledge seems to be lost on able bodied people who are complaining about the WC loading process.

 

[waltfan1957]

OP here, bolding is mine, while the longer wait is not fair to you how is it fair to me to wait longer if you get on sooner? .

so with your logic each bus would only carry 4 passengers 2 in ecv's 2 able bodied then it would be perfectly fair

 

[KPeveler]

so with your logic each bus would only carry 4 passengers 2 in ecv's 2 able bodied then it would be perfectly fair

the OP was referring to a post of mine there where I said that yes, in fact, i think i waited a shorter time once b/c of my wc. she felt that i was being hypocritical in a way, because i said it was unfair i have to wait longer most of the time, and she wanted me to know that sometimes things were unfair to her.

what she didnt point out was my part of hte post where i said "life is not fair" I meant that life is not fair to anyone, disabled or not! you cant get upset about everything

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

I meant that life is not fair to anyone, disabled or not! you cant get upset about everything

Maybe we should all take a nice deep breath and ponder this line.

One thing I do want to say is that when people say, "it irritates me when the party of 10 enters through the back door when we've all been waiting forever," it doesn't mean that "we" spent the rest of the day stomping around being ticked off over the injustice of it all. It is possible to be momentarily exasperated and to get over it without thinking about it again for the rest of the day. It would be really nice to be able to discuss these things without being vilified for our feelings. Most of the people on this thread can do that but some people can't step back and not take every single thing said personally.

Debate is not for the faint of heart.

 

[mgilmer]

uote=Talking Hands;25893264]No federal law doesn't dictate that,but it does say that if the wheelchair person cannot be loaded onto the bus then the bus is full to all at that stop. [/quote]

As a disabled person myself, I find this aspect of the law incredibly stupid. With global warming, the high cost of fuel, air pollution, etc, to allow a half empty bus to go off and leave people standing is idiotic and I have recently contacted my congressman and two senators and urged them in the strongest possible terms to have this changed. Afterall, if I go to Wal-Mart and all the handicapped parking spaces are full, I do not expect Wal-Mart to close the rest of the parking lot. It is things like this that make the enabled community dislike us.

 

[KPeveler]

Maybe we should all take a nice deep breath and ponder this line.

One thing I do want to say is that when people say, "it irritates me when the party of 10 enters through the back door when we've all been waiting forever," it doesn't mean that "we" spent the rest of the day stomping around being ticked off over the injustice of it all. It is possible to be momentarily exasperated and to get over it without thinking about it again for the rest of the day. It would be really nice to be able to discuss these things without being vilified for our feelings. Most of the people on this thread can do that but some people can't step back and not take every single thing said personally.

Debate is not for the faint of heart.

not arguing that point... but people also need to not take it personally when i say that the odds are very good that the party was waiting in an area you couldnt see, like happens on BTMRR. i say something like that, and all of a sudden people say i am attacking them.

i understand being frustrated, but i have little patience for people who cant post a single positive thing, but feel the need to vent about ONE annoying person, who happened to use a wheelchair. it makes us feel like we are being constantly attacked.

people dont realize how often we as disabled people have to fight for what seems obvious in daily life. As Sue about the time the CM at Splash Mountain wanted her to pick up her DD out of her wheelchair and carry her up the steps! obviously that is not the policy and doesnt make sense to anyone, but it was still an arguement that she had to have...

i have had to explain to more store managers that you CANNOT put the trashcan in front of the door button, because then i cant reach it. seems like common sense, no?

we do take things said here personally, because it is not an abstract concept or a minor detail, like being annoyed with pool hopping, mug swapping, photo-pass sharing women who breastfeed in public (all of which i have seen threads about). none of those people keep you from getting on a ride or seeing a show. but policies to do with the disabled have a much more direct impact, and are a part of our daily lives...

we also find it hard to have people with no disability, or family member/close friend with a disability, making sweeping generalizations about rules in theme parks. while i am all ears for reasonable suggestions, saying things like "these rules suck, they should change them" or "they should just put disabled people on their own bus line" (separate but equal NEVER works), without having experienced disability for themselves.

I encourage people to rent a wheelchair from a local vendor (about $5 a day) and go to your local mall and see how hard it is. I cannot imagine that you would be taking advantage of anything by going to a local mall, unlike trying to use the wheelchair to skip a line at a local amusement park... try pushing yourself and maneuvering through crowds, try paying at a store with a high counter, or weaving through clothing racks FAR too close together. i think a lot of people would benefit from such a learning experience!

PS: this post is not directed at any one person, but is a general idea

 

[Chuck S]

Although by law the bus is full to all, this never happens and the able bodied are allow to board and the disabled guest left to wait alone or with their family. I had one night at PI where I waited alone, in the dark at the farthest bus stop for over 2 hours before I finally loaded on a bus. They were either too full or the lift didn't work. Fiannly a relief driver took pity on me and told the guests on the bus that no one was going anywhere until I was on that bus.

I have never had another bus sent for me. I waited well over an hour at the Poly after dinner one night because the buses were always full (just people, no wheelchairs or scooters so I couldn't get on). After about the 5th bus I asked if they could send one. I was told no. We almost ended up calling a cab because I didn't think I'd ever get out of there. Good thing I didn't have somewhere to be.

As a disabled person myself, I find this aspect of the law incredibly stupid. With global warming, the high cost of fuel, air pollution, etc, to allow a half empty bus to go off and leave people standing is idiotic and I have recently contacted my congressman and two senators and urged them in the strongest possible terms to have this changed. Afterall, if I go to Wal-Mart and all the handicapped parking spaces are full, I do not expect Wal-Mart to close the rest of the parking lot. It is things like this that make the enabled community dislike us.

I agree, I think continuing to load ambulatory people even if the bus can not accommodate another ECV is the smart thing. But at the same time, it is the law.

It was not made to punish ambulatory people, but to insure equal access. Really the law should be changed somehow to limit the wait times of the ECV/WC user in those situations. For instance, assigning a penalty or "free transportation" for a specified period of time on the bus line if the ECV user has to wait more than 15 minutes after the full bus departs.

But for Disney, where busses run quite often, no ECV user should have to wait longer than the next bus, if the first bus is full. Some of Talking Hands' & Phoresenof's experiences with the busses are things that should not be allowed anywhere, especially at Disney.

 

[darlak]

im sorry but can someone please show me where she wished
(no you cant) stop baiting her its bordering on bullying although she can clearly take care of herself

I've been reading this whole thread and I just don't see where Stella3 has been baiting, much less bullying anyone. Why is everyone attacking her? She's as entitled to her opinion as the rest of us are.

How on earth anyone could say this board is kinder now is just beyond me. I think she's made it pretty clear that she respects the rights of everyone except the ones who are cheating the system.

 

[Belle1962]

I think Belle is referring to the fact (with a touch of irony/sarcasm) that no WC or ECV user has started a thread complaining because the able bodied were allowed to board and use a bus that, by law, should be considered full, while a WC user had to wait for another bus

Perhaps because we WC users have the sense to know that another bus should be along shortly, while that bit of knowledge seems to be lost on able bodied people who are complaining about the WC loading process.

Thanks Chuck--I guess I should have added ..."she says with sarcasm and a big smile". While we do respond to threads where this issue is bought up by others we never start a thread complaining about the able bodied. (But we could come up with some winners! )

It is sad to say but most disabled people, and especially the children, learn early on that nothing is "FAIR". Separate but equal does not work; "reasonable accomodation" is open to interpretation; and even the laws that are meant to protect and assist us have huge loopholes in them--ask the parent of any child who is unable to use ANY of the pools at Disney because they are not equipped to meet their specific need. Or who has to fight the local school board to get what is lawfully theirs. Disney is one of the best, if not the best, at "leveling the playing field" so to speak.