No Debates About The Illegal Immigrants Issue?

wvrevy said:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." ... but only if they speak English and are willing to work at menial jobs for less than minimum wage. :rolleyes:

:sad2: This country has become a farce. A sad parody of itself, conquering other nations in the name of forcing them to "freedom". This is just another symptom of the sickness.

The difference between earlier immigrants and those now are plenty. Our anscestors came here to find a new life. They assimilated, learned the language, the customs, the norms. They also came here legally, through Ellis Island, and many were turned away--the sick, the criminals.

I have absolutely no problem with allowing LEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the US, provided that there is a need for their skills, and employers can show that they can't fill available jobs AT PREVAILING RATES with US workers.

That means they can hire documented Mexicans at minimum wage to pick crops, documented Haitains at $9 per hour to work as nurses aides, documented Indians $60K+ per year to work as Java programmers.

It does not mean that illegals can be hired. It does not mean that nurses aides from Singapore can be hired at $7 an hour. It does not mean that Chinese immigrants can be offered Java programming jobs at $35K per year, because those are below market wages. This causes unemployment among people who are already living here legally, and is predatory towards the immigrants. It's a no win situation for anyone, except greedy business owners.

Anne
 
azgal81 said:
They need to go back to mexico. We don't want them here.

Then who will harvest our crops?

Anne
 
RitaZ. said:
To come here legally... I guess it all depends on the country that you want to leave. We left Cuba, my father was a political prisoner. In 1965, he began the legal process to be granted permission to leave Cuba and come to the US. First of all, there had to be certain criteria that you had to meet in order to begin the process. We met the criteria because he was a political prisoner. Secondly, we had to have friends or family in the US willing to pay for our airfare in US dollars, that money had to be in a Cuban bank account. Fortunately, we did have that part covered. I don't know all the specific details and I'll tell you our story to the best of my knowledge.

My dad was in prison a total of 7 years, 2 different times. The first time was from 1959 to 1964 and the second time from 1969 to 1971. He was extremely fortunate because many of his friends were sentenced to life in prison or were executed. My mom has some gruesome stories to tell about that. These executions were carried out in a small plaza near the prison, Cuban authorities wanted to terrify and intimidate the people that lived there. That's how communists operate and control the masses, through fear and intimidation. My mom said that the wives were given permission to visit their husbands in prison, the prison was located in Oriente. These women were forced to walk through this plaza where these political prisoners had been executed, their blood was all over the ground. Once they arrived at the prison, they were turned away and that's when some of them learned that their husbands had been executed.

My father was released from prison for good in 1971 and he continued working to get us out of that hell. Cuban Immigration was in control, the laws didn't apply, they made their own laws. It was one pathetic delay after another: C.I. would shut down their building indefinitely, they would move to another location, Fidel would decide that no one was to leave the country, etc. The whole process was designed to wear one down and to eventually just give up trying. I remember my dad telling us about one time that he really thought about jumping in front of a car after leaving Cuban Immigration. Through his visits to C.I., he befriended a man that worked for them. That man kept pushing our case/papers along. My parents did get an appointment at the American Embassy in late 1979, where they presented their case to an ambassador. My mom has told me that the ambassador was very taken with their story and told them that he was going to help them. Finally, in early 1980, we received a call that our visas had been granted. All of us had to go to the American Embassy to get fingerprinted, by then our family had been throughoughly checked out by the American government. I'll never forget waiting to be fingerprinted... There was a small office adjacent to the sitting area where this young guy was playing Donna Summer's music, it was so loud the place was shaking. :teeth: Being 14, I thought it was great!!! :teeth:

Since I was a young child, I was groomed and prepared for "the day" and here it was about to happen. It was surreal! We couldn't take a direct flight to the US. We had to fly to Merida, Mexico and took another flight from there to the US. That decision was made for us, I can't remember if it was made by the Cuban government or US. We arrived in Miami on April 14th, my birthdate.

So, I'm crying now, thinking about about what my life was like in Cuba. I've left out that part of it, as it's not really pertinent to the questions asked.

So, how long did it take? It began in 1965 and finally became a reality in April 1980.

I'm neutral when it comes to illegal immigration. The one thing that I understand really well is what it feels like to be trapped and to know that your life isn't going to get any better. There is no hope, the hell hole that you live in is as good as it's going to get. Those are very frightening realities and I can see why people risk their lives to come here.

Wow your reaccount of your story just took words from my mouth. Makes me realize what horrific situations people live in around the world and how grateful they are to have the chance to come here. I knew a successful businessman from Cuba who came here when he was 15. He was salt of the earth type - one of the kindest people you could ever meet. He was brought into the US and raised by priests. He had an incredible gratitude towards the priests that he felt basically saved his life. I am glad it worked out for your family and thanks for sharing your story.
 
nwdisgal said:
He had an incredible gratitude towards the priests that he felt basically saved his life. I am glad it worked out for your family and thanks for sharing your story.

It sounds like he was part of Pedro Pan. Some of those kids, that were sent here from Cuba without their parents, were taken in by Catholic orphanages.

Trust me, I'm grateful every single day. :goodvibes
 

ducklite said:
Then who will harvest our crops?

Anne

American workers would be happy to do these jobs if they could survive on the pay. Yes, they pay illegals money that American workers won't take. The difference is that illegals have nothing taken from their paychecks, thus they make more money than an American worker who is being paid the same amount. The American worker pays taxes, social security, etc. from his wages. This makes an American worker taking home half of what the illegal takes home.
 
So the answer is to pay more for our food, and for the growers to pay the (American) workers more for their work. I'm all in favor of that.
 
Feralpeg said:
American workers would be happy to do these jobs if they could survive on the pay. Yes, they pay illegals money that American workers won't take. The difference is that illegals have nothing taken from their paychecks, thus they make more money than an American worker who is being paid the same amount. The American worker pays taxes, social security, etc. from his wages. This makes an American worker taking home half of what the illegal takes home.

Actually, unfortunately more than a few do take "taxes" from the pay, and pocket it. :sad2:

I think that they would have a hard time finding enough Americans to do field work, even if they were paying $7-8 an hour. You can make that working at a fast food place or in retail, and the conditions are a lot better.

Anne
 
bicker said:
So the answer is to pay more for our food, and for the growers to pay the (American) workers more for their work. I'm all in favor of that.

I have no problem with it, as I think a lot of savings would happen in social programs, and there would be additional tax revenue so as a nation our collective taxes would be lowered.

But again, even paying a couple dollars over minimum wage, I think there would be a shortage of interested "legal" workers. That's how Georgie's "Guest Worker Program" would be beneficial. (Will someone smack me? I'm actually thinking the stupid brother has a halfway decent idea...)

Anne
 
I think that food costs are high now. Those who set the higher prices would have to be cautious not to set prices TOO high so as to price the average consumer out of the market for certain goods.
 
ducklite said:
Actually, unfortunately more than a few do take "taxes" from the pay, and pocket it. :sad2:

I think that they would have a hard time finding enough Americans to do field work, even if they were paying $7-8 an hour. You can make that working at a fast food place or in retail, and the conditions are a lot better.

Anne

Well, somebody did it before all of the illegal workers started streaming into this country. I think saying that Americans won't do a job so we need illegal workers is wrong. JMHO.
 
wvrevy said:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." ... but only if they speak English and are willing to work at menial jobs for less than minimum wage. :rolleyes:

:sad2: This country has become a farce. A sad parody of itself, conquering other nations in the name of forcing them to "freedom". This is just another symptom of the sickness.

So does that mean to you that anybody should just be able to freely walk across our boarders unchecked?

I don't care what their human condition is, just obey the laws. Is that too much to ask? Millions of immigrants were legally processed during that period.
But in reality, that's what they did. They learned English and worked at back breaking jobs that nobody wanted at the time that was inscribed. I'm sure that phrase didn't mean just sneak into the country illegally and we'll be waiting with open arms, a good paying job, free healthcare, free education, etc...

What is truly sad, is the people protesting the proposed law and waving Mexican flags. Sad indeed.
 
RitaZ. said:
It sounds like he was part of Pedro Pan. Some of those kids, that were sent here from Cuba without their parents, were taken in by Catholic orphanages.

Trust me, I'm grateful every single day. :goodvibes

That's exactly what it was. He was an orphan. Actually, his heritage was an advantage here because he owned an industry that relied heavily on machinists, die and tool makers. When the industry hit a peak and there was an overall labor shortage across the board, he was able to draw from a larger job pool of workers because of his fluency in Spanish. Also the culture had a tradition of apprenticeships in trades passed through the generations - grandfather to son to grandson. The workers were loyal and highly skilled at their craft.
 
Planogirl said:
I think that food costs are high now. Those who set the higher prices would have to be cautious not to set prices TOO high so as to price the average consumer out of the market for certain goods.

True. We're trying to buy local, grow local to lower our food costs, and support our local farms, but sustaining agriculture is very difficult without some sort of value added in the equation.
 
Feralpeg said:
Well, somebody did it before all of the illegal workers started streaming into this country. I think saying that Americans won't do a job so we need illegal workers is wrong. JMHO.

Yes, immigrants have always done these jobs. The Poles in the coal mines, the Germans and Irish in the fields, the Italians in the sweatshop factories at the turn of the century, the Chinese building our railways, the list goes on.

The difference is that they were legal. It was easier to get in to the US 100 years ago. We had plenty of jobs, plenty of room. No one was being displaced in terms of employment.

Immigrants were doing jobs that no one already here wanted back then, as much as they are doing the same now. But they were documented. They had been checked out for any health risks. They were paying taxes.

I'm not saying we need illegal workers--I'm all for rounding them up and tossing them out. I'm saying we need to close the door to skilled workers who's skills we don't need--primarily in the I/T field, and keep the door open for people to LEGALLY come in to fill jobs we can't fill with people already here. Field hands, nurses aides, etc., especially if we can do it on a "guest worker program." Their children don't automaticaly get citizenship. They have to leave if there is no more work for them in the field they came here to work in to begin with. They have to pay taxes. I think that becomes a win-win situation for everyone.

Anne
 
wvrevy said:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." ... but only if they speak English and are willing to work at menial jobs for less than minimum wage. :rolleyes:

:sad2: This country has become a farce. A sad parody of itself, conquering other nations in the name of forcing them to "freedom". This is just another symptom of the sickness.

I just have to point out that what you're quoting was written by the French. It's on the Statue of Liberty which was a gift from France.
 
ducklite said:
I have absolutely no problem with allowing LEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the US, provided that there is a need for their skills, and employers can show that they can't fill available jobs AT PREVAILING RATES with US workers.

That means they can hire documented Mexicans at minimum wage to pick crops, documented Haitains at $9 per hour to work as nurses aides, documented Indians $60K+ per year to work as Java programmers.

It does not mean that illegals can be hired. It does not mean that nurses aides from Singapore can be hired at $7 an hour. It does not mean that Chinese immigrants can be offered Java programming jobs at $35K per year, because those are below market wages. This causes unemployment among people who are already living here legally, and is predatory towards the immigrants. It's a no win situation for anyone, except greedy business owners.

Anne

I don't understand this. Why would you want to extend this much power to the government? Should this be law?
 
wvrevy said:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." ... but only if they speak English and are willing to work at menial jobs for less than minimum wage. :rolleyes:

:sad2: This country has become a farce. A sad parody of itself, conquering other nations in the name of forcing them to "freedom". This is just another symptom of the sickness.

That's what makes this so interesting.

People are like--well who will do the dirty crappy work that us Americans don't want to do. Malarchy.

Allow them to stay and expect them to work the corn field or wash your dishes while you dine in a fancy restaurant???

How very interesting, indeed.

While better than what they came from--it is a sorry way to justify letting it continue.

That is practically condoning slave wages in the name of illlegal immigration.
 
ducklite said:
Then who will harvest our crops?

Anne


We can go and fetch our own workers and allow them room and board while they do that. A better life as they have food and shelter--so hey, nothing wrong with that, right? :teeth:
 
Cindyluwho said:
I just have to point out that what you're quoting was written by the French. It's on the Statue of Liberty which was a gift from France.
Good point. Ironic that the French are having all kinds of immigrant issues nowadays.
 


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