News Round Up

[luisov]

I'm sure California's median household income is pretty generous, but that's still insane. Given their recent decisions, it seems like the middle class is no longer of Disney's interest.

 

[vandy]

Ok, I'll bite.

So, if Star Wars is taking over the Indiana Jones area and part of the parking lot. Then why are they shutting down the Osbourne lights so soon? Obviously SOMETHING new is going there but with Toy Story and SW being Phase 1 and 2, it seems like a long way off.

Should be noted that Martin, in his post, stated that: "I've also been deliberately vague with the exact extent of particular areas. Nor can I really go into greater detail about some of it." I would only look at the sections on his map as general areas and not as specific boundaries. It does seem to validate that Star Wars is going into the parking lot area and validates the need for the announced parking garage.

 

[rteetz]

I'm sure California's median household income is pretty generous, but that's still insane. Given their recent decisions, it seems like the middle class is no longer of Disney's interest.

Well it is but Disney is looking at upper middle class you're not going to see top 1% just waltzing around Disney. With raising prices every year Disney is still seeing record attendance numbers so why wouldn't they raise the prices.

 

[rteetz]

garage.

GarageS...

 

[rteetz]

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...ey-world-go-too-far.aspx#.VhMYYsC0n74.twitter

 

[skier_pete]

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...ey-world-go-too-far.aspx#.VhMYYsC0n74.twitter

I think Disney is safe with these price increases as long as the ecomony is riding (relatively) high. The problem they will have is with the next economic slowdown. They got hit badly back in 2001 and to a lesser extent in 2008. But prices have climbed so sharply higher that a big-time slowdown would see a major hit to Disney.

As others have said - they aren't quite pricing out the "middle class" just the lower middle class. The upper middle class continues to be a fairly large group that keeps Disney going. Record attendance (even if not increasing as quickly % wise as Universal) drives them. Especially in California the crowds are so massive much of the year that they don't have room for more.

When the economy turns again in a few years - the Disney Parks better look out. You'll see the return of deep discounts.

 

[Fantasia79]

Another major outlet

http://time.com/money/4061526/disney-price-changes-increase/

While the price increase is really unfortunate news, the crowds are getting out of hand. This article nails it, hold back some of the crowds, movie people do off-peak times, and/or make a lot of money doing it. If the #1 complaint is about crowds, why not do something about it?

Most likely, people who go several times a year will cut back, trips will get shorter, etc.

They're adding to give more to do, magic bands and fast pass plus, redesigning the hub, and even an exit. When you step back and look at it all, it's all to manage crowds.

Still, really going to stink for a lot of families.

 

[rteetz]

The Ganachery is coming to Disney Springs

http://www.wdwmagic.com/shopping/th...-coming-to-disney-springs-later-this-year.htm

 

[rteetz]

Disney Junior Minnie Mouse meet and greet to open soon

http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...se-meet-and-greet-to-open-later-this-week.htm

 

[rteetz]

Brand new Good Dinosaur trailer

https://twitter.com/disney_dmr/status/651422781897183232

Personally I like this trailer better than the last one.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

I think Disney is safe with these price increases as long as the economy is riding (relatively) high. The problem they will have is with the next economic slowdown. They got hit badly back in 2001 and to a lesser extent in 2008. But prices have climbed so sharply higher that a big-time slowdown would see a major hit to Disney.

As others have said - they aren't quite pricing out the "middle class" just the lower middle class. The upper middle class continues to be a fairly large group that keeps Disney going. Record attendance (even if not increasing as quickly % wise as Universal) drives them. Especially in California the crowds are so massive much of the year that they don't have room for more.

When the economy turns again in a few years - the Disney Parks better look out. You'll see the return of deep discounts.

What is your definition of "upper" middle class? We're DVC members and typically when we go we stack 2-3 trips in a year to take advantage of APs, then skip a year, but the pricing is so crazy now... Family of 4 for 8 days - Airfare: $1600 if lucky; Rental car: $350; Platinum APs: $3000; TIW card: $150; Food / dining / sundries / souvenirs: $1600. That's insane.... Pushing $7,000 and we don't even have to pay for our room (well, we do in the fees and previous money spent for DVC, but not counting that). That's not chump change. What if you had to do a hotel room separately on top of that? another $3k. $10,000 for a disney vacation. Whoa. I could literally rent a house with a personal servant for a week with that amount of money. That's not upper middle class, that's the plain ole 1%.

We haven't been to WDW since summer 2014 and I'm not sure I want to go back. It was expensive then, but it is really getting crazy. Maybe we just go next time and use our DVC as a home base and do other stuff.

As some of the articles have suggested, I think this was a slight over-reach.

 

[saskdw]

I think Disney is safe with these price increases as long as the ecomony is riding (relatively) high. The problem they will have is with the next economic slowdown. They got hit badly back in 2001 and to a lesser extent in 2008. But prices have climbed so sharply higher that a big-time slowdown would see a major hit to Disney.

As others have said - they aren't quite pricing out the "middle class" just the lower middle class. The upper middle class continues to be a fairly large group that keeps Disney going. Record attendance (even if not increasing as quickly % wise as Universal) drives them. Especially in California the crowds are so massive much of the year that they don't have room for more.

When the economy turns again in a few years - the Disney Parks better look out. You'll see the return of deep discounts.

The key is that they can always make an instant market change by putting on specials and discounts if they need to. If attendance starts to lag they can throw Free Dining at it and if need be they can increase the Room Only discounts from 25% back up to 35%-40% like they used to. Jack the prices, then offer a discount and people think they are getting a great deal! LOL

 

[saskdw]

What is your definition of "upper" middle class? We're DVC members and typically when we go we stack 2-3 trips in a year to take advantage of APs, then skip a year, but the pricing is so crazy now... Family of 4 for 8 days - Airfare: $1600 if lucky; Rental car: $350; Platinum APs: $3000; TIW card: $150; Food / dining / sundries / souvenirs: $1600. That's insane.... Pushing $7,000 and we don't even have to pay for our room (well, we do in the fees and previous money spent for DVC, but not counting that). That's not chump change. What if you had to do a hotel room separately on top of that? another $3k. $10,000 for a disney vacation. Whoa. I could literally rent a house with a personal servant for a week with that amount of money. That's not upper middle class, that's the plain ole 1%.

We haven't been to WDW since summer 2014 and I'm not sure I want to go back. It was expensive then, but it is really getting crazy. Maybe we just go next time and use our DVC as a home base and do other stuff.

As some of the articles have suggested, I think this was a slight over-reach.

Everyone will have a slightly different opinion of what "upper" middle class is and what part of North America you live in will affect that as well. Where I'm from in western Canada you would need a house hold income north of $150,000 a year to be considered the lower end of that class.

We have been taking a yearly vacation in December to Orlando since 2008. Our trip costs have ranged in the $8000-$12,000 range. So this is nothing new. We go for a full 2 weeks and stay onsite. Going 3 times a year isn't in the cards for people that live 2500 miles away and pay $2000 for flights.

 

[skier_pete]

What is your definition of "upper" middle class? .

I would define upper middle class as probably being in excess of $100,000 in family income. This of course varies by region. (A family making $100,000 in San Fransisco doesn't live as well as here in Buffalo, NY) The "average" middle class income is in the $75,000. I would say $100,000 to $200,000 is upper middle class. $100,000 puts you in the top 22% of US family incomes, $150,000 a year puts in the top 10% of income - $200,000 puts you in the top 5 % - and in my books - that's where "rich" starts.

That's not upper middle class, that's the plain ole 1%

The top 1% is $400,000 or more - just so you know. And yeah - I'm sure they can afford a Disney vacation.

$10,000 for a disney vacation. Whoa.

I suppose that's easy enough to do - but I personally have never come close to $10,000, and in fact we typically stay around $4,000. There's only 3 of us, but we did 11 days and spent just over $4,000 and that includes my DVC dues - though we only had to buy 1 airfare because we flew the other two on points.

People can still choose to stay at values, or even stay off-site. Perhaps a deluxe $10,000 vacation is out of the realm of the middle class, but you can still work a week-long Disney vacation for a family of 4 for around $3000 plus airfare. And remember about 50 million people live within easy driving distance that don't have to pay for airfare, and therefore can go even cheaper.

Plus remember - most folks are going either "once in a lifetime" or "once every 4-5 years". It's a lot easier to justify that $3-10K once than it is every year.

I'm not denying that Disney's prices are going up faster than average incomes. However, somehow they continue to get MORE people to come, so something is going on there.

 

[saskdw]

- $200,000 puts you in the top 5 % - and in my books - that's where "rich" starts.

I'm not sure what the stats are in Canada, but our house hold income is in that $200,000 area and I do not consider us anywhere close to being rich. Yes we can afford some luxurys that others can't, but to me rich is having no financial concerns at all.

 

[soniam]

I'm not sure what the stats are in Canada, but our house hold income is in that $200,000 area and I do not consider us anywhere close to being rich. Yes we can afford some luxurys that others can't, but to me rich is having no financial concerns at all.

I agree with you; however, I think you are using a subjective definition of rich. Whereas, the top 1% defined by the feds is probably a good definition of rich. I suspect no matter how much money we made, unless it was in the millions, I still wouldn't feel "rich", comfortable probably. But I come from a long line of poor people that made some money by being frugal.

 

[skier_pete]

I'm not sure what the stats are in Canada, but our house hold income is in that $200,000 area and I do not consider us anywhere close to being rich. Yes we can afford some luxurys that others can't, but to me rich is having no financial concerns at all.

This is 10 years old - but looks like you are pretty close to the top 1 %. (This is 5 years ago data - but the best I could find with a quick search.)

Canadians in the top 10% of earners in 2010 netted a median income of$102,313, while the top 5% had an median income of $131,541 and the top 1% earned a median income of $264,943.Sep 11, 2013

But you made my point about being "rich" - because what you say is what most people would say: "Rich" = no financial concerns. I would bet if you talk to most people whose families make up to half a million or more in income, they still have financial concerns. They just have a bigger house, a nicer car, better schools for their kids, but they aren't "rich" because they still owe. I would in fact think most people would consider that "Rich" is defined as "More money than I make." In other words, a family making $50,000 a year would think someone making $150,000 a year was rich. A family making $150,000 would consider $250,000 a year rich, and a family making $250,000 a year would consider $400,000 rich.

Anyways - I'll stop now - getting far afield for a news thread!

 

[saskdw]

I agree with you; however, I think you are using a subjective definition of rich. Whereas, the top 1% defined by the feds is probably a good definition of rich. I suspect no matter how much money we made, unless it was in the millions, I still wouldn't feel "rich", comfortable probably. But I come from a long line of poor people that made some money by being frugal.

Agreed.

 

[saskdw]

This is 10 years old - but looks like you are pretty close to the top 1 %. (This is 5 years ago data - but the best I could find with a quick search.)



But you made my point about being "rich" - because what you say is what most people would say: "Rich" = no financial concerns. I would bet if you talk to most people whose families make up to half a million or more in income, they still have financial concerns. They just have a bigger house, a nicer car, better schools for their kids, but they aren't "rich" because they still owe. I would in fact think most people would consider that "Rich" is defined as "More money than I make." In other words, a family making $50,000 a year would think someone making $150,000 a year was rich. A family making $150,000 would consider $250,000 a year rich, and a family making $250,000 a year would consider $400,000 rich.

Anyways - I'll stop now - getting far afield for a news thread!

You are right for the most part. A lot does depend on money management and spending. Alot depends on whether people choose to make them selves house and car poor. You can "afford" an Infiniti, but all you need is a Nissan.

 

[soniam]

You are right for the most part. A lot does depend on money management and spending. Alot depends on whether people choose to make them selves house and car poor. You can "afford" an Infiniti, but all you need is a Nissan.

I don't know. I really needed that new Mini over a Ford Focus. It's for mental health reasons So, I guess it counts towards health care instead of transportation.