News Round Up

[lockedoutlogic]

I would absolutely love to see the source for that.

The way it was explained to me is that there's more complexity to it than just your one Park.

There's always conflict on this, so would love to see what you have to put this to bed.

It would help us all...

I would as well...

But lets face it: we're never gonna know
For sure.

Disney won't ever disclose raw data... And the TEA number is probably some "closely guarded secret" formula.

I'm going to make a "reasonable" guess and say that traffic through MCO is a big part of that number...because I'm guessing flying patrons are by far the majority. 75-85%?

But until someone repels into the oculus at team Disney and goes mission:impossible on the computers...we'll Never know.

 

[Figmentforever24]

Don't mind discussions but when we start going pages in we might need to carry it over to another thread please. Thank you.

 

[skier_pete]

I would absolutely love to see the source for that.

The way it was explained to me is that there's more complexity to it than just your one Park.

There's always conflict on this, so would love to see what you have to put this to bed.

It would help us all...

I admit a quick search could not find me a source on this. I found it mentioned several times across the interwebs, but couldn't accredit it to the TEA survey that provides the results. I found a few references for Disneyland/DCA attendance numbers, and not many with the WDW numbers. Though, there are some fairly trusted on-line media sites (Theme Park Insiders and MiceAge) that state this is how it is calculated.

In fact, TEA describes there results (which everyone reports) as "estimates", though they do indicate they are partially "provided by the operator", though there's no way to tell if Disney provides these or not.

So, I can't conclusively prove that that is how they are calculated, but that's seems to be the anecdotal method. You can choose to believe it or not. I can't believe the way you phrase it, that the # of people in MK just reached levels not seen since 1997.

 

[clsteve]

I can't believe the way you phrase it, that the # of people in MK just reached levels not seen since 1997.

That was a SD, big thumb typo - 1991 was what it should have said. I need to start reading what I type before I post when I'm on this silly thing....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Don't mind discussions but when we start going pages in we might need to carry it over to another thread please. Thank you.

Didn't we have this discussion a month or two back?

General Disney discussion doesn't really fit into a dedicated new thread... And if you do that... Then it kills the discussion.

No offense meant.

 

[rteetz]

Don't mind discussions but when we start going pages in we might need to carry it over to another thread please. Thank you.

I actually think this is perfect this discussion doesn't fit anywhere else really.

 

[clsteve]

I actually think this is perfect this discussion doesn't fit anywhere else really.

I absolutely agree.

Numbers and background info never hurt - especially on a News and Rumors Board.

We've a very interesting EOY coming up. Coupled with a lot of interesting activity going on without the usual Disney PR machine "buff and polish" - from Maelstrom and the DHS closures to the no standby testing at TSMM and Soarin'.

Couple that with all rumors on such things as lower to flat attendance for some of the Parks and occ rate issues.

And the fact that the street's going to expect real numbers on NextGen returns, Avatar updates....

It's never a bad thing to be able to compare (as best we can) past performance to current, so we can assess why they might be doing something that's not modus operandi

Especially as we get to year's end.

Because, it looks like we'll have a lot to talk about.....

 

[rteetz]

Disney CMs should be able to book advanced FPs starting October 20th. Previously they were only allowed same day FPs. Their new window will be a 7 day advanced booking.

http://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2014/10/disney-cast-members-to-make-advance-fp.html

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I think we all know that all of the non-MK park attendance numbers are inflated.

C'mon...all of us post here year-round and all of the non-MK parks are usually reported as "non-crowded" and "light".

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think we all know that all of the non-MK park attendance numbers are inflated.

C'mon...all of us post here year-round and all of the non-MK parks are usually reported as "non-crowded" and "light".

Depends on size...

EPCOT and animal kingdom have much more path space to "hide people"

But in the case of EPCOT...I wouldn't be surprised if the attendance is "crooked accounting" to a certain extent.

They have really boned that place... To do a "half overhaul" of futureworld and then completely reverse course and shutdown any love, maintenance, and in some cases operations themselves is embarassing.

They've really abused her due to lack of vision, lack of resolve, and then a corporate mentality installed that had no use for her.

Very sad. Still a great park - but gets a "has not been built/ maintained to its potential" on the report card.

 

[rteetz]

Just saw an interesting fact.

A day at the magic kingdom costs roughly $105

A two day passport for both parks at TDL costs about $102...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just saw an interesting fact.

A day at the magic kingdom costs roughly $105

A two day passport for both parks at TDL costs about $102...

Disney doesn't set the pricing...

And Tokyo has been massively successful for 31 years...every single day.

I don't know if there's a conclusion to be drawn there - obviously a different market with different factors - but facts are facts

 

[rteetz]

Disney doesn't set the pricing... And Tokyo has been massively successful for 31 years...every single day. I don't know if there's a conclusion to be drawn there - obviously a different market with different factors - but facts are facts

I know disney doesn't set the pricing and that they are different markets I just thought it was an interesting fact.

 

[ChoppityChops]

I know disney doesn't set the pricing and that they are different markets I just thought it was an interesting fact.

Recalling a day-by-day review in one of the all ears.net blogs, I'm recalling that both Tokyo parks were incredibly crowded, and had 2-3 hour lines for even the chintziest of rides, hour lines for food/etc... I don't know if it's an exact correlation, but if THAT is the trade-off, then I am a fan of paying the extra so the parks aren't as crowded.

The other thing, is that transportation to/from the parks is not included in ticket pricing, nor is airport transportation, and food costs were reviewed as being smaller portions and substantially more expensive. So I wouldn't be surprised if they make back that same money elsewhere.

Definitely an interesting number though!

 

[sheetz]

TDR has a HUGE local AP population so their AP prices are high. Lower daily ticket prices probably help keep AP numbers down a little.

As for food, the general consensus seems to be that TDR food is of much higher quality than what is found in the stateside parks so I wouldn't bank on that being a major profit center. What I hear is that the Tokyo parks have higher per capita guest spending in part due to the Japanese gift giving culture as well as high spending "office ladies."

 

[beer dave]

I think your format is a little screwy there, Dave...


But if I get the crux of your argument...it sure seems like you're telling me to "get off their backs"

That's disappointing. Because they are a solid ten years behind on development for Disney parks... And the bottomline is that you can't make a defense of that unless its to first acknowledge that they want more money from the same goods - actually less in notable cases.

That's how you solve a problem: identify the base issue first and then compliment the response when warranted. Profits and revenues do not eliminate this problem. The end does not justify the means due to longterm erosion/weakening of the product. Are you seriously telling me the dollar for dollar return for the customer is better now than it was 10,15,20 years ago? You may think that's an acceptable slide...I'm just not playing on that kickball team.

But things are getting interesting for Disney all the way around. There are financial issues starting to come to light that is painting a different picture it seems. If there is massive construction starting at studios - it represents a fundamental shift in operations...as in there hasn't been any announcements.

Something has a fire lit. Or it's smoke and mirrors...and if I think that... They've earned it.

Sometimes you have to be quick to follow my ADD.

Not at all saying to get off their backs. And also a little disappointed.

As you are trying to get people to be aware of the decline and impending doom, I am trying to get you to realize that perspective in the wdw case is everything, and the vast majority of people, with the once every 2 to 5 years visit, still have a great time with the things that have become same old to some of us. Sorry I am not going to write several paragraphs of building statements leading to an unavoidable conclusion... that's not me.

The majority of visitors see new things every time they visit, and still enjoy the old things because " hey remember when we took the kids on this when they were just tall enough to get on?" They are the ones WDW is building for. It's our fault for going 4 times a year.

I'm sure you are right on the accountant viewpoint with the reasons behind all, and the dangled carrot syndrome, but couldn't it be that they have just worked through spending and taking a big chance on MMP and had to slow some projects in that period, and now have broken through that expense and can start implementing the construction plans they have been shelving?

Time will tell....

 

[faneuil]

But in the case of EPCOT...I wouldn't be surprised if the attendance is "crooked accounting" to a certain extent.

They have really boned that place... To do a "half overhaul" of futureworld and then completely reverse course and shutdown any love, maintenance, and in some cases operations themselves is embarassing.

I don't have any numbers on this, but I wonder how many Epcot after 4 AP they sell. Those ppl basically pay a premium just to use the restaurants in WS. But I would think they count towards Epcot attendance.

I realize it's a drop in the bucket regardless. But Epcot's the only park with that type of "special" pass.

Attendance just really got me thinking. Probably over thinking. Don't really know where I was going with that...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The problem with your theory, Dave...


Is that they have a long history of no (more accurately "little") development long before the FP+ hardware was starting to be installed.

Studios money has been more than "tight fisted" since it's opening.
Animal Kingdom has lagged since opening... And the MAIN problem has been lack of attractions to keep people in the park - almost nobody refuses that point.
And EPCOT was identified as a "problem"
In the mid to late 90's... And they started to address with test track, imagination, and mission space. They had tons of problems - we know...but the project to innovate/revamped
Was essentially abandoned in about 2003. Ground to a halt.

So now we get a new kiddie land, more shopping, and a third party development at DAK that NONE of us can figure out the contract deal that was made.

I sincerely hope that they now "attack" new development now that they put scanners
All over the parks and cute spinning Mickey lights...

But that is very much giving more benefit of the doubt than is probably warranted at this point.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't have any numbers on this, but I wonder how many Epcot after 4 AP they sell. Those ppl basically pay a premium just to use the restaurants in WS. But I would think they count towards Epcot attendance.

I realize it's a drop in the bucket regardless. But Epcot's the only park with that type of "special" pass.

Attendance just really got me thinking. Probably over thinking. Don't really know where I was going with that...

I think the after 4s are small.
They were apparently pretty popular in the 80s and 90s...but I think they have fallen off.

Those passes have no downside for Disney... As the people using them are almost exclusively coming to eat and drink... They arent packing pb&j for dinner. Guaranteed revenue generators.

 

[rteetz]

Recalling a day-by-day review in one of the all ears.net blogs, I'm recalling that both Tokyo parks were incredibly crowded, and had 2-3 hour lines for even the chintziest of rides, hour lines for food/etc... I don't know if it's an exact correlation, but if THAT is the trade-off, then I am a fan of paying the extra so the parks aren't as crowded. The other thing, is that transportation to/from the parks is not included in ticket pricing, nor is airport transportation, and food costs were reviewed as being smaller portions and substantially more expensive. So I wouldn't be surprised if they make back that same money elsewhere. Definitely an interesting number though!

I understand but MK is the most attended theme park in the world. So paying more for less crowds doesn't always work.

The oriental land company is a non profit company unlike disney