News Round Up

[clsteve]

this will do well at Universal and continue to cement them as a resort destination

It doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention around here. But, this could be a bigger game changer than some think.

Mainly because it will be in walking distance of most of their on-site Hotels. That's a big deal and a big selling point. Will be for our family, being able to walk right over from our room.

If I'm Loews, I'm ecstatic.

It also gives them the opportunity to do all kinds of things around nighttime hours, entertainment - maybe even a night time show. That 200 ft Volcano is going to be it's own best billboard if they have it erupting at night....

 

[rteetz]

It doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention around here. But, this could be a bigger game changer than some think.

Mainly because it will be in walking distance of most of their on-site Hotels. That's a big deal and a big selling point. Will be for our family, being able to walk right over from our room.

If I'm Loews, I'm ecstatic.

It also gives them the opportunity to do all kinds of things around nighttime hours, entertainment - maybe even a night time show. That 200 ft Volcano is going to be it's own best billboard if they have it erupting at night....

I've always found that this site doesn't pick up what I would think is big news. This water park has been known about for some time and now permits are filed and people still don't seem to give it a second look. Universal is definitely growing much like at a pace that Disney did in the 80s. Universal is currently building a fifth hotel hand has plans for six and seven. New rides are coming and a third park has been rumored for years.

 

[DDLand]

I've always found that this site doesn't pick up what I would think is big news. This water park has been known about for some time and now permits are filed and people still don't seem to give it a second look. Universal is definitely growing much like at a pace that Disney did in the 80s. Universal is currently building a fifth hotel hand has plans for six and seven. New rides are coming and a third park has been rumored for years.

I may be missing the ball completely on the Universal buildup, but I don't think they're within stricking distance of Disney in the 80's. Not by a mile.

I'd say the Resort Hotel Buildup at Universal has been greatly exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

Think about this for a second, since 2010 Universal has added 1800 rooms. If you were reading some of these forums you'd think Disney had been sitting around doing nothing. Instead, Disney has launched Art of Animation (more then 1600 rooms just there), DVC Grand Floridian, and DVC Polynesian. This was just after a extensive build-up that launched 695 new DVC properties in 2009.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2009-01-12/business/hotelsrail12_1_share-resort-disney

This was all during a recession and recovery in which tourism dollars were scarce.

These room additions dwarf (hah) Universal expansion. Even with the Sapphire Project underway over at their property, Disney would still have competitive unit expansion (with many of those rooms bought for the next 5 decades). Also now and fall of 2016 is long enough away that Disney could easily begin construction on new properties.

Disney during the 80's was all about boundary pushing. Whereas Disney didn't know if a third gate would really work, they did it anyway. They didn't know if Resort Buildup would really work, but they did it anyway. They didn't know if Pleasure Island would work, but they did it anyway. I think we occasionally forget just how revolutionary Walt Disney World is. Thanks to WDW Universal is following a model created by Disney. Disney didn't have that model during the 80's.


Update: 100% Volcano Bay is big news. It seems to be getting under reported everywhere.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I've always found that this site doesn't pick up what I would think is big news. This water park has been known about for some time and now permits are filed and people still don't seem to give it a second look. Universal is definitely growing much like at a pace that Disney did in the 80s. Universal is currently building a fifth hotel hand has plans for six and seven. New rides are coming and a third park has been rumored for years.

All of this was mentioned awhile back on an episode of The DIS Unplugged.

 

[DDLand]

All of this was mentioned awhile back on an episode of The DIS Unplugged.

I don't think he meant the official content. I think he's saying more the individual posters and commenters. I think there is a segment of the fanbase that doesn't give Universal its due.

 

[sachilles]

It is a Disney oriented forum after all, I think folks are just indifferent to Universal.

 

[twebber55]

It doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention around here. But, this could be a bigger game changer than some think.

Mainly because it will be in walking distance of most of their on-site Hotels. That's a big deal and a big selling point. Will be for our family, being able to walk right over from our room.

If I'm Loews, I'm ecstatic.

It also gives them the opportunity to do all kinds of things around nighttime hours, entertainment - maybe even a night time show. That 200 ft Volcano is going to be it's own best billboard if they have it erupting at night....

totally agree

it adds another day on to your universal vacation so this is one I think Disney would pay attention to because this is a big deal

 

[twebber55]

I don't think he meant the official content. I think he's saying more the individual posters and commenters. I think there is a segment of the fanbase that doesn't give Universal its due.

agreed...which is somewhat understandable after all this is a Disney sight.....

 

[DDLand]

It is a Disney oriented forum after all, I think folks are just indifferent to Universal.

Some do seem to be indifferent, but it also seems like many take a side of hatred or love. While I certainly don't agree with many of the Disney doomsday predictions tied to Universal, any moderate theme park fan has to realize how massive any new park is. Some don't seem to get it.

 

[dice50]

All Disney fans should love and embrace Universal. The more they do the more Disney is forced to do to keep up. If Disney had zero competition I'm not sure more than one ride a decade would ever get built.

 

[clsteve]

I may be missing the ball completely on the Universal buildup, but I don't think they're within stricking distance of Disney in the 80's. Not by a mile.

I'd say the Resort Hotel Buildup at Universal has been greatly exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

Think about this for a second, since 2010 Universal has added 1800 rooms. If you were reading some of these forums you'd think Disney had been sitting around doing nothing. Instead, Disney has launched Art of Animation (more then 1600 rooms just there), DVC Grand Floridian, and DVC Polynesian. This was just after a extensive build-up that launched 695 new DVC properties in 2009.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2009-01-12/business/hotelsrail12_1_share-resort-disney

This was all during a recession and recovery in which tourism dollars were scarce.

These room additions dwarf (hah) Universal expansion. Even with the Sapphire Project underway over at their property, Disney would still have competitive unit expansion (with many of those rooms bought for the next 5 decades). Also now and fall of 2016 is long enough away that Disney could easily begin construction on new properties.

Disney during the 80's was all about boundary pushing. Whereas Disney didn't know if a third gate would really work, they did it anyway. They didn't know if Resort Buildup would really work, but they did it anyway. They didn't know if Pleasure Island would work, but they did it anyway. I think we occasionally forget just how revolutionary Walt Disney World is. Thanks to WDW Universal is following a model created by Disney. Disney didn't have that model during the 80's.


Update: 100% Volcano Bay is big news. It seems to be getting under reported everywhere.

I don't think it's overblown at all. If anything, it's underblown (if that's even a word). But I agree with you. They most definitely have learned from Disney and their strategy is fascinating and really well thought out.

Just looking at number of rooms isn't a good comparison without looking at what they're doing along with them.

Sapphire Falls is one thing - Sapphire Falls along with the huge expansion of the convention space co-located with RPH is another.

Same with Cabana Bay. huge addition to as an upscale value or moderate is one thing Cabana Bay with a groundbreaking new waterpark out the back door, is another. where it's being built really starts to pull the whole strategy together.

They're putting together a perfect 4 day vacation, and a perfect convention spot, that fits today's habits, all within walking distance, - without all of that overhead. It really is elegant.

They're playing the more nimble #2 competitor spot perfectly.

Twebber55 is spot on. Those folks who might buy one night on-site at Uni for EP, now a waterpark - (especially if it's groundbreaking like all the HP stuff)...You see what I mean. It's the grabbing days away when Disney's built so much on the 7 day vacation.

This isn't about Uni "winning". A lot of it's about exactly what you said about them learning from Disney.

 

[rteetz]

I don't think he meant the official content. I think he's saying more the individual posters and commenters. I think there is a segment of the fanbase that doesn't give Universal its due.

Correct

 

[rteetz]

I may be missing the ball completely on the Universal buildup, but I don't think they're within stricking distance of Disney in the 80's. Not by a mile.

I'd say the Resort Hotel Buildup at Universal has been greatly exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

Think about this for a second, since 2010 Universal has added 1800 rooms. If you were reading some of these forums you'd think Disney had been sitting around doing nothing. Instead, Disney has launched Art of Animation (more then 1600 rooms just there), DVC Grand Floridian, and DVC Polynesian. This was just after a extensive build-up that launched 695 new DVC properties in 2009.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2009-01-12/business/hotelsrail12_1_share-resort-disney

This was all during a recession and recovery in which tourism dollars were scarce.

These room additions dwarf (hah) Universal expansion. Even with the Sapphire Project underway over at their property, Disney would still have competitive unit expansion (with many of those rooms bought for the next 5 decades). Also now and fall of 2016 is long enough away that Disney could easily begin construction on new properties.

Disney during the 80's was all about boundary pushing. Whereas Disney didn't know if a third gate would really work, they did it anyway. They didn't know if Resort Buildup would really work, but they did it anyway. They didn't know if Pleasure Island would work, but they did it anyway. I think we occasionally forget just how revolutionary Walt Disney World is. Thanks to WDW Universal is following a model created by Disney. Disney didn't have that model during the 80's.


Update: 100% Volcano Bay is big news. It seems to be getting under reported everywhere.

While I agree I don't count DVC because UNI doesn't have that to compete with them. I would count AoA. They are building and expanding all the time it seems. And fast. The 80s was what popped in my head to compare it too. Disney is still so much larger than UNI but they are definitely getting bigger.

 

[rteetz]

It is a Disney oriented forum after all, I think folks are just indifferent to Universal.

Yes but this is big news because it means Disney has more competition

 

[rteetz]

All of this was mentioned awhile back on an episode of The DIS Unplugged.

I know I watch it regularly I'm talking about the boards and in general

 

[DDLand]

While I agree I don't count DVC because UNI doesn't have that to compete with them. I would count AoA. They are building and expanding all the time it seems. And fast. The 80s was what popped in my head to compare it too. Disney is still so much larger than UNI but they are definitely getting bigger.

I see how you can make that case, and I definitely considered your point but hear me out on DVC.

Who buys DVC? Is it first time or once in a lifetime guests? Nope, as you know it's the dedicated fanbase. Now consider this, where do you think these guests were staying? Universal or Disney? I think it's safe to say Disney. So by selling DVC Disney takes a part of the pool of potential buyers off the booking market. That leaves new and excess rooms to fill. This means Disney has essentially increased inventory by reducing demand. Luckily more and more guests are booking Disney offsetting any negative effects.

As some have pointed out, Disney since Kidani has removed capacity in cases but in the end always adds back more then was taken away.

Indeed they are getting bigger, and Disney's getting bigger with them. Disney could even be growing more then them in sheer attendance, profit, and revenue.

Now if this water park is in the same league or even better then Disney WPs, this will be the first real shots fired. Harry Potter pulled them back from the doldrums, and the hotels are nice. These projects were to get them healthy. Going to War with Disney is another matter entirely. If they pull through with a truly remarkable Water Park that crosses the quality mark into theme; that's when things get interesting.

 

[rteetz]

I see how you can make that case, and I definitely considered your point but hear me out on DVC.

Who buys DVC? Is it first time or once in a lifetime guests? Nope, as you know it's the dedicated fanbase. Now consider this, where do you think these guests were staying? Universal or Disney? I think it's safe to say Disney. So by selling DVC Disney takes a part of the pool of potential buyers off the booking market. That leaves new and excess rooms to fill. This means Disney has essentially increased inventory by reducing demand. Luckily more and more guests are booking Disney offsetting any negative effects.

As some have pointed out, Disney since Kidani has removed capacity in cases but in the end always adds back more then was taken away.

Indeed they are getting bigger, and Disney's getting bigger with them. Disney could even be growing more then them in sheer attendance, profit, and revenue.

Now if this water park is in the same league or even better then Disney WPs, this will be the first real shots fired. Harry Potter pulled them back from the doldrums, and the hotels are nice. These projects were to get them healthy. Going to War with Disney is another matter entirely. If they pull through with a truly remarkable Water Park that crosses the quality mark into theme; that's when things get interesting.

I agree on DVC but I just compare universal resorts with Disney resorts minus the DVC part because that is really it's own category but I completely understand what you are saying. I will say having not experience Harry potter but seeing it I think those were the first real shots fired because based on what I've seen and heard from people there is simply nothing like it. Disney has always been king in theming but I really think universal took a huge step with diagon alley because even the pictures make it look amazing and people say pictures don't do it justice.

Also I agree that if this water park is in the Disney or above category I think Disney will start to make a move. I think Disney could potentially update their water parks I mean when was the last time something new happened at one of them. I have only been to typhoon lagoon and loved it. I also come from wisconsin which has the wisconsin dells which is coined the water park capital of the country because there is a ton of them including Americas largest.

 

[DDLand]

I don't think it's overblown at all. If anything, it's underblown (if that's even a word). But I agree with you. They most definitely have learned from Disney and their strategy is fascinating and really well thought out.

Just looking at number of rooms isn't a good comparison without looking at what they're doing along with them.

Sapphire Falls is one thing - Sapphire Falls along with the huge expansion of the convention space co-located with RPH is another.

Same with Cabana Bay. huge addition to as an upscale value or moderate is one thing Cabana Bay with a groundbreaking new waterpark out the back door, is another. where it's being built really starts to pull the whole strategy together.

They're putting together a perfect 4 day vacation, and a perfect convention spot, that fits today's habits, all within walking distance, - without all of that overhead. It really is elegant.

They're playing the more nimble #2 competitor spot perfectly.

Twebber55 is spot on. Those folks who might buy one night on-site at Uni for EP, now a waterpark - (especially if it's groundbreaking like all the HP stuff)...You see what I mean. It's the grabbing days away when Disney's built so much on the 7 day vacation.

This isn't about Uni "winning". A lot of it's about exactly what you said about them learning from Disney.

They're playing the number 2 spot perfectly, and that's all they're playing. 100% with almost everything that you said until that grabbing Disney days sentence.

Orlando was made up of three options. Walt Disney World Vacations, WDW+etc. (Sea World, Universal, Busch Gardens, and Gatorland just because...), and then just the etc. guys.

Today the industry has polarized. Increasingly it's Walt Disney World Vacations, WDW+Universal, and Universal Orlando Vacations.

Universal has found its guests by stealing them from the other players and creating the resort feel. They realize, like Disney just how powerful it is for everyone to stay on property. However, as of right now there's nothing to suggest Disney is losing any guests to Universal. In fact as rteetz shared earlier, Disney is benefiting greatly from the strong tourism market in Orlando driven in part due to Universal.

They're trying to turn themselves into a credible Disney competitor. The entire experience. Heck, I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw a Universal's Wizarding Express coming soon. It seems to be working.

Just not in actually stealing anyone or the profits from Disney.


One question. You mention "without all the overhead." Eventually someone is going to have to pay the bills. Whether Loews or Universal. What comes along with that are the rewards. While it's true that Universal won't have the associated expenditures for hotel operation, they're also walking away from the lucrative profits. Is that really a good thing to be admired? If that was the case, I'd expect Disney to do more of that.

Update: Just read over my posts and realized I should've been more clear on the overblown remark. By overblown I meant it's not a serious threat to Disney Hotels as some like to paint it. Certainly not meant as a diss to Universal which is turning itself into a credible destination resort.

 

[DDLand]

I agree on DVC but I just compare universal resorts with Disney resorts minus the DVC part because that is really it's own category but I completely understand what you are saying. I will say having not experience Harry potter but seeing it I think those were the first real shots fired because based on what I've seen and heard from people there is simply nothing like it. Disney has always been king in theming but I really think universal took a huge step with diagon alley because even the pictures make it look amazing and people say pictures don't do it justice.

Also I agree that if this water park is in the Disney or above category I think Disney will start to make a move. I think Disney could potentially update their water parks I mean when was the last time something new happened at one of them. I have only been to typhoon lagoon and loved it. I also come from wisconsin which has the wisconsin dells which is coined the water park capital of the country because there is a ton of them including Americas largest.

I completely omitted Diagon Alley. You may be right there as the beginning. It doesn't seem to be moving the needle too much though. You're definitely right about the theming over there though. Pretty darn impressive.

When did Crush'n'Gusher come out? Feels like a long time ago. Those two could certainly use some new attractions. I'd imagine money goes a lot farther when the ride system is water, Gravity, and a tube. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw action on that front.

Update:2005. Whoa, I think a little competition wouldn't hurt here...

They're striking in a place where Disney has had around a 4 decade lead on them and has all but stagnated. Dang, this is personnel.

 

[rteetz]

I completely omitted Diagon Alley. You may be right there as the beginning. It doesn't seem to be moving the needle too much though. You're definitely right about the theming over there though. Pretty darn impressive.

When did Crush'n'Gusher come out? Feels like a long time ago. Those two could certainly use some new attractions. I'd imagine money goes a lot farther when the ride system is water, Gravity, and a tube. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw action on that front.

Update:2005. Whoa, I think a little competition wouldn't hurt here...

They're striking in a place where Disney has had around a 4 decade lead on them and has all but stagnated. Dang, this is personnel.

Exactly this could be a wake up call in the water park department of disney