No more 'cuts in line' for many disabled Knott's guests

[bumbershoot]

And I still think to quote someone from another thread entirely to make an arguement is bad form. Noone's saying you can't read it or quote it for that matter - I just think it's bad form. And I'm entitled to that opinion.

I'm fairly certain that I've seen the higher-ups here take issue with that as well. Considered attacking, which isn't cool. I hope people wanting to do that are careful, b/c getting in trouble when you didn't mean harm is not fun.

 

[KPeveler]

I was speaking to the OP & the posters with a similar mindset, I htink your posts have been great!!!
Sorry for not being more clear, I was so annoyed after reading some of the responses on here!

oh, thats ok... i just wanted to make sure i hadnt said something that was misunderstood.

and stella - we take it personally because disability is PART of our identity. it is like saying I think we should starting requiring people to pay to go to church, because that will prove who is a dedicated believer and who is a hypocrite. ok, that example is a stretch, but the point is, disability is THAT important to some of us.

it is hardly my entire identity, but it is certainly part of it. i have decided to make it a part of my identity in a constructive way, since my condition is progressive and i will only get worse as time goes on. in 10 years i could well be paralyzed and blind, so i decided to start accepting disability now.

Disney is my haven. disney is the only place i dont feel sick and different. when you suggest to some of us, who rely on disney as a source of happiness, that they make it less accessible for us, it is like attacking a best friend. we feel honor bound to defend it.

disney is so great for disabilities that i plan on working there after grad school. i will be fluent in three languages, including English, with a working knowledge of sign language (enough to direct people to the restroom, not to interpret), and i want to work in city hall as guest services and as an interpreter. i also want to work with ther disabilties services office (or whatever they call it) to try to brainstorm new ways of making things work...

sorry for the typos, hands not working tonight

i also think i should say i am 23 and have EDS and probly MS. i think my illnesses explain some of my attitude and outlook...

anyone, please feel free to PM or post questions about living as a young person with disability... i love honest, open, education debate! also, on these boards, you can ask the embarrassing questions you would never say to someone's face

 

[MandM-Mom]

I think it's bad form to take a discussion on an internet forum so personally that you are posting these: but, whatever.

I can see you are very new to the DIS but thats where the olde saying "put your flame suit on" comes from Say things that are bound to upset people on here and you better put yours on!!! They say how they are feeling and if they are feeling furious they are gonna let you know with our cute little graphics...Thats just how I think a post works but I could be wrong, I know it doesn't happen often but.....

 

[In a hurry]

I have not read all of the responses. I like to think "out of the box" even if I decide that I don't like the idea after all. I enjoy hearing other peoples ideas and usually my original idea evolves.
Here's the idea:
WDw should stop renting wheelchairs/scooters. The people with truly disabling conditions would have their own wheelchair, and the people that think they may need one could rent one from a medical supply company off-site. Their primary doctor should be able to write a prescription and the insurance pay for it. You could get the prescription and decide not to use it.
What would be the pros and cons of this?

That would be inconvenient for the one-day trippers. I didn't know until a couple of days before our trip that I would need one. It was a last minute thing.

 

[disney kid at heart]

Missed where you stated that.

I hope that you notice that most people want the people with needs to have the accessibility required by law. They just are frustrated with the abusers.

Excluding the OP.

I know it's really hard for me to take when I see someone park in the last handicap space, jump out of the car and RUN in the store. I sure wish I could run like that again. But I just say a prayer for them.

 

[Stella3]

I can see you are very new to the DIS but thats where the olde saying "put your flame suit on" comes from Say things that are bound to upset people on here and you better put yours on!!! They say how they are feeling and if they are feeling furious they are gonna let you know with our cute little graphics...Thats just how I think a post works but I could be wrong, I know it doesn't happen often but.....

Hey, it's all good. I thought I was on the SAME side with the disabled people, but it seems that some are still wanting to get hot and bothered and argue.

I think I will see what is happening on the Resort board now, b/c disable people truly do not bother me at WDW. Have a great day!

 

[In a hurry]

Hey, it's all good. I thought I was on the SAME side with the disabled people, but it seems that some are still wanting to get hot and bothered and argue.

I think I will see what is happening on the Resort board now, b/c disable people truly do not bother me at WDW. Have a great day!

The RB scares me. Good luck.

 

[disney kid at heart]

OP here, bolding is mine, while the longer wait is not fair to you how is it fair to me to wait longer if you get on sooner? Everyone should wait the same time period IMO. Maybe your wait would have been shorter if abusers didn't take a place in the handicap line. And for anyone to say the abuse isn't rampant they must live in a fantasy world. Why else would parks have to crack down? FWIW the only abuse I've seen is at Disney. As for bathroom waits well abusers don't take the ECV's/WC's into RR they get off their butts and walk yup seen it and the fight over who gets to ride now when they return!!! Had a co worker who went to Disney 5 months pregnant healthy as a horse got a wheel chair so she didn't have to walk or wait in line because "it's hot in Florida in Auggust". Came back and said they were loaded right on all rides no waits she had a great time. Sickening. As for children with Autism few actually have autism it is the Disease of the day just like ADD/ADHD was in the 90's. Everyone and their brother has a kid who has autism or is "on the spectrum". For those who truly have it I am sorry but again people want an excuse for their childrens undisciplined behaviour and it's become the "disease of the day" there for discounting those poor children that do actually have it.

When I go to the restrooms I have someone helping me in on 1 arm and me holding the wall with the other. And usually have to wait for someone that just wanted a bigger restroom where I need a rail to help me up. So sorry for your anger.

 

[tinkerbell1967]

I swear to god, in the 8x I've been to a Disney park I've never once witnessed any wheelchair party board a ride or a bus, let alone a wheelchair party of a dozen people or more. Either I'm extrodinarily lucky, or I'm totally oblivious. I don't have much luck in life (other than being physically healthy) so I'm betting that I'm totally oblivious. I'm there to have a good time, not worry about what other people are doing. Why do so many of you waste your vacation worrying if the party of 10 with an ECV cut in line for a bus or a ride?

Do I want people abusing the system? No, of course not. But if it happens, it happens and I'm not going to waste my precious vacation time getting upset about it. Do I wonder if the person I see in the ECV really needs it or is faking? Hell no! It's none of my damn business. If they need it, more power to them, if not, well all I have to say is "karma, baby". If they're cheating they'll get what the deserve at some point or another.



So, here's to being oblivious!

wow, I was going to say I have been to Disney 8 times myself and each of those 8 times I have seen huge parties with wheelchairs board the buses, go the front of the lines etc. I don't care that this happens at all and like you said, I'm on vacation and why get upset. The only time I got upset was when I saw a group four young teen boys abuse the system by going to the front of the line then leave the ride laughing and the one that was in the wheelchair jumping up and down after he exited the ride saying "let's see what other rides we can go ride, I like this!" That did tick me off knowing he was abusing the system!!

 

[disney kid at heart]

oh, thats ok... i just wanted to make sure i hadnt said something that was misunderstood.

and stella - we take it personally because disability is PART of our identity. it is like saying I think we should starting requiring people to pay to go to church, because that will prove who is a dedicated believer and who is a hypocrite. ok, that example is a stretch, but the point is, disability is THAT important to some of us.

it is hardly my entire identity, but it is certainly part of it. i have decided to make it a part of my identity in a constructive way, since my condition is progressive and i will only get worse as time goes on. in 10 years i could well be paralyzed and blind, so i decided to start accepting disability now.

Disney is my haven. disney is the only place i dont feel sick and different. when you suggest to some of us, who rely on disney as a source of happiness, that they make it less accessible for us, it is like attacking a best friend. we feel honor bound to defend it.

disney is so great for disabilities that i plan on working there after grad school. i will be fluent in three languages, including English, with a working knowledge of sign language (enough to direct people to the restroom, not to interpret), and i want to work in city hall as guest services and as an interpreter. i also want to work with ther disabilties services office (or whatever they call it) to try to brainstorm new ways of making things work...

sorry for the typos, hands not working tonight

i also think i should say i am 23 and have EDS and probly MS. i think my illnesses explain some of my attitude and outlook...

anyone, please feel free to PM or post questions about living as a young person with disability... i love honest, open, education debate! also, on these boards, you can ask the embarrassing questions you would never say to someone's face

You said it all! Thank you and God Bless You!

 

[crashbb]

You sure about that?

Because on my solo trip when I was alone (but not bored b/c I was taking in all the things there were to see!), I noticed that the elevator is WELL inside the queue. I think the FP line has now moved, but before when I did a child swap you went in the exit. Things were going swimmingly until the "movie" room, which everyone, I was told, has to go through. I don't know where the elevator is from the exit, but I saw an upper and lower elevator pretty far in.

Yup, I'm positive. I was in the standby line, not the fast pass line and it was last October. It was a busy evening and the standby line was using the whole line, so the stairs started almost immediately upon entering the line, no way that someone in a wheelchair (or who just couldn't climb stairs) could have gone through the standby line.

 

[bumbershoot]

Yup, I'm positive. I was in the standby line, not the fast pass line and it was last October. It was a busy evening and the standby line was using the whole line, so the stairs started almost immediately upon entering the line, no way that someone in a wheelchair (or who just couldn't climb stairs) could have gone through the standby line.

I brought up the non-standby line b/c at the time (and maybe now?) rider switch went through the exit, as, I assume, did anyone on wheels. It LOOKS like you're bypassing the entire line, but then whammo you're mainstreamed to watch the movie. That was on our first trip on Indy.

Then in Jan, that's when I saw the family with a member on wheels come in on the side of the movie room (from where exactly I don't know, but since the exit/switch line came in to the regular line right before that room, I assume that's where they came from) and were held for a movie's length worth of time.

I've been thinking more about this, and the elevator is before-ish the stairs that go down, so I assume the wheeled riders + family go in a slightly different line (b/c I didn't see a way over there from the line), into the elevator, and down to right near the area downstairs where walkers all end up.

I'm not saying there is NO time saved, but from the two experiences, it seems that they do try to approximate the length of time.

 

[crashbb]

I brought up the non-standby line b/c at the time (and maybe now?) rider switch went through the exit, as, I assume, did anyone on wheels. It LOOKS like you're bypassing the entire line, but then whammo you're mainstreamed to watch the movie. That was on our first trip on Indy.

Then in Jan, that's when I saw the family with a member on wheels come in on the side of the movie room (from where exactly I don't know, but since the exit/switch line came in to the regular line right before that room, I assume that's where they came from) and were held for a movie's length worth of time.

I've been thinking more about this, and the elevator is before-ish the stairs that go down, so I assume the wheeled riders + family go in a slightly different line (b/c I didn't see a way over there from the line), into the elevator, and down to right near the area downstairs where walkers all end up.

I'm not saying there is NO time saved, but from the two experiences, it seems that they do try to approximate the length of time.

All I can tell you is that when I went, I waited at least 45 minutes in line. From the time the family went past me going up the exit, to the time they went past me going back, it was less than 20 minutes. I know that they went on the ride, because they were discussing it.

Again, it didn't bother me in the least, but the definitely waited less than half of the time that I did. I was in Anaheim for a conference and only had the late afternoon/evening in DL and Indiana Jones fastpasses were gone by the time I got there, or I would not have waited that long (but it was my first, and possibly only trip to DL, so the wait was worth it).

 

[shelby22]

I can't believe this thread is still going! I bowed out last night after I was attacked for offering a suggestion as to how to make things more fair from a waiting standpoint, and being accused of lying. But I'm back because I wanted to share my own experience with having been temporarily disabled and going to an amusement park. Grant it this was a local park and not Disney or Knotts, the park that this whole thread started from.

Right before my senior year of HS so about 7 years ago, I had a knee injury and had to use crutches for the better part of the summer. My step-dads work picnic was in the middle of July on a Saturday and it was hot and the park was packed. I was told to get a pass which would 1. Let me know which rides I could ride with my injury & 2. Permit me and my party access up the exits to those attractions.

Work picnic being a notoriously busy day we'd gone for several years and were lucky to make it on 6 rides in 8 hours. I was permitted to ride 13 of the parks rides with my pass. Going straight up the exit we managed all 13 rides and did the circuit twice. Yes it was a PITA getting around the park and getting up to and into the rides, but we bypassed the 1-2 hour lines everywhere. Even if we did have to wait to get on it was way shorter than the long line at the attraction.

This is why I'm not buying it when you (general you) use the argument that bypassing the line doesn't save any time.

Now let me also add that I have no problem with disabled people bypassing the line. I feel sorry for you and if that makes you a little happier than so be it. I guess I have able-bodied-persons guilt. But please think before you use the argument that it doesn't save time. Maybe at Disney it doesn't since they do have a lot of mainstreamed attraction cues, but at a ton of other parks (maybe Knotts included, don't know never been there) it does.

I wouldn't have minded waiting the 1+ hour in line/outside of line and taking my turn going up the exit if the park had had something like that in place. It seems like the parks that have adjusted their policy have done so to make it more equal for all. Is it the ideal solution? No, otherwise there wouldn't be so much outcry about it, but at least it is something they realize is worth taking a look at.

 

[sha_lyn]

The reason you aren't buying it is because you are refusing to listen to the entire reason.

When you were on crutches, did you have to wait for a particular vehicle at each attraction? I would guess no you did not. You were able to board any of the ride vehicles.
Try waiting around for one of the few accessible vehicles, and then tell us that being in a wheel chair or ECV= shorter wait times.

 

[cmwade77]

Indy is the worst for the wheelchair bound, our wheelchair party once had to wait over an hour for Indy when the regular line was only about 20 minutes, I will not go with anyone in a wheelchair now on Indy.

Wheelchairs and ECVs have to go in the exit, due to the configuration of the FP line, but then that have their own queue before the movie room, so it may look like they are getting on faster, but they are definitely not only two wheelchair parties can be in the movie room or further at a time and many times it does not get communicated when the wheelchair parties leave, so there are often none there and a long line of wheelchairs.

 

[shelby22]

The reason you aren't buying it is because you are refusing to listen to the entire reason.

When you were on crutches, did you have to wait for a particular vehicle at each attraction? I would guess no you did not. You were able to board any of the ride vehicles.
Try waiting around for one of the few accessible vehicles, and then tell us that being in a wheel chair or ECV= shorter wait times.

What special vehicles? We are talking "local" parks here. I don't believe any exist in the parks I've been to, including Hershey. I could be wrong.

I know what you're talking about at Disney because I've seen them, but I've been to a couple of parks and nowhere else have I ever seen special vehicles. Do Knotts and Hershey have special vehicles or must all riders transfer into the ride vehicle at all attractions? I would guess they don't which makes cheating the system more attractive for would be cheaters and that's probably why it's more of an issue for those parks.

 

[sha_lyn]

What special vehicles? We are talking "local" parks here. I don't believe any exist in the parks I've been to, including Hershey. I could be wrong

I guess you missed all the talks about rides at WDW and DL. Those are the parks that posters were talking about when they said they often have to wait longer than the stand-by line. The same exact post that you said you aren't buying. Did you really think that all these posts were about your local park?

 

[cmwade77]

Actually, Knott's previous system was bad as well, no one should ever ant to have to use it, Now Universal Studios in Hollywood has one of the best (and fairest) systems around.

You go up to an attraction, if the wait time is more than 10-20 minutes (depending on the attraction) they give you a return time pass for a time that is as long as the stand-by line, minus the wait time that you will most likely experience when you get back. This setup works well and is fair.

The problem is, with any change to the system in place at DL & WDW right now, it would hurt those that truly need it.z Universal's system does have different types of passes as well for other situations. They just have this time return pass as another option that DL & WDW do not offer.

 

[alizesmom]

I'm an idiot but I keep hoping to see something positive come out of this thread. I'm neither bitter or angry on the accessible issue. Someone wanted another poster to "say how you really feel". What an impossible task. How do you explain a life where the abnormal is the norm? I can watch my son have a seizure that lasts 20min and say to my husband "well at least it wasn't a bad one", I can watch my daughter turn dark blue, change her trach and breath for her until she starts again then sit down and watch more TV. This is my life and it is what it is. Many posters keep saying they have no problem with those who really need it getting accomodations but are only after the abusers. Great, I get it, now tell me how to do it. Some have tried with suggestions and I will respond to a few of them:
1. Have a doctor's order: this can be faked easily, make a letterhead and write your own ticket
2. Bring your own wheelchair: airlines are notorious for damaging wheelchairs and you always fear losing them, sometimes they are your lifeline
3. Get a doctor's order and your insurance will cover the expense: dream on, maybe this should happen but not always
Right now I feel mostly sad. Sad that so many disabled feel they have to fight the same battle repeatedly to prove they are what they are. Sad that so many abled feel taken advantage of. Sad that there are people in the world who have no problem lying and cheating if it gets them what they want no matter who it hurts. Sad that a discussion like this has to become so heated and nasty (on both sides). Like I said when I started this post, I'm an idiot but I think I'll keep hoping.