No more 'cuts in line' for many disabled Knott's guests

[Laura]

I'm not too keen on the way Knott's wants to enforce this. Splitting up a group doesn't sound like much fun. Too bad jerks who are faking disabilities have to ruin it for those who are disabled. I think Disney's policies are pretty fair. They make most of the the lines' paths big enough for folks on wheels, and folks who simply can't wait in line for some reason (like autistic kids) can get a GAC.

My DH was born with clubfeet and, fortunately, didn't have any problems at WDW. He doesn't need a wheelchair now, but standing still for a long period of time really sucks for him. If the line's continually moving, like at Buzz Lightyear or a similar ride, that's fine. But with Fastpass, we didn't have to wait long for anything.

 

[Maleficent13]

Because the person in the main line has no interest in if the ecv/wheelchair party ever rides the ride. Just to be mean and petty (and there are apparently plenty of those people who would love the chance to "get back" at a disabled party for having "bennies" they don't get or for some other injustice they have endured at WDW by a disabled group --i.e. they got on a bus first!!!!!) that group could not bother giving the ride attendant the card or keep passing it further back in line to delay the ecv/wheelchair group.

Seriously? You seriously think that the norm would be for mean and nasty people to deliberately not hand the card to the attendant? That is really, really sad. You can't take the microcosm of this 100 post thread and extrapolate it to the real world. I have been handed the "ride time" card to give to the cast member up front before and they never tell me what it's for; they just hand it to me and ask me to hand it in up front. If I wasn't a DISboard member, I'd still not know why I was carrying a card from the back to the front of the line. So I think this idea has merit.

I have not witnessed any abuse at WDW, but then I'm not looking for it. And even if I did see a party of 15 with a wheelchair load anything, bus or ride, before me, I would not care one bit. I'm at Disney. It's all good.

 

[SandraVB79]

I'm at Disney. It's all good.

If only everyone had that mindset, people would get less frustrated

 

[DawnCt1]

How did I know? Because I would see the same family at different areas of the parks, switching the wheel chair rider.QUOTE]

Wow--hope you never see me at a park. As part of my therapy routine I have to walk/hobble--however you want to describe it---for very small parts of the day (although I am trying to work up to larger parts of the day . Since I use an ecv and I can't just walk off and leave it I will often ask someone else in my party to move it (ride in it) while I exercise/walk.

Since you use an ECV one can assume that you probably need it. When I see various family members, teens, children, etc. switching in and out of Disney owned, pushed wheel chairs and bopping around without a care in the world, my "suspicious nature" kicks in.

 

[DawnCt1]

I want to address this for a minute. Both my husband and I have walking disabilities. Mine are worse than his but he can't do a full day of walking in the parks and neither can I. We only rent one ecv and we do switch off. When one starts getting real tired and having problems we switch. We could get 2 ecv's but holy cow what a nightmare that would be! I couldn't even imagine trying to deal with the buses. How many buses would we have to cycle through until there was an opening for 2 ecv's on a bus. Never mind trying to "walk" side by side or shop together. Way too hard and it would seriously impact our vacation. Yes, someday it will come down to that I'm sure but until we don't go with our children we will continue to switch off.
So if you should see my and my hubby in the parks sharing an ecv, please don't be too quick to judge. I should add too that my son (18) has horrible knee problems and has a hard time doing a full day of walking too.

Again, if someone goes to the expense of procuring ECV, I have no doubts that they need it, but believe me, I have heard people talk about renting wheelchairs to get to the front of the line. I have seen it. I realize that there are all kinds of disabilities, respiratory, cardiac, arthritis, etc that aren't clearly visable to the casual observer but it is naive to think that abuse doesn't happen on a frequent basis.

 

[phorsenuf]

Actually though when you think about it it all boils down to the government. They are the one that started HIPPA so now the parks can't even ask for proof of need. If it could all fall back to that then problem solved. So abuse will continue, just like in everything. Its really a no win situation for everyone involved so I guess its up to us to make the best of our vacations.

 

[Hoodie]

This is an interesting approach to this issue. I've seen the abuse at WDW more times than I can count. It's sad because the abusers cast a pall on those who are truly disabled. They have enough battles without battling the perception of fraud as well.

I know most lines at the newer WDW parks are inclusive, but I'm not sure that's the best way either. It's not the wheelchairs that are a problem but the electric scooter. I can't tell you how many times my heels were clipped, my toes were runover or I was literally crashed ino by a ECV in a slow moving ride. My 4 year old cousin was literally run over while waiting for a parade. I think having a "return back at this time" is fine. A special fast pass, so to speak.

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

It's not the wheelchairs that are a problem but the electric scooter. I can't tell you how many times my heels were clipped, my toes were runover or I was literally crashed ino by a ECV in a slow moving ride.

I think the bigger problem is most of the people on scooters at WDW have either never used them before or have used them only rarely. They don't know how to drive them. You can tell the pros from the amateurs, that's for sure.

 

[Geoff_M]

One thing is certain, issues like this are going to be more and more in the forefront as we continue the trend towards becoming a more and more "immobile" society. When we last went to WDW in 2007, it was amazing the explosion I saw in the use of wheelchairs and scooters over two years previous. The riders are also getting younger and younger. This was no more apparent then on the buses.

Most of the WDW buses have positions for 2 wheelchairs (IIRC). In past trips we'd see those slots used by guests some of the time. However, I didn't recall them being used by multiple riders at the same time. In 2007 however, it was rare that none of the spaces were being used when we rodes WDW buses, and quite often both of the places were used. Several times, buses we were on were at wheelchair "capacity" when they pulled up to another stop and had to tell a guest waiting in a chair "Sorry!"

I honestly think that this trend is going to eventually require a redesign of the WDW buses to allow for more guests in chairs/scooters and might even require more buses on the routes to accommodate the the time it takes for the drivers to raise the seating and strap guests' chairs down before proceeding.

This isn't to pass any judgment of people using such assistance, but just from our observations it appears that the changes in our society's ability to get around under its own power is starting to have some effects.

 

[cmwade77]

I can recall being extremely annoyed at those "faking it". How did I know? Because I would see the same family at different areas of the parks, switching the wheel chair rider.

I too hope you are not there when we are, both DW amd I have issues and ocassionally, if she is doing really good and I am not, we will switch. As stated previously, I have not had to rent a separate ECV yet as a result. Now the ones that DO bother me are ones that get a GAC for themselves (I am sure this part is legit) and then don't want to ride something, so they give their GAC to another member of their party and say "here use my pass" I have seen thiis happen, I always let the CM at the attraction know, but they don't usually do anything about it. Now this person who does not have any special needs is taking up space in the line for those with GACs. I truly wish Disney would either print the person's picture on the GAC or ask for I.d. each time it is used. If the other person does have some sort of need, they should be getting their own GAC just in case this happens.

 

[cmwade77]

This is an interesting approach to this issue. I've seen the abuse at WDW more times than I can count. It's sad because the abusers cast a pall on those who are truly disabled. They have enough battles without battling the perception of fraud as well.

I know most lines at the newer WDW parks are inclusive, but I'm not sure that's the best way either. It's not the wheelchairs that are a problem but the electric scooter. I can't tell you how many times my heels were clipped, my toes were runover or I was literally crashed ino by a ECV in a slow moving ride. My 4 year old cousin was literally run over while waiting for a parade. I think having a "return back at this time" is fine. A special fast pass, so to speak.

Now how do you know who is abusing it? Really there is very little abuse, except as stated in my prvious post and that has an easy fix.

Also, 9 times out of 10 the abled bodied person is the one at fault, they stand too close to an ECV/Wheelchair, stop right in front of them, etc. remember these things do not stop on a dime or going downhill very well. People in ECVs/wheelchairs get defensive of a space they have been in for an hour waiting for a parade and then someone decides to stand right in front of them or place their child on the back of a $3000 ECV 5 minutes before the parade and are considered rude for not letting people take advantage of them, no reason to run into someone, but to say excuse me, I was here first is not being rude!

 

[SueM in MN]

Again, if someone goes to the expense of procuring ECV, I have no doubts that they need it, but believe me, I have heard people talk about renting wheelchairs to get to the front of the line. I have seen it. I realize that there are all kinds of disabilities, respiratory, cardiac, arthritis, etc that aren't clearly visable to the casual observer but it is naive to think that abuse doesn't happen on a frequent basis.

This is a list of Mainstream Attractions from the WDW website.
Mainstream Lines are lines that are accessible and people with wheelchairs and ECVs wait in the same line with everyone else.
Magic Kingdom® Park
• Ariel's Grotto
• Astro Orbiter
• Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin
• Donald's Boat
• Judge's Tent
• Mickey's Country House
• Mickey's PhilharMagic
• Minnie's Country House
• Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor
• Pirates of the Caribbean
• Space Mountain®
• Splash Mountain®
• Stitch's Great Escape!™
• "The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management"
• The Hall of Presidents
• The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
• The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
• Tomorrowland® Indy Speedway
• Toontown Hall of Fame
• Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress (seasonal)
Epcot®
• FUTURE WORLD
• Imagination!: All Attractions
• Innoventions East
• Innoventions West
• Mission: SPACE
• Test Track
• The Seas with Nemo & Friends: All Attractions
• The Land: All Attractions
• Universe of Energy: "Ellen's Energy Adventure"
• Wonders of Life: All Attractions (seasonal)
•
•
• WORLD SHOWCASE
• China: "Reflections of China"
• France: "Impressions de France"
• FriendShip Boats
• Norway: Maelstrom
• The American Adventure: "The American Adventure"
Disney's Hollywood Studios™
• Disney's Hollywood Studios™ Backlot Tour
• Fantasmic!
• Lights, Motors, Action!™ Extreme Stunt Show
• Muppet*Vision 3D
• Playhouse Disney - Live On Stage!
• Rock 'n' Roller Coaster® Starring Aerosmith
• Sounds Dangerous - Starring Drew Carey
• Star Tours
• The Great Movie Ride
• The Magic of Disney Animation
• "The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror™"
• *Voyage of the Little Mermaid
• Walt Disney: One Man's Dream
Disney's Animal Kingdom® Theme Park
• Caravan Stage: "Flights of Wonder"
• DINOSAUR
• Expedition Everest™
• Finding Nemo - The Musical
• Grandmother Willow's Grove: "Pocahontas and Her forest friends"
• It's Tough To Be A Bug
• Kali River Rapids
• Kilimanjaro Safaris
• Lion King Theater: "Festival of the Lion King"
• Maharajah Jungle Trek
• Primeval Whirl
• The Boneyard
• TriceraTop Spin

As I pointed out back a few pages, someone in a Mainstream Line , like the Nemo ride at Epcot, waits in the same line with everyone else. If they don't need a wheelchair accessible car, they will get into the next clamshell that comes along - just like everyone else.
But, if they have to wait for the accessible clamshell, they end up letting about 37 people ahead of them for each minute they wait (assuming the ride capacity is 2200 people per hour as Wikipedica lists).
If we waited for 5 minutes at the boarding area, that means we let 183 people ahead of us because they could board the next clamshell that came along and we could not.
The same thing happens in rides like Buzz Lightyear or Imagination, where people with wheelchairs board at the exit - but they are routed to the exit just before the line gets to the regular boarding area. For people who can get out of their wheelchair and board a regular car, they will get on in about the same amount of time as a non-disabled guest.
That often means that while we are at the exit waiting for the wheelchair car, we see the people who were in line right before us in the regular line getting off while we are still waiting.

 

[SueM in MN]

Actually though when you think about it it all boils down to the government. They are the one that started HIPPA so now the parks can't even ask for proof of need. If it could all fall back to that then problem solved. So abuse will continue, just like in everything. Its really a no win situation for everyone involved so I guess its up to us to make the best of our vacations.

HIPAA has nothing to do with it.
It stands for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act and has to do with the security of information in your medical record and who can have access to is. If you wanted to have your medical diagnosis tattoed on your face so everyone could see, there is no problem with that. And there is not problem with someone voluntarily sharing their disability information with the CMs at WDW.
The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) specifies that people can't be forced to provide proof of disability to get the assistance they need. So, I don't need to prove each time I go into a store, ride, movie, etc. that my DD has cerebral palsy and can't walk so she needs her wheelchair. This may not seem like it would be a problem when people without disabilities look at it, but how would the average person who wears glasses like to have to provide some proof (like in the form of carrying their prescription around all the time) that they really need glasses. That might be an extreme example, but my DD's wheelchair is a adaptation to make up for her inability to walk, just like glasses are an adaptation for someone whose eyes have an inability to focus without glasses so they can see clearly.

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

This isn't to pass any judgment of people using such assistance, but just from our observations it appears that the changes in our society's ability to get around under its own power is starting to have some effects.

I agree.

 

[phorsenuf]

HIPAA has nothing to do with it.
It stands for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act and has to do with the security of information in your medical record and who can have access to is. If you wanted to have your medical diagnosis tattoed on your face so everyone could see, there is no problem with that. And there is not problem with someone voluntarily sharing their disability information with the CMs at WDW.
The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) specifies that people can't be forced to provide proof of disability to get the assistance they need. So, I don't need to prove each time I go into a store, ride, movie, etc. that my DD has cerebral palsy and can't walk so she needs her wheelchair. This may not seem like it would be a problem when people without disabilities look at it, but how would the average person who wears glasses like to have to provide some proof (like in the form of carrying their prescription around all the time) that they really need glasses. That might be an extreme example, but my DD's wheelchair is a adaptation to make up for her inability to walk, just like glasses are an adaptation for someone whose eyes have an inability to focus without glasses so they can see clearly.

I'm sorry, I thought it was HIPPA. I've seen that talked about before in threads like this. I'm disabled too so I know how it is. I am one with an invisible disability so that to me makes it worse. I get the looks, the sneers, the comments. All I meant was its just too bad there couldn't be a better way to enforce things so the cheaters can be weeded out.

 

[Hoodie]

Now how do you know who is abusing it? Really there is very little abuse, except as stated in my prvious post and that has an easy fix.

Also, 9 times out of 10 the abled bodied person is the one at fault, they stand too close to an ECV/Wheelchair, stop right in front of them, etc. remember these things do not stop on a dime or going downhill very well. People in ECVs/wheelchairs get defensive of a space they have been in for an hour waiting for a parade and then someone decides to stand right in front of them or place their child on the back of a $3000 ECV 5 minutes before the parade and are considered rude for not letting people take advantage of them, no reason to run into someone, but to say excuse me, I was here first is not being rude!

First, the crashing into me, etc. was almost always in line. I would say that an ECV is like a car - if you can't stop it in time then you need to be further back. You are responsible for your vehicle, not me. A line stops and starts and if you are going to enter it with a vehicle, be prepared for that. Second, my cousin was run over by an EVC user after WE had been standing and waiting for the parade. The user came up about 5 minutes before the parade started and decided they needed to be up front to see it. We reported her to a CM since she literally bowled people over to get to a spot up front. Third, as many pp have stated, we saw multiple times with groups of well over 10 people using the single person in the EVC to board buses first, cut up in front of lines etc. I have also seen families with a wheelchair in the MK that miraculously didn't need one in AK where it doesn't buy them front of the line status. Perhaps the worst abuse I've ever seen wasn't at Disney, but on an airplane going there. There were 8 wheel chair bound individuals that needed assistance to get to the plane and preboard. Miraculously, on the other end only 2 people needed wheelchair assistance to get off the plane and depart the airport. That's right, a 75% cure rate flying to Florida. Southwest could make a fortune if it advertised that benefit.

 

[breezy1077]

I have never seen such callousness and jealousy directed toward handicapped individuals .

Ok, because there are abuses to the system - let's have it "your" way and let Disney get rid of special accommadations. There are "you" happy?

Are you happy that you no longer have the slightest inconvenience?

Are you happy that thousands of people and children will no longer be able to vacation at the place you love so much.

Are you happy that the siblings of handicapped children will no longer have their dream of going to the happiest place on earth come true

Are you happy that the autistic child who shows tremendous strides made just with their trips to Disney not be afforded the opportunity to progress

Art you happy that the terminally ill child is not able to experience Disney for the last or only time

Are you happy that the folks who pay the same amount as you do to enjoy the parks, don't get to enjoy them



Yes lets make the ones who really need it pay for the abuses.

Think about that the next time "You" have to wait a few extra minutes for a ride or bus.

I hope "your" happy.

 

[sha_lyn]

I have also seen families with a wheelchair in the MK that miraculously didn't need one in AK where it doesn't buy them front of the line status.

Repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. Most lines are wheelchair ECV accessible. Even for the ones that are not, the wait at the exit is very often longer than the wait in line, due to the limited number of handicap accessible ride vehicles.

How difficult is it for you to understand that not everyone that uses a wheelchair/EVC needs one 24/7?
These posts remind me of one DIS'ers story. I can't remember the specifics but apparently a rude busy-body thought that since they saw the DIS'ers DD cross her legs, that she shouldn't be in a wheelchair. Never mind the fact that the child can not stand up at all on her own. Just the fact that she could cross her legs meant she didn't need a wheel chair.

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

I have never seen such callousness and jealousy directed toward handicapped individuals .

Ok, because there are abuses to the system - let's have it "your" way and let Disney get rid of special accommadations. There are "you" happy?

Are you happy that you no longer have the slightest inconvenience?

Are you happy that thousands of people and children will no longer be able to vacation at the place you love so much.

Are you happy that the siblings of handicapped children will no longer have their dream of going to the happiest place on earth come true

Are you happy that the autistic child who shows tremendous strides made just with their trips to Disney not be afforded the opportunity to progress

Art you happy that the terminally ill child is not able to experience Disney for the last or only time

Are you happy that the folks who pay the same amount as you do to enjoy the parks, don't get to enjoy them



Yes lets make the ones who really need it pay for the abuses.

Think about that the next time "You" have to wait a few extra minutes for a ride or bus.

I hope "your" happy.

????

I've seen no one suggest that terminally ill children or anyone else not be able to enjoy Disney. What I have seen is people getting offended when it is pointed out that there are problems with the current system. There are problems; if there weren't companies wouldn't be trying to find solutions. There's a middle ground. It doesn't have to be all or nothing and there is room for compromise on both sides of this debate.

 

[KPeveler]

First, the crashing into me, etc. was almost always in line. I would say that an ECV is like a car - if you can't stop it in time then you need to be further back. You are responsible for your vehicle, not me. A line stops and starts and if you are going to enter it with a vehicle, be prepared for that. Second, my cousin was run over by an EVC user after WE had been standing and waiting for the parade. The user came up about 5 minutes before the parade started and decided they needed to be up front to see it. We reported her to a CM since she literally bowled people over to get to a spot up front. Third, as many pp have stated, we saw multiple times with groups of well over 10 people using the single person in the EVC to board buses first, cut up in front of lines etc. I have also seen families with a wheelchair in the MK that miraculously didn't need one in AK where it doesn't buy them front of the line status. Perhaps the worst abuse I've ever seen wasn't at Disney, but on an airplane going there. There were 8 wheel chair bound individuals that needed assistance to get to the plane and preboard. Miraculously, on the other end only 2 people needed wheelchair assistance to get off the plane and depart the airport. That's right, a 75% cure rate flying to Florida. Southwest could make a fortune if it advertised that benefit.

you dont get front of line in MK, and you will see me miraculously not needing one in TL, BB, PI, and DHS at times... that is because my illness still allows me to walk, sometimes. therefore i save my walking strength for water parks and pleasure island. i am young, pretty, and healthy looking. when i walk, i do so looking like everyone else. do you think i am faking? would you if you saw me?

the term "wheelchair bound' in general, is not considered a very polite term anymore (just to let you know - i dont mind, but some people get offended). i preboard using a airline wheelchair, but walk off on my own too. that is because they load my personal chair and i walk off to where it is waiting for me. however, i cannot wait in line and need to preboard because i need certain seats.