No child left behind - what do you think?

[janette]

Originally posted by shortbun
An informal classroom is not the place for a child having behavioral and learning difficulties.

A child with learning difficulties doesn't automatically have behavior issues. They are socially much like their peers they just need different instuction methods.

I'm in Texas and I don't see any good coming out of the policies here. The tests are designed for college bound students. No alternatives for those that might not be ready or able to attend college. They either pass the tests or don't get a HS degree.

I have 2 kids, the oldest is in accelerated programs and has always made A's & B's. She failed a pre-test in 3rd grade and they gave me all this stuff about her being at risk. I wasn't too worried until I found out that if she didn't pass the real test that she might not be promoted to the next grade. I didn't want her to stress about it, told her she really needed to take her time and be careful on the test. She scored the highest possible grade on the real test. What a nightmare it would be for any parent if their child's bad day happens on test day.

My youngest is dyslexic, it is severe enough that she is classifed special education and she will have modifications for the testing. In TX special education is counted a little differently and doesn't impact the school's scores so it is to their benefit that she won't be taking the regular test. Many children with dyslexia or other learning differences are not classified as special education. They have to take the regular tests with no modifications, they are very much at risk to decide that shool is just not worth it.

ESL is not counted for children if they have been in the country less than a year. After 1 year they are considered regular students. This is a change within the last couple of years in TX and has effected many of the school's ratings.

The school my DD's are in now seems to be pretty good at finding a balance of not teaching the test. They still do very well on the ratings but I don't hear as much about the test. My youngest is in 3rd grade and they have started doing practice tests, they will take the test for the first time this year. In our previous elementary school my older DD was doing practice tests in 1st grade.

The testing is way overdone. As a tool to measure education I can see that a test is informative but to base an entire education system on the results of the tests just isn't realistic or practical.

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

When my son was still in public school I asked his principal if she would retain him if he didn't meet the ABC's, EOGs and end of year writing test standards. She said no because we were involved parents and our son receives a lot of support from home. He is severely LD and he is making progress at his own pace and you wouldn't want to crush his self esteem and have him drop out of school. We had already held him back in preschool.

I do believe the Dept. of Education is going to have to recend some of their ridiculous guidelines to better suit all students.

I recently read an article about NC's retention rate of students that didn't pass all of these tests and it was only a small % of students that were actually held back. Principals have the final say so. I believe those were probably students whose parents were no where to be seen and the only learning the child received was at school.

Lori

 

[Mamu]

Welcome to the world of public education. "No Child Left Behind" seems to be leaving whole schools behind.

Someones brilliant idea is a failure. You wonder what planet the board of educators come from. By the the time they realize this program is a failure a generation of children will think school is about testing, not learning.

Learning should be fun, diverse and challenging, not years of cramming for a test that proves nothing, only your school system suffers because some students don't test well.

 

[floridaminnie]

One thing about the "no child left behind' is that each state set it's own standard and sent it up to DC to be approved or not. I know the standard in FLis way too high. I teach at an A school, for the NCLB, we passed every single category except our autistic kids did not meet the standard for reading on level, so we failed. I think the state needs to reevaluate the standard they have meet.

BTW, my daughter starts school this coming up fall and I'm sending her to private school.

 

[Mskanga]

We have been having all kinds of problems this year with this new NCLB law. Some parents a couple of years ago signed up their children in the charter school because it was a full day kindergarten as opposed to half day in the public school. At the end of the first year they all insisted that the education in the charter school was far higher than in public school. This year the charter school was abruptly closed because there were half a million dollars missing and unaccounted for, the founders had stolen and used it for themselves.
These kids are now in the public school system , and the problem is that most of these children are not at par on their education level, they were put in classes right in the middle of the year doing things that they had never done yet, this was all discovered after christmas. We also have lots of kids who do not speak english and overflow the ESL classes, to give you an idea they test every single kid that they know someone in their home speaks another language, they tested both of my kids two years ago ( my oldest was in third grade already ) , and they had known me for like 5 years then, they knew we had no problems but hey, test them , I don't care.
A lot of parents deny that their children need ESL classes and refuse to let them go, I have seen that done, it's not mandatory and there's nothing the school can do.
There is a lot of issues with some kids this year, my oldest is a peer tutor and all the 5th grade peer tutoring has been cancelled because kids are breaking and stealing things, the teacher got sick and tired of it and now it's in the hands of the principal as to what to do.
Fortunately for me my dd is in the highest group in school, she's in the gifted program and since I see her teachers almost daily, they let me know what is going on and we figure out a way to keep her challenged enough.
Now they are getting ready for their PSSA test, they only have those officially on third and fifth grade, but unofficially they get them ready for them every year.
And as far as parents involvement, I don't know how everyonr feels, but I like to know what is going on with my children's education , it's for their own benefit.

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by floridaminnie
One thing about the "no child left behind' is that each state set it's own standard and sent it up to DC to be approved or not.

In Mississippi, more than half the schools failed the Annual Yearly Progress. So they changed the "growth" AYP to attendance and 500 more schools passed. What's the point if we can just find the way to make the schools look better?

I also dislike the highly qualified part, to some degree. Yes, I have no problem applying it to new teachers. However, we have teachers who have taught physics for YEARS, without a specific degree in it, and now have to find the money and time to go back and get a degree in it. As I recall, the runner-up for teacher of the year in Mississippi last year did not have a specialized degree in his subject. So he's good enough to be nominated for teacher of the year, but he can't be considered highly qualified.

 

[Kallison]

It puts pressure on the special ed and learning support teachers to get their kids to "perform". We teach to the tests. It's ridiculous, why can't they use common sense. Danacara's story is a perfect example of the idiocy.

 

[poohbear2]

It is very upsetting and demeaning the way teachers are treated. I have co-workers that have taught master level classes and are now not qualified????

I am a sixth grade science teacher and suddenly not highly qualified because 6th grade is now not considered elementary but middle school. I will need to take a test to prove I am highly qualified and then magically the students test scores will improve!!!! It is so upsetting when you really work hard creating lessons to fit all learning styles, learning disablitlites, etc and the student never brings a pencil, or notebook etc. AND that's after you speak with the parent.

Because of lack of funding, the science and social studies portion of the test as well as the written portion will not be on the 6th grade testing.

After hearing of this, I completed some extra lesson plans that included FUN and time consuming labs. I think the students miss out on a lot of lessons like this due to feeling like you need to cover everything BEFORE the test is given.

 

[nsyncraider17]

I do not agree with NCLB at all! I do think that there should be some sort of national standard for education, but all NCLB has created is an unfair analysis that is different in every state.

Like Danacara's story demonstrated, it is entirely ridiculous to judge an entire district based on the average performance of their students without acknowledging geographic or demographic factors or the number of students. Of course there's going to be an "acheivement gap" between students who have been attending a very good school for several years and new students who may not have been receiving the same level of education. It's not fair to the successful students to be labeled below average because of someone else.

It's also completely unfair that teachers are being forced to teach for standardized tests. Last year, we had to take time out of my Enriched Pre-Calculus class to review basic Algebra and Geometry skills (some of which we had never learned, because the teachers in charge of our accelerated curriculum recognized that they weren't actually necessary, but the state did not ) so that we could take the OGT, which didn't actually count for us, anyway. This class was preparing us for a college level AP class, but apparently unnecessary skills (which I have yet to use in AP Calculus, by the way) are more important than a college level education.

Basically, I think that NCLB holds back students who have the potential to succeed if they happen to be in the same school as students who need help learning basic skills. So I guess President Bush probably believes that it is successful, because it probably is narrowing the acheivement gap...unfortunately, this gap is narrowing because above average students are being forced to remain at the level of their below average peers.

 

[tcfdick]

I also do not agree with NCLB! Another point that no one has mentioned is that there are 9 (or may be 10) areas in NCLB that they look at and if ONE of those areas doesn't pass, it's a failing grade for the school. To me that is idiotic! If I were to take a test and miss one part, I don't fail the test.

I am a special education teacher at the elementary level and agree with what several other people have said about including these students on par with the nonhandicapped students. It isn't fair for the students. They try so hard to do well and I know they are frustrated! In my state, there are modifications, but they are spelled out and one of them is in the area of writing. Even if a student is LD in writing, if they can put a THOUGHT down on paper (doesn't matter if it's written with every word spelled wrong, just as long as you can read it), they are unable to have a scribe to help them with their thought process. This is setting them up for failure right off the bat because they get really frustrated doing something that is hard for them anyway and now they are being tested in that very area!

I am now teaching to the test and the goals that I used to write in my students' IEP's are different now and are geared toward what is tested. I still teach what they need, I just do it as extra and focus on the skills that are on the test. I use lots of modifications and tools (like calculators with math) and teach them how to use that to their benefit. I don't like teaching this way, but my state has been doing this since 1991 and I've had to for the last 13 years out of my 20 yrs. of experience. It seems to get worse every year too.

Some good news that I've heard is that the govt. is looking at the highly qualified teacher part of this bill. They are going to have to do some major changes to this part because if they don't, they won't have enough teachers to teach! This affects teachers mostly at the middle and high school levels. It also affects special education teachers, as well as assistants (they will need college courses to be able to be an assistant and it's hard enough finding someone to work for the pitiful pay they give to them now without them having to have college hours). Sp. Ed. teachers usually have a degree in special education that states grades K-12 with no content major. If I were teaching in middle school or high school, I would not be able to teach any content area because my major is Sp. Ed. K-12 and elementary 1-8 (with no major content area). This would limit me to only elementary through the NCLB qualification, which is going to happen to lots of teachers, not just Sp. ed. teachers.

I also see lack of funding being a problem for our testing system. Right now we take two different tests per year in grades 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 (the other grades take one test per year). With funding cuts, this is going to have to change too. There will not be enough money for both and that means the Federal regs. will take precedence over state. I don't know if this is an area of concern in other states, but it is in KY. What's even worse, the two tests we give don't compare! Also, our special ed. students are included in the overall scores of our tests. Our school had the highest scores in two areas and 2nd best in the other areas in our county for our STATE testing, but according to the NCLB, we failed because of one area that didn't pass (btw, the scores used to determine this were from 2 years ago). This gives a wrong impression to parents and makes it confusing when one test result says one thing and the other test says something else. Our state level govt. seems to want the NCLB to fail too, but because of this, it hurts all the schools too by making them look as though they aren't performing well.

Sorry this was so long, but NCLB really irritates me!