No child left behind - what do you think?

[TerriP]

I work in public school administration. I echo the frustration at the lack of common sense in this legislation.

If you are unhappy with NCLB, use the best tool you have to voice your opinion. Vote OUT of office the President that passed this!

 

[Aristocath]

Too bad people didn't take a better look at Texas public schools before the 2000 election. I didn't vote for Bush for governor nor did I vote for him for President because he is out of touch. This is an election year, folks! Let your voice be heard!

 

[Robinrs]

I couldn't agree more....

I am so frustrated with the education my son is getting and I thought it was just Georgia! Reading this thread makes me realize it's nationwide!

I do feel like I'm homeschooling my child. Every evening he comes home with homework on something he'd never learned in class! All of the parents are frustrated but our complaints seem to fall on deaf ears.

I've been given awards for my involvement in my son's school and I don't feel like I do enough. His school is known for parental involvement but there is a limit to everything.

The population in his district has nearly doubled in the past 4 years. At the PTA the principal announced that there are now 72 dialects in my city. 72!!! I had no idea there were that many in GEORGIA! The teachers are baffled the students are confused and my son comes home everyday to tell me about one or two more kids who started today in his class who don't speak English.

With every fiber in my body I want to pull him out and homeschool him but I can't because I have to go back to work. My neighbor homeschools both of her girls and they are excelling. One of the girls tutors Michael in things I have no clue how to. It's a mess....

Okay, it sounded good, it didn't work... what's NEXT? It's time for a change.

 

[Kimberle]

Originally posted by Aristocath
Too bad people didn't take a better look at Texas public schools before the 2000 election.

Interesting, because Bush is from TX.

Can you please tell us a little about them? I'm in the North.

 

[Pete's Mom]

Originally posted by TerriP
If you are unhappy with NCLB, use the best tool you have to voice your opinion. Vote OUT of office the President that passed this!

And then what?

 

[jocon]

I am by no means a supporter of President Bush and will send up fireworks on election night if he is defeated....but NCLB was a Bush/Ted Kennedy bill. Senator Kennedy has backed out his support, but it shows the terrible influence that politicians have on education. I am a "politician" and my wife is a first grade teacher. We understand that politicians pose the same road blocks that indifferent parents do.......All politics is local, just like education should be. Now back to getting rid of Bush. He is only concerned with vaugue headlines and Air Force One flyovers at Nascar events. In four years not one meaningful piece of legislation......IMHO....

 

[Disney's Deluxe Princess]

I think it is one of the craziest ideas in education I have ever heard! I'm just thankful that I got out of teaching before all of this nonsense started. I taught in both wealthy and inner city communities. The fact that these 2 districts would even be compared to each other is just appalling. Resources and parental support were nearly nonexistent in the inner city. How can they be judged the same? Now, with all of the budget cuts slashing school funding all over the country, how are teachers supposed to IMPROVE scores?

 

[gina2000]

It's a major disaster for the US school system. Factoring in children learning english and those who are learning disabled is an unfair comparison for ALL involved.

There's another little glitch that has schools up in arms. Apparently, each state has their own standards and guidelines for testing. States with higher standards were not allowed to alter them before NCLB went into effect. So you still have a major discrepency from state to state as to what standards are being imposed. Failing in NY may be passing in another state.

 

[goofy4tink]

And to think I thought I was the only one!!! I've had to send my poor dd back to school with a note, telling the teacher that I just don't get the homework so therefor can not help my child. I have a college education for crying out loud. How is it possible that I can't 'get' 4th grade math?? Our town spends a fortune on education and are presently looking at Prop 2 1/2 override. Enough of these tests and teaching to these tests.

 

[FINFAN]

Hey Robin, if it makes you feel any better, my friends's son's elementary has 94 different dialects...in their school alone! ESL is a huge sector in our district. Look us up....Naperville Illinois, dist 204.

 

[Tinkbell]

I hate having to teach to the tests. As a first grade teacher, all I hear about from administration is how to prepare them for the big 4th grade state test. There's no time for the fun, educational activities that make learning exciting for these kids.

 

[Cindy B]

Well, as a future educator, I have to say it has its good and bad points.

Let me tell you about the NCLB from an paraprofessional and teacher standpoint. Each teacher has to professionally prove that they are "highly qualified" to teach the subject. That means getting transcripts, from undergraduate, graduate work, sometimes decades old...

Each paraprofessional needs to have 48 or 60 credits to be an aide, but we make minimal money (heck, the teachers look RICH compared to us lowly aides!) Many of our aides are moms of students or retirees. These aides work really hard for the studnets, but becasuse of this NCLB, they will lose their jobs. some of these paraprofessionals have been in the district for 30 years!
The aides or paraprofessionals are getting no tutoring or educational reimbursement to attain our creditation, but the teachers do as they strive for thier masters degree or other postgraduate work.

There are some poor teachers out there, however I have seen excellent educators not only in my school, but my chilrens elementary school as well.

In some instances, they are teaching the tests to students. This is when parents need to get involved and do the very best they can as well. I can't tell you how many parents are upset becasue their Johnny or Susie isn't getting what they need.. or are failing. So many students are just flat out lazy, and don't return work on time, study, or even show up. Yes, some students are in "at risk" situations, such as parental issues or they have 504 plans, but that does not excuse every child from doing thier best.

If anything, the NCLB does weed out poor educators. But the ideals itself of the NCLB is too lofty to attain. There sadly will be children left behind.

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

Originally posted by Kimberle
Is it working?

People in my community & state are getting very upset & frustrated. I'll give you an example:

This school is a Spanish Imersion school as well. Hense, many immigrent children are buses so they can attend their classes in Spanish. When the NCLB tests are given, many of the children don't do well because they just don't "understand"
What do you think?

Kimberle,

My daughter attends a Spanish Immersion School. Native spanish speaking children can't attend because they already know spanish. What would be the point? I think you are referring to an ESL (English as a Second Language) classes. The students are taught English and they catch on fairly quickly.

We love the Spanish Immersion Program. My child's Magnet school is in a poor area but because the program is so great people are climbing all over each other to get their children in this school. Enrollment is determined by lottery. My 1st grade daughter can read, write and speak Spanish fluently. Her school's end of grade test scores were the best in the US for a title one school. The principal and literacy coordinator met with the head of President Bush's Literacy Task Force in Washington, DC.

If anyone has the opportunity to put their child in an immersion program I would highly recommend it. Studies have shown these children have higher cognitive thinking skills and test higher on tests that are given in English than their non-biligual counterparts.

NCLB has forced our family to send our LD son to a private school. I pay taxes but I feel forced to put him at a school where he is welcomed. We feel that the public school looked at him as if he were a nuisance because he would bring their scores down.

It really burns me up when people say that disabled students take funds away from their precious children. By law they are entitled to an equal education. Parents of disabled children pay taxes too. You should feel fortunate that you don't have to deal with the pain and heartache asssociated with a child that has a learning disability that is only trying to learn and get an education.

Lori

 

[Cindy B]

Well, I can also say in my school district, special education students are not treated as "score draggers". These special needs students are tutored during classtime to enable them to have higher scores.

At risk students also meet before and after school as well to enable them to be to grade level. However, I have seen some sad cases... 6th graders at a 1st grade reading level. .. No matter what you do, (and we do a lot), they may make it to the 4th grade reading level.. not the current 6th.

 

[cats mom]

Hmm timely post. I just got a packet home this week. DS is in 2nd grade. They are gearing up for standardized testing, so beginning this week - no spelling, words aloud, etc. Just practice for tests that start April 5. Between the stanford 9, state standardized tests, and of course our district has to have it's own special set of tests - I guess we are pretty much done with anything other that teaching specifically to, or taking tests!

I too agree that most of the resources go to the problem areas and the middle of the road kids are left to fend for themselves. Thank heavens my DD had 2 hours a day of sage (our gifted program) last year as a sixth grader - the rest of the year was pretty much a bust.
As a fifth grader she tested 90th+ percentile, post high school, and exceeds the standard on everything (can't remember which test grades how)
Anyway, when I complained that I was not thrilled about the teacher she got, I was told that the best, most experienced teachers were needed for the kids who needed the most wok to get them up to standards! ARGGG!

I understand that the special needs and low performing kids need extra help and are certainly entitled to it - but let's not just push all the kids that do test well in with the worst, least experienced teacher and not worry too much about them because, after all, they are not pulling the overall scores down.

 

[ivanova]

Personally, I cannot stomach "teaching to the test" but understand teachers don't have much of a choice these days.

I think a major problem with the standardized testing & the responsibility thrust on the schools is that we aren't testing/tracking the PROGRESS that the individual child is making in a school year.

A school that serves a predominantly affluent area will get students that attended preschool (their parents could afford it) and so these kids are well prepared when they start out in kindergarten. Also, as the years go on, these same parents can afford private tutors if their child(ren) need it. And, these same parents are better educated themselves so they are more likely to (1) esnure their kid(s) do their homework, and (2) can help their kids with their homework.

A school that serves a predominantly poor area will get students that did not attend preschool or Headstart (Headstart can only handled so many kids a year; far less than the number of kids that NEED it), and so these kids enter kindergarten ill-prepared. They're behind the 8-ball from day one. The parents of these kids cannot afford private tutors, plus are probably not well-educated so cannot help their children with homework. So these kids start behind and continue to slip throughout their school years.

How do you teach to the grade standards when the kids are far behind? Do you ignore the higher performing kids, and focus on the ones that are behind hoping to pull them up? Or do you help the better educated kids and let those that are behind just flounder?

If we tested for progress made during the school year, the schools would be more motivated to teach ALL of their students ... wanting ALL students to show signifcant progress. If a child does not meet the standards for their grade at the end of the year, but have made progress, they might need to be held back one year so they can catch up and meet standards by the end of the next school year.

On a side note, eliminating art & music programs is nuts IMHO. There are plenty of studies showing the link between music and math proficiency. Yet if a school wants to improve their math scores, they poor the money into "teaching to the math test" instead of reinforcing music instruction. Go figure.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

Kid by kid....
DD#1 is a 6th grader. She has 6th grade proficiency tests coming up. No more spelling tests until after the proficiency. Also, the junior high is considering going from 9 classes, 40 min. to 7 classes, 50 min. long so teachers can prep the kids for the new 10th grad Ohio Graduation Test--which as a HS teacher I can tell you is a BEAR!!! If they cut class periods Kelly would lose her team study period, it might affect choir and the kids would no longer be able to take a year of foreign language in 8th grade.
DD#2--3rd grade--will be taking off-grade proficiency test this year to prep for next year. Two weeks in March they have some kind of standardized test every other day.
DS is in kindergarten--I think they have to take some kind of test this year as well, as George W. in his wisdom wants kids tested all the time. They are already under a lot of pressure to know how to read by the end of K.
At my HS--all the English teachers have been pounding the OGT concepts into the kids all year. We are losing a lot of freedom to teach what we want--if I want to teach Romeo and Juliet I have to prove how it meets the state standards and benchmarks. This years 10th graders have to take the test even though they don't have to pass it to graduate (9th graders do though), so most of mine don't even plan on trying, although I've told them that the school and teachers (mainly me!) will be judged on their results.
I don't know if Rich boy Kerry will be much better than George W., I haven't heard any of his ideas. But you can believe I'll be paying attention when they finally come out.
Robin M.

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by Rock'n Robin
Kid by kid....
DD#1 is a 6th grader. She has 6th grade proficiency tests coming up. No more spelling tests until after the proficiency. Also, the junior high is considering going from 9 classes, 40 min. to 7 classes, 50 min. long so teachers can prep the kids for the new K.
At my HS--all the English teachers have been pounding the OGT concepts into the kids all year. We are losing a lot of freedom to teach what we want--if I want to teach Romeo and Juliet I have to prove how it meets the state standards and benchmarks. This years 10th graders have to take the test even though they don't have to pass it to graduate (9th graders do though), so most of mine don't even plan on trying, although I've told them that the school and teachers (mainly me!) will be judged on their results.

Robin M.

Ahh.. standards and benchmarks.. my district is so fond of those!

I can't tell you how many rubrics I have seen regarding this. In some ways, I understand where they are coming from, but it does get a little ridiculous sometimes.

For example, all videos (ie documentaries) need to be approved with the standard and benchmark attached to it, same with any field trip requests.

My kids elementary school now has tons of benchmarks and standards as well.. all the "freedom" of teaching in an elementary setting is gone. In my middle school, it is completely and totally structured, with the benchmarks, objectives and standards all over the place.

Now, the teachers write on the boards/flipcharts which benchmark and standard (6.2, 5,2, etc.. on the board for each unit and lesson...). Don't get me started on essential questions as well...

 

[Kimberle]

This was a great discussion!

Thanks for posting, everybody!

 

[shortbun]

The other thing NCLB does is overload the well performing
schools with children who have learning disabilities and severe behavioral issues. DS's school now has classrooms with 30 students; both 2nd grades received this year several children
who are not accustomed to our informal educations system and
do not function well in the informal classroom. Our school was
2nd best in test scores last year among 50+ elementarys. Now
the teachers are hard pressed to get through a lesson. I volunteer every Friday in the classroom. Yesterday, had I been
the teacher, I would have run screaming from the room. These
chjldren are definitely special needs kids and 6 of them have been
mainstreamed to DS's classroom. I walked in to find the principal
sitting on the floor in the coatroom with 3 kids, 1 child sitting in
the hall(his choice) kicking the wall and 2 others rolling around
on the floor while math was being taught. Hmmm- it's no wonder
DS keeps trying to say he's sick and can't go to school. The parents of all these children refuse to respond to IEP recommendations but took advantage of our schools high marks.
An informal classroom is not the place for a child having behavioral
and learning difficulties. Informal requires a child to be able to identify and stay on task on his own with guidance- it is not a traditional style of sitting at desks and facing forward while the teacher talks. These kids can not handle the freedom at all. All
the children are being "Left Behind" thanks to this unfunded mandate. The standards have been lowered and the flight to
private schools has begun. Very sad.