No Debates About The Illegal Immigrants Issue?

bicker said:
It discourages illegals from coming and bringing their children. It makes it clear that the United States is standing up for its taxpayers. It establishes a principle that action will be taken against illegal immigration.

Not true. They aren't coming here for schools and medical - they are coming here for the money. Cutting off the schools and medical will do nothing except populate our streets with sick, uneducated illegals.

The #1 benefit of stripping away health care services is reduction in the cost burden of health care on taxpayers.

Sounds clinical and beautiful as a solution, but it doesn't get to the heart of the issue at all. In a country where we spend $300B to get our own citizens blown up in a faraway desert, I find it difficult to begrudge $10K for a second-grade education and a tetanus shot for a Mexican girl.

More financial transparency would help. Make it very difficult for people to earn profit in a business if they hire illegal aliens.

It'll be interesting to see how you'd recommend enforcing a reversal of a straight economic argument, namely that paying employees less results in a higher profit for businesses. Illegals are cheap. Are you suggesting the the INS pound down the door of every Denny's in the country? Fines?
 
Not true. They aren't coming here for schools and medical - they are coming here for the money. Cutting off the schools and medical will do nothing except populate our streets with sick, uneducated illegals.
Not if they are deported for being illegals. You either enter this country legally and play by the rules or you are gone , this is something that every foreigner knows going into any country.
 
I have been writing to several of my state senators and legislators with this letter. I just googled "Texas State Senators" and poof! There they were, e-mail and fax addresses and all! Here is what I sent to each of them . . .

Dear Senator:

Regarding the controversy over the immigration laws, I am all for us tightening our boundaries.

It is nausiating how these illegal aliens can come over to America, wave their Mexican flag, and claim they helped build this country. Well, if they think they are so talented at “building a country”, fine. Then they can go back to Mexico and take care of their own country! Oh, but silly me, they don’t get all the free handouts we give them here, right?

I work in healthcare, Senator, and daily see our senior population stripped of so many benefits. Benefits they worked years to earn. But yet our country is stupid enough to let the illegal aliens in and give them benefits even our own citizens do not have. They come over to America, squirt out babies, suck off our tax dollars, not pay a cent in taxes, tie up our court systems and lower our education standard because they refuse (in many occasions) to speak English. But why should they? America caters to them . . . and it’s our country!

I say to all the illegal aliens, “If you’re not happy about us Americans tightening up our borders and keeping those who are here illegally out, then go back where you came from. We don’t need you here”! I encourage you to vote to give America back to the Americans. Thank you.
 
Debbie, you actually wrote "squirt out babies" to your senator? You have panache ... :)
 

Mskanga said:
Not if they are deported for being illegals. You either enter this country legally and play by the rules or you are gone , this is something that every foreigner knows going into any country.

Mskanga, if it's that easy, then why do you think it isn't happening?
There have to be some other factors at play here, no?
 
Caradana said:
Sounds clinical and beautiful as a solution, but it doesn't get to the heart of the issue at all. In a country where we spend $300B to get our own citizens blown up in a faraway desert, I find it difficult to begrudge $10K for a second-grade education and a tetanus shot for a Mexican girl.
Americans pay for second grade educations and tetanus shots through foreign aid and relief organizations through out the world. We are happy to pay for that education and that tetanus shot....within the boarders of Mexico.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you guys have a much bigger challenge set before you than we do in the UK. Your borders are bigger than ours, easier to cross than ours and are more attractive than ours to cross.

I mean, we have a tonne of water separating us from non-UK countries and even then our neighbours are economically well developed - France, Germany, Spain etc.

You don't have either luxury.

Policing the border you share with Mexico must cost an arm and a leg; it must also be incredibly difficult to do right.



Rich::
 
There are many ways of coming in legally, but most don't give you the legal right to work.

You can come in on a student or tourist visa (where required, not all tourists are required to have a visa.) You can come in on a "marriage" or "fiance" visa. With all of the above, you are not granted permission to work, and are generally allowed to only stay a specific amount of time without getting further permission to be here.

You can come in on a resticted employment visa where there is a specific length of time set that you can be here, and you are only allowed to work in a specific capacity for specific employer. The employer has to sponsor you.

You can come in on a non-restricted employment visa. These are usually good for three years, and you can't get one until you've had the restricted type for at least a year or two. I have several friends who are Canadians who are here on those right now, they are not taking jobs from US Citizens as they are musicians in established major label rock bands. They own homes here, and pay taxes, so they are benefiting our economy.

You can open a business and stay as long as you want, as long as the business is still open and running. There is a thriving market in the Orlando area to sell established mom & pop type businesses to Brits.

You can get into a lottery for a green card, a certain number are given to each country per year.

You can be sponsored by a US citizen, but this sometimes doesn't allow you to work.

You can be granted asylum on the basis of religious, political, or ethnic persecution in your homeland.

I'm not an immigration attorney, and I'm sure there are other ways to be here legally. Maybe someone who knows more about it can post more info--and correct me if I'm wrong with any of these.

Thanks Ducklite.
 
Caradana said:
Debbie, you actually wrote "squirt out babies" to your senator? You have panache ... :)
Yes, I did. :teeth: You should see the ER at Parkland here in Dallas! You may say (or at least think) the same thing. :thumbsup2
 
Mskanga, if it's that easy, then why do you think it isn't happening?
There have to be some other factors at play here, no?
I never said it wasn't happening. This is something that is very well spelled out in the immigration laws, you are caught illegal in this country , you will be deported.
I expect the government to follow through with the law and do what it takes to make sure that is enforced.
 
My solution is that when troops begin withdrawal from Iraq we can place them strategically on the border. Anyone sneaking across should be shot on sight. That would end the problem very fast.
 
Caradana said:
He either (a) does what his parents do, dishwashing or whatever, or (b) becomes a criminal. Far more likely the latter. Someone is going to read this post and say "Dana, no, he can do (c), go back to his home country like he should." His home country is here. He was raised here. He has a tenuous connection to anywhere else.

So we reward criminal behavior in the hopes that they don't commit more criminal behavior instead of giving them a consequence for your actions.
 
Caradana said:
It'll be interesting to see how you'd recommend enforcing a reversal of a straight economic argument, namely that paying employees less results in a higher profit for businesses. Illegals are cheap. Are you suggesting the the INS pound down the door of every Denny's in the country? Fines?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ducklite said:
I agree 100%. But some of these jobs will remain in the US, and unfortunately US citizens have to compete for those jobs with recent immigrants who were brought in as a source of "cheap labor." I like the way Canada handles immigration. A company must prove that they were unsuccessful in hiring a Canadian citizen for a position before they can sponsor an immigrant worker, and they must tell the government what the pay scale is, and must pay the immigrant worker as much as they would have offered a non-immigrant worker, which must be within the average pay range for that position in that geographical area. it's cut down on bringing in "cheap foreign help."

Anne


You actually like that the government calls the shots with employee wages?

Would you want the US government to tell you how much a job is worth?
 
Caradana said:
Mskanga, if it's that easy, then why do you think it isn't happening?
There have to be some other factors at play here, no?


Affordability.


However--there are many things that I cannot afford to do. So I do not do them.

and while yes--there may be some valid hardships that for them it was a good idea to cross and violate the law....There are probably many many many many many more---who just want to leach off of our system.

Last I checked---it's Mexico, right. NOt a little village in subsarahan Africa where children are dying and have distended bellies b/c they haven't eaten in a long time.

Being poor does not entitle one to break the law.

If I find myself poor and destitute--I can't go sneak into teh country of my choice for a better life.

There are laws and reasons we have them.

It is the United States of America--and they are Mexico. They want to tell their people to move them...It is time for us to send Mexico a bill.

If you think all that money would go to Mexican illegals if there wasn't a war..you are mistaken.



If I need a passport to reenter my own country. Pablo should need something as well to enter what is not his country.
 
Charade said:
You actually like that the government calls the shots with employee wages?

Would you want the US government to tell you how much a job is worth?


I think her example was to show that the immigrant work force is paid adequently and not short changed.
 
If the INS began routine raids on industries that are liable to be employing illegal's and imposed harsh economic penalties against companies found employing illegals to the point that it would have been much cheaper to hire a legal person, in not so long a time companies will stop hring illegals--they will get the picture that they are not going to get a simple slap on the wrist.

Once the job market dries up for illegals, they will stop coming, because face it, in almost every case, the motivation for coming to the US is jobs.

Anne
 
Lanshark said:
Would someone please explain the process for coming into this country legally? Then explain why these people are unwilling/unable to go through that process.

To come here legally... I guess it all depends on the country that you want to leave. We left Cuba, my father was a political prisoner. In 1965, he began the legal process to be granted permission to leave Cuba and come to the US. First of all, there had to be certain criteria that you had to meet in order to begin the process. We met the criteria because he was a political prisoner. Secondly, we had to have friends or family in the US willing to pay for our airfare in US dollars, that money had to be in a Cuban bank account. Fortunately, we did have that part covered. I don't know all the specific details and I'll tell you our story to the best of my knowledge.

My dad was in prison a total of 7 years, 2 different times. The first time was from 1959 to 1964 and the second time from 1969 to 1971. He was extremely fortunate because many of his friends were sentenced to life in prison or were executed. My mom has some gruesome stories to tell about that. These executions were carried out in a small plaza near the prison, Cuban authorities wanted to terrify and intimidate the people that lived there. That's how communists operate and control the masses, through fear and intimidation. My mom said that the wives were given permission to visit their husbands in prison, the prison was located in Oriente. These women were forced to walk through this plaza where these political prisoners had been executed, their blood was all over the ground. Once they arrived at the prison, they were turned away and that's when some of them learned that their husbands had been executed.

My father was released from prison for good in 1971 and he continued working to get us out of that hell. Cuban Immigration was in control, the laws didn't apply, they made their own laws. It was one pathetic delay after another: C.I. would shut down their building indefinitely, they would move to another location, Fidel would decide that no one was to leave the country, etc. The whole process was designed to wear one down and to eventually just give up trying. I remember my dad telling us about one time that he really thought about jumping in front of a car after leaving Cuban Immigration. Through his visits to C.I., he befriended a man that worked for them. That man kept pushing our case/papers along. My parents did get an appointment at the American Embassy in late 1979, where they presented their case to an ambassador. My mom has told me that the ambassador was very taken with their story and told them that he was going to help them. Finally, in early 1980, we received a call that our visas had been granted. All of us had to go to the American Embassy to get fingerprinted, by then our family had been throughoughly checked out by the American government. I'll never forget waiting to be fingerprinted... There was a small office adjacent to the sitting area where this young guy was playing Donna Summer's music, it was so loud the place was shaking. :teeth: Being 14, I thought it was great!!! :teeth:

Since I was a young child, I was groomed and prepared for "the day" and here it was about to happen. It was surreal! We couldn't take a direct flight to the US. We had to fly to Merida, Mexico and took another flight from there to the US. That decision was made for us, I can't remember if it was made by the Cuban government or US. We arrived in Miami on April 14th, my birthdate.

So, I'm crying now, thinking about about what my life was like in Cuba. I've left out that part of it, as it's not really pertinent to the questions asked.

So, how long did it take? It began in 1965 and finally became a reality in April 1980.

I'm neutral when it comes to illegal immigration. The one thing that I understand really well is what it feels like to be trapped and to know that your life isn't going to get any better. There is no hope, the hell hole that you live in is as good as it's going to get. Those are very frightening realities and I can see why people risk their lives to come here.
 
I just cant understand how the illegal immigrants get jobs ? surely employers are breaking the law employing them. What happens if they need healthcare if they get sick ? what about schooling for the kids ? you cant get any of that if you are in the US illegally. I also cant believe they dont get caught that often. :confused3
We would love to come and live in the US but the immigration laws just wont allow us unless we have a ton of money, yet DH and I have a good education and good work experience. It annoys me when some of the illegal immmigrants are protesting about their right to be in the US when some of them dont even speak the language, or have a decent education. :guilty: The UK have always supported the US in political matters, yet we are still excluded from even entering the Diversity visa lottery to try and win green cards to live in the US. :sad2: I know it is much easier for people to enter the UK for perminant residency.
 

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