No homework ever...wwyd?

[punkin]

DD8 is in a montessori school in 4th grade. She has practically no HW. I suffered through many years of useless busywork with DD14 in grade school and most of middle school. She is now in 10th grade and MOST of the homework assigned actually makes sense.

I completely agree that homework is useless until middle school; some minor homework should be assigned in middle school (less than 1 hour per day). HS is an entirely different animal and the kids do need HW like reading assignments to facilitate classroom discussion, math problems for cementing understanding of concepts covered in class, etc. However, feel they assign too much HW in HS as well. My poor DD14 has at least 3 hours EVERY night (sometimes more) and IMO half the stuff is pure fluff.

 

[Pigeon]

As for the DARE program, I would like to see your source for your information on how kids that take DARE are more likely to use drugs. I know for my kids it has scared the crap out of them and I am thankful for that!

OK, here's a sample of the studies that have been published in the peer-reviewed literature that have looked at DARE objectively:

Rosenbaum, Dennis P., and Gordon S. Hanson. Assessing the effects of school-based drug education: A six-year multilevel analysis of project D.A.R.E. Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency, 1998, 35(4), 381-412...Suburban participation in D.A.R.E. is associated with an increased level of drug use of 3 to 5 percentage points on average, depending on the type of drug...

Clayton, R.R., Cattarelloa, .M. AND Johnstone AM. The effectiveness of drug abuse resistance education(ProjectDARE): 5 year follow
up results Prev. Med. 25: 307-318, 1996.

Dukes RL., Ullman JB. AND Stein JA. Three-year follow-up of drug
abuse resistance education( D.A.R.E.). Eval. Rev. 20: 49-66, 1996.


Ennett, S.T., Tobler, N.S., Ringwalt, C.L. AND Flewelling, R.L.
How effective is drug abuse resistance education?A meta-analysis of
Project DARE outcome evaluations. Amer. J. .Publ. Hlth 84:1394-1401,
1994.

This is a report by the Government Accounting Office, that bastion of progressive thinking:

Youth Illicit Drug Use Prevention: DARE Long-Term Evaluations and Federal Efforts to Identify Effective Programs http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03172r.pdf


I don't have a negative attitude toward school. Quite the contrary--dh and I are both educators, and are enormous supporters of quality public education.

What I have a negative attitude about are the completely boneheaded things that schools do. I believe in evidence-based educational practices. Unfortunately, far too many school administrators are very poorly read in the literature of their field and lack intellectual curiosity and critical thinking skills.

 

[manning]

4th grade teacher here.
I would not give homework at all if it wasn't required by my district. We are expected to give 40 minutes (10 minutes per grade level) in 4th grade. And we must note all homework assignments in our plan book. Homework is 10% of the final marking period grade. Works out good for the kids that have parents that do it for them, but not so good for the kids that have zero parental support.

My personal belief is that after working in school all day, kids should have down time. I understand why many of them have a hostile attitude about doing work in class. They work from 9-3 and then are expected to go home and do more.

Your district is being run by a bunch a DUDS!!!!!

Homework is 10% of the final marking period grade.

This has never made sense to me. If a student does 'A' work and tests out as 'A' then they should get an 'A'.

 

[manning]

Didn't read everything about not functioning without a computer. I ran into this once at a restaurant when the computer went down. They were using paper and pencil to figure out change and the line was out the door.

I showed the manager a simple trick of making change. IE the bill is four bucks and given a 20 dollar bill just start counting change from four up to 20.

They were amazed and wondered why they didn't teach that in school.

Matter of fact why don't they teach this.

Without reading everything hope I'm not posting out in left field.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

As for the DARE program, I would like to see your source for your information on how kids that take DARE are more likely to use drugs. I know for my kids it has scared the crap out of them and I am thankful for that!

I truly feel sorry for your children with your negative attitude toward school. It is really going to hurt them in the long run.

Here is some info on DARE -
D.A.R.E. is ineffective and/or has the opposite effect of promoting drug use
The most common criticism of the D.A.R.E program is that it is ineffective, and that there is no proof that students who go through the D.A.R.E. program are any less likely to use drugs.[19] The U.S. Surgeon General's office, the National Academy of Sciences,[20] the U.S. General Accountability Office (GAO), the National Institute of Justice,[21] and the California Legislative Analyst's Office[22] have also concluded that the program is ineffective.[23] Researchers at Indiana University, commissioned by Indiana school officials in 1992, found that those who completed the D.A.R.E. program subsequently had significantly higher rates of hallucinogenic drug use than those not exposed to the program.[24]

Research by Dr. Dennis Rosenbaum,[25] found that D.A.R.E. graduates were more likely than others to drink alcohol, smoke tobacco and use illegal drugs. Other researchers have also found D.A.R.E. to be counterproductive.[26] The U.S. General Accountability Office has concluded that the program is sometimes counterproductive in some populations, with those who graduate from D.A.R.E. later having higher rates of drug use.

Psychologist Dr. William Colson has asserted that D.A.R.E. increases drug awareness so that "as they get a little older, they become very curious about these drugs they've learned about from police officers."[27] The scientific research evidence to date indicates that the officers are unsuccessful in preventing the increased awareness and curiosity from being translated into illegal use. That fact may explain why some research has found the D.A.R.E. program to be associated with increased use of drugs. The evidence suggests that, by exposing young impressionable children to drugs, the program is in fact encouraging and nurturing drug use.[28]

 

[Daxx]

As far as computer classes go ... what is taught must depend on the school. In our school, my Kdg. students use the "Reader Rabbit" program for computer classes. They play games where they have to match upper and lower case letters, count the items and click onto the correct number, etc. They do not go on-line or play games. Everything they play has some educational value to it. The upper levels often do research for projects. Right now, the 3rd graders have chosen an animal to research for science class and they are using the computers to answer questions about their animal (habitat, what it eats, etc.) and will use the computer to type their reports. I know that the upper levels are given a variety of things to research and get answers to on the computer ... sort of like a scavenger hunt and each hunt pertains to a certain part of their curriculum. I know that they also teach the children how to properly type (as you would in a typing class).

For many of my students (prob. 14 out of 16) and many of the other students in my school, this is the only time they get to use a computer. As many of you know, I teach in a low socio-economic area and most do not have computers at home. To deny these children time on the computer would be detremental to them in the long run.

If you're all for taking away computer classes and feel they're a waste of time, do you feel the same way about art, music, gym and library?

 

[Pigeon]

Ok, as for pledge... Let me tell you what I have seen.

First the pledge (30 seconds or so)
Then the school pledge (30 seconds or so)
Then the IB theme ( 1-2 minutes)
Then the character word of the month explanation complete with examples (2-3 minutes)

This will take about 5 minutes before everything is all said and done.

This is my observation from timing the announcements and the pledge in my child's school, too. Again, it's not much time out of a single day, but it translates into about 200 hours wasted over the course of a child's K-12 career.

If you're all for taking away computer classes and feel they're a waste of time, do you feel the same way about art, music, gym and library?

I'm not against taking away computer classes for older kids. For the little ones, however, it is a waste of time. My kids had Reader Rabbit, too. But we recognize it for the entertainment that it is. Any skills or knowledge imparted are purely accidental. Much more learning could take place in the time the kids are playing with the computers. As for the necessity of children learning how to use computers, yes, they should learn computer skills when they are older. But really, it's just not that difficult to do.

I absolutely support classes in art, music and gym.

I think elementary school libraries tend to be underfunded and are generally badly done. Many now place a great emphasis on making the kids take out books that the teachers and/or librarians deem to be the "correct" reading level for them, and disallowing them to take out books that don't get the seal of approval.

I noticed that my oldest would take out the same two books every week from the school library. She never looked at them. When I asked her why, she told me that she knew the librarian would approve these two books, and it irritated her when the librarian wouldn't let her take out others. So, she just kept checking out the same two to mollify the librarian.

Since we go to the public library at least weekly, and let the kids pick out a tote bag full of books at a time and actually read them, I guess we've all come to the decision that the school library is pretty irrelevant to our family. I can see the value in having school libraries for kids whose parents aren't library users, but wish school librarians were a little more progressive, and a little less like librarians used to be 50 years ago.

 

[Cindy B]

This is my observation from timing the announcements and the pledge in my child's school, too. Again, it's not much time out of a single day, but it translates into about 200 hours wasted over the course of a child's K-12 career.




.

I have to agree. Sometimes the principals get so winded about the character word of the week it lasts longer than 5 minutes.

It does take a long time.

I'm on the same page about elmentary libraries as well. I still recall the time that my daughter brought home a student self created fanzine riddled with grammatical/copy editors as a "book" from the school library. I wrote the principal about why this type of fanzine was considered "library" material.

The principal stated that it was student created therefore it should be in the school library. I responded by saying this was a creative piece that is not recognized by the ALA and/or peer reviewed for quality, scope and connection to the curriculum. The principal then responded saying that the authors mother was the peer reviewer (not certified school personnel). I then responded back that since this school has not met AYP --annual yearly progress for Language Arts this type of material should not be allowed to be distributed as "literature". I had no problem with the creative pieces being in the library to review--like a creative corner, but to call them literature in a library setting when the school has failed language arts on standardized tests is just plain wrong.

The principal has not spoken to me since and this was last year.

 

[Pigeon]

The principal then responded saying that the authors mother was the peer reviewer (not certified school personnel).

The principal has not spoken to me since and this was last year.

Another school administrator who doesn't even know what the term peer reviewed means!

Don't worry, my kids' principal isn't talking to me, either, once I refused permission for dd to waste her time in DARE.

 

[Mkrop]

I think elementary school libraries tend to be underfunded and are generally badly done. Many now place a great emphasis on making the kids take out books that the teachers and/or librarians deem to be the "correct" reading level for them, and disallowing them to take out books that don't get the seal of approval.

I noticed that my oldest would take out the same two books every week from the school library. She never looked at them. When I asked her why, she told me that she knew the librarian would approve these two books, and it irritated her when the librarian wouldn't let her take out others. So, she just kept checking out the same two to mollify the librarian.

Since we go to the public library at least weekly, and let the kids pick out a tote bag full of books at a time and actually read them, I guess we've all come to the decision that the school library is pretty irrelevant to our family. I can see the value in having school libraries for kids whose parents aren't library users, but wish school librarians were a little more progressive, and a little less like librarians used to be 50 years ago.

I volunteer in the school library once a week.(not a librarian just a mom) Cmon you have to tell me that the library only carried two books that would suit your DD and the librarian . I feel your DD did not try hard enough. Our librarians restrict certain sections of the library to the younger kids bc they will take out the book and not read it bc it is too hard for them. As they get older, she "opens" more sections to them. I have had several kids take books out that were not grade appropriate and when I asked them how they were most had not read them. Off the top of my head the Harry Potter and Eragon books were taken out and they were deemed too much by the child themselves, so sometimes I think librarians DO know what they are doing. Recently the 4th grade class had to choose a fiction book to do their book report, so they were reminded where the fiction books were. I had more than a dozen come up to me and ask me "what" they should read and I said anything on that whole wall and they looked overwhelmed, so then we broke it down into what subjects interest them, sports, mysteries, science fiction etc. Sometimes when you give the kids too many choices it becomes overwhleming and they wind up choosing nothing or taking forever to choose!

 

[Cindy B]

Another school administrator who doesn't even know what the term peer reviewed means!

Don't worry, my kids' principal isn't talking to me, either, once I refused permission for dd to waste her time in DARE.

My DH is on the principals persona non grata list as well. I'm suprised we are even allowed in the building sometimes.

 

[Pigeon]

I volunteer in the school library once a week.(not a librarian just a mom) Cmon you have to tell me that the library only carried two books that would suit your DD and the librarian . I feel your DD did not try hard enough. Our librarians restrict certain sections of the library to the younger kids bc they will take out the book and not read it bc it is too hard for them. As they get older, she "opens" more sections to them. I have had several kids take books out that were not grade appropriate and when I asked them how they were most had not read them. Off the top of my head the Harry Potter and Eragon books were taken out and they were deemed too much by the child themselves, so sometimes I think librarians DO know what they are doing. Recently the 4th grade class had to choose a fiction book to do their book report, so they were reminded where the fiction books were. I had more than a dozen come up to me and ask me "what" they should read and I said anything on that whole wall and they looked overwhelmed, so then we broke it down into what subjects interest them, sports, mysteries, science fiction etc. Sometimes when you give the kids too many choices it becomes overwhleming and they wind up choosing nothing or taking forever to choose!

You miss the point completely. Rather than imparting a love of books and reading, the librarian's policy of micromanaging the children's book selections turned my kid off from using the library completely. She only took out the same two books because she didn't want to have her reading selections critiqued by the librarian, and she knew these books would get her out of the library without a hassle.

When we go to the public library, the kids can take any books they like out of the children's room, and they select dozens with great enthusiasm. Some are a shade too hard for them. Either they stretch themselves with their reading or we read them together. Some are too easy, but reading them doesn't hurt, and can improve fluency. The point is, they are books that interest the kids and the kids get fired up about reading.

I am a university librarian, and I do a great deal of teaching. Many kids get to the university and have a dreadful opinion of libraries, books and reading because it is presented to them as a chore rather than a joy by school librarians over the years.

 

[Mkrop]

You miss the point completely. Rather than imparting a love of books and reading, the librarian's policy of micromanaging the children's book selections turned my kid off from using the library completely. She only took out the same two books because she didn't want to have her reading selections critiqued by the librarian, and she knew these books would get her out of the library without a hassle.

When we go to the public library, the kids can take any books they like out of the children's room, and they select dozens with great enthusiasm. Some are a shade too hard for them. Either they stretch themselves with their reading or we read them together. Some are too easy, but reading them doesn't hurt, and can improve fluency. The point is, they are books that interest the kids and the kids get fired up about reading.

I am a university librarian, and I do a great deal of teaching. Many kids get to the university and have a dreadful opinion of libraries, books and reading because it is presented to them as a chore rather than a joy by school librarians over the years.

Well I disagree. I dont see the micromanaging turning any of these kids off to reading, they are psyched to take out their books and even more psyched when they open a new section for them to explore. I know you are more professionally trained then I am but as a mom there every week for the last 3 years and seeing how the reading levels of these kids have been developed, I see nothing wrong with micromanging. Like I said I saw more kids take out stuff that was beyond them bc it was the latest thing and not read it then take out something they could handle. Many of these kids did not have parents that would read it to them if the book was too hard.

 

[Cindy B]

Well I disagree. I dont see the micromanaging turning any of these kids off to reading, they are psyched to take out their books and even more psyched when they open a new section for them to explore. I know you are more professionally trained then I am but as a mom there every week for the last 3 years and seeing how the reading levels of these kids have been developed, I see nothing wrong with micromanging. Like I said I saw more kids take out stuff that was beyond them bc it was the latest thing and not read it then take out something they could handle. Many of these kids did not have parents that would read it to them if the book was too hard.

I have been the subject of librarians micromanaging content. I have always been a voracious reader. In fact, when I was a child, I read the entire children's library one summer. Yes, I read every book in that entire town children's library. Once I read all the books, I went over to the adult library (the other building) and demanded that I would be allowed to read the adult books. I was a 5th grader! I went as a 10 year old, and got out anything I could get my hands on: Steven King, Gone with the Wind, and LL Baum. However, I had to prove that I had read all the appropriate books in the children's library.

 

[Mkrop]

I have been the subject of librarians micromanaging content. I have always been a voracious reader. In fact, when I was a child, I read the entire children's library one summer. Yes, I read every book in that entire town children's library. Once I read all the books, I went over to the adult library (the other building) and demanded that I would be allowed to read the adult books. I was a 5th grader! I went as a 10 year old, and got out anything I could get my hands on: Steven King, Gone with the Wind, and LL Baum. However, I had to prove that I had read all the appropriate books in the children's library.

Well I know we are getting OT here. Sorry!

But even though DS10 is a voracious reader and CAN read things above his grade level, I dont think as a mom I want my 10 year old reading Stephen King YET! I went through my King phase about Jr yr of HS and I still have nightmares about some of his books. I am drawing a blank right now but esp the one about the world ending and everyone moving to Vegas and it was basically a good vs evil thing. And DS10 has a slight fear of dogs I can only imagine if he read Cujo!

 

[Cindy B]

Well I know we are getting OT here. Sorry!

But even though DS10 is a voracious reader and CAN read things above his grade level, I dont think as a mom I want my 10 year old reading Stephen King YET! I went through my King phase about Jr yr of HS and I still have nightmares about some of his books. I am drawing a blank right now but esp the one about the world ending and everyone moving to Vegas and it was basically a good vs evil thing. And DS10 has a slight fear of dogs I can only imagine if he read Cujo!

In the summer between 5th and 6th grade, I read my favorite King book. The Dead Zone still remains to be one of my favorite books.

 

[Kath2003]

I read Judy Blume's "Forever" in 5th grade - I borrowed it from an older friend.

 

[Cindy B]

I read Judy Blume's "Forever" in 5th grade - I borrowed it from an older friend.

I read it that summer as well--- but I checked it out of the library. Believe it or not that was in the children's library.

 

[Mkrop]

I read Judy Blume's "Forever" in 5th grade - I borrowed it from an older friend.

8th grade for me, passed it around in Catholic school, we got in wee bit of trouble of the one

 

[Kath2003]

I read Louise Bagshaw's "Career Girls" in 8th grade. That most certainly was an education

If you've not read it, ladies, I'd recommend it to a friend. In fact, I recommended it to ALL my friends, so much so I had to buy a new copy because the old one was so worn out