News Round Up 2016

[ColoradoDreamin]

Not sure why but this Duncan Dickson's quote in the article seems ridiculous to me:

"In the same article, former Disney executive Duncan Dickson said: “The entire property is interconnected via canals so it is difficult to keep them out of the lakes. Gators are on all of the golf courses. The team attempts to relocate the gators to the uninhabited natural areas as best they can, but the gators don’t understand the boundaries.”

He makes it sound like its a cultural miscommunication between humans and alligators.

Umm...no

 

[eXo]

Not sure why but this Duncan Dickson's quote in the article seems ridiculous to me:

"In the same article, former Disney executive Duncan Dickson said: “The entire property is interconnected via canals so it is difficult to keep them out of the lakes. Gators are on all of the golf courses. The team attempts to relocate the gators to the uninhabited natural areas as best they can, but the gators don’t understand the boundaries.”

He makes it sound like its a cultural miscommunication between humans and alligators.

His point is they can relocate gators all day long, but they come back. This is why wildlife authorities in Florida euthanize any gator they find over 4', as they have a habit of returning to the location they were removed from.

His second point is they can't keep gator's from coming in. It's a huge interconnected waterway. In the middle of swampland in Florida.

When things like this happen people want a failsafe solution to prevent it from happening again and they want to know why things weren't done to prevent it in the first place. Neither of these are realistic. There can be no failsafe because gators exist, they won't stop existing, and they won't stop showing up in/near bodies of water in central Florida. So the best thing that can be done is mitigate the danger through a combination of education\warnings (signage) and gator deterrents. And as far as what could have been done prior to this, well, Captain Hindsight loves to show up to these parties but the reality of it is a guest hasn't been attacked by an alligator on Disney property for 30 years (1986). In the past 30 years of operation, tens of millions of guests have stayed in those resorts and walked in the water on those beaches. Countless others have gone swimming in that water despite the warnings.

The event is a tragedy. My wife called me bawling yesterday as that is when she first heard about it. We were there with our family (our youngest being a 2 year old boy) just a few months ago. It is very easy for her to put herself in that situation, as I'm sure it is for many of you.

As usual however, there is a ridiculous over reaction being stirred up over this. Officials are "searching for a gator with attack marks", and in the process they are killing any other alligator they capture. The gator wasn't a serial killer. It's not mad with a taste for human blood. It was doing what any gator does, looking for something to eat. Killing every gator in that lake won't change what happened, nor will it prevent new gators from moving in and taking their place.

Even if I take a moment and try to put myself in the place of a father who lost his son in that terrible manner, I don't see how killing any gator (even the one who got him) would make me feel better. Might as well blame the alligator for being alive in the first place at that point or blame a bird for having feathers and flying.

Can we, as humans, not be supportive of the family and yet realistic about the situation at the same time?

 

[LSLS]

His point is they can relocate gators all day long, but they come back. This is why wildlife authorities in Florida euthanize any gator they find over 4', as they have a habit of returning to the location they were removed from.

His second point is they can't keep gator's from coming in. It's a huge interconnected waterway. In the middle of swampland in Florida.

When things like this happen people want a failsafe solution to prevent it from happening again and they want to know why things weren't done to prevent it in the first place. Neither of these are realistic. There can be no failsafe because gators exist, they won't stop existing, and they won't stop showing up in/near bodies of water in central Florida. So the best thing that can be done is mitigate the danger through a combination of education\warnings (signage) and gator deterrents. And as far as what could have been done prior to this, well, Captain Hindsight loves to show up to these parties but the reality of it is a guest hasn't been attacked by an alligator on Disney property for 30 years (1986). In the past 30 years of operation, tens of millions of guests have stayed in those resorts and walked in the water on those beaches. Countless others have gone swimming in that water despite the warnings.

The event is a tragedy. My wife called me bawling yesterday as that is when she first heard about it. We were there with our family (our youngest being a 2 year old boy) just a few months ago. It is very easy for her to put herself in that situation, as I'm sure it is for many of you.

As usual however, there is a ridiculous over reaction being stirred up over this. Officials are "searching for a gator with attack marks", and in the process they are killing any other alligator they capture. The gator wasn't a serial killer. It's not mad with a taste for human blood. It was doing what any gator does, looking for something to eat. Killing every gator in that lake won't change what happened, nor will it prevent new gators from moving in and taking their place.

Even if I take a moment and try to put myself in the place of a father who lost his son in that terrible manner, I don't see how killing any gator (even the one who got him) would make me feel better. Might as well blame the alligator for being alive in the first place at that point or blame a bird for having feathers and flying.

Can we, as humans, not be supportive of the family and yet realistic about the situation at the same time?

Honestly I agree with everything you said except for trying to find the gator that did the killing. One thing officials/experts will tell you is that when they are willing to attack humans, the gators must be caught and killed because they do not have fear of humans at that point/see them as food, and they are exponentially more likely to attack again. Also, gators will store food and let it rot a bit so they can get better chunks off. There is a real possibility the gator was doing that (which again means that gator sees humans as a food source). Killing the gator is something that is almost always done, and I don't have a problem with them doing it here. Everything else though, I'm with you. Hindsight, I think signs do need to be there and maybe some proper barriers to keep people away from the water (as well as closing beaches or at least immediate shoreline at dusk), but I'm not sure you anticipate this with how rare it is.

 

[eXo]

Honestly I agree with everything you said except for trying to find the gator that did the killing. One thing officials/experts will tell you is that when they are willing to attack humans, the gators must be caught and killed because they do not have fear of humans at that point/see them as food, and they are exponentially more likely to attack again.

Your assuming the gator *knew* it was attacking a human. Something splashing in the water near the shore is going to attract a water predator. The fact that the boy was found completely intact proves the gator didn't expect the meal it caught and moved on.

Had the boy been consumed, even partially, then maybe your argument would stand.

Surfers get attacked by sharks all the time because they look like seals when they are paddling on their boards. This doesn't mean the sharks have a taste for humans.

The reason I find the killing of the gators to be pointless is because more will just come right in. So unless they want a full time gator killing crew that is constantly on duty, then all this current gator killing is just for show.

 

[jlundeen]

Your assuming the gator *knew* it was attacking a human. Something splashing in the water near the shore is going to attract a water predator. The fact that the boy was found completely intact proves the gator didn't expect the meal it caught and moved on.

Had the boy been consumed, even partially, then maybe your argument would stand.

Surfers get attacked by sharks all the time because they look like seals when they are paddling on their boards. This doesn't mean the sharks have a taste for humans.

The reason I find the killing of the gators to be pointless is because more will just come right in. So unless they want a full time gator killing crew that is constantly on duty, then all this current gator killing is just for show.

And don't forget about the Animal Rights contingent - if Disney were to simply kill every gator they find, there would be an uproar. It's kind of a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation.

 

[Eoghann]

Oh my, that's a special kind of stupid to feed a wild alligator from your over water bungalow.

As I told my son's yesterday on an unrelated matter "the world is full of very stupid people"

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

Photo update

The Edison update

http://savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

I think it is fitting that this will go where part of the Adventurer's Club used to be. At least something mildly original and creative will be taking up the space.

I think it is kind of ironic, at least for me, that the one thing (or two, depending on if the tunnels are actually coming to be) is the last thing to be built when everything else is done.

 

[LSLS]

Your assuming the gator *knew* it was attacking a human. Something splashing in the water near the shore is going to attract a water predator. The fact that the boy was found completely intact proves the gator didn't expect the meal it caught and moved on.

Had the boy been consumed, even partially, then maybe your argument would stand.

Surfers get attacked by sharks all the time because they look like seals when they are paddling on their boards. This doesn't mean the sharks have a taste for humans.

The reason I find the killing of the gators to be pointless is because more will just come right in. So unless they want a full time gator killing crew that is constantly on duty, then all this current gator killing is just for show.

Not completely. If a gator takes a prey too big to eat, it stores it in the water so that the prey rots and they can eat it days later. Like I said, it's a risk you simply can't take. But they do have a fulltime crew to hunt for gators, and I'm sure due to the close proximity of people to the habitat, it is warranted. While you can't get them all, you can keep the numbers down, which hopefully keeps them from depleting their fish supplies and keeps them away from people.

 

[middlechild]

There is one new thing about the lakes however. The bungalows near Polynesian Resort over the water. Now people can feed alligators from the comfort of their back porch. If indeed this is happening, and a big if, then an unintended consequence is alligator problems elsewhere in the area.

 

[Phicinfan]

There is one new thing about the lakes however. The bungalows near Polynesian Resort over the water. Now people can feed alligators from the comfort of their back porch. If indeed this is happening, and a big if, then an unintended consequence is alligator problems elsewhere in the area.

its already been documented that folks ARE feeding the gators from those bungalows as well as other areas as well. Thus the other concern

 

[jaxonp]

It's only a mater of time where disney puts some sort of underwater nets to keep the gators out. I don't know how effective that will be but they will try something.

 

[eXo]

gators eat through nets, not to mention nets destroy boat motors. gators also tend to do things like, climb out of the water, walk past obstacles, and then get back in the water again.

There is no chemical or ultra sound type system I am aware of that works on alligators, yet those are the only options that would be foolproof.

 

[WhoDat09]

It's only a mater of time where disney puts some sort of underwater nets to keep the gators out. I don't know how effective that will be but they will try something.

They can probably float over underwater netting or could simply walk on land around it.

 

[LSLS]

gators eat through nets, not to mention nets destroy boat motors. gators also tend to do things like, climb out of the water, walk past obstacles, and then get back in the water again.

There is no chemical or ultra sound type system I am aware of that works on alligators, yet those are the only options that would be foolproof.

No, you aren't keeping them away. Really your best bet is to keep people away from them while removing gators over 4 feet whenever you can. I think if there is a true concern here, you need a barrier to keep people from the edge of the water, especially at night.

 

[rteetz]

its already been documented that folks ARE feeding the gators from those bungalows as well as other areas as well. Thus the other concern

No it has not been confirmed people are feeding them from the bungalows but it's possible they are. It has been reported in the Disney lake areas that people are feeding alligators. Which is illegal.

 

[rteetz]

It's only a mater of time where disney puts some sort of underwater nets to keep the gators out. I don't know how effective that will be but they will try something.

I just don't think that will work.

 

[rteetz]

No, you aren't keeping them away. Really your best bet is to keep people away from them while removing gators over 4 feet whenever you can. I think if there is a true concern here, you need a barrier to keep people from the edge of the water, especially at night.

What they should do is close the beaches at say 10PM and that's that. I don't know if that will happen but my guess is signing around the lakes will change.

 

[LSLS]

What they should do is close the beaches at say 10PM and that's that. I don't know if that will happen but my guess is signing around the lakes will change.

I think you need to make it dusk for anything non-Disney supervised (AKA movies), and have a CM that kind of watches over the area to make sure people don't run off or put some roping up to signify the area for the movie. I'm with you though, there is no need to be there once the sun is down.

 

[eXo]

What they should do is close the beaches at say 10PM and that's that. I don't know if that will happen but my guess is signing around the lakes will change.

Wouldn't have helped in this case. It happened before 10pm (9:15pm).

Besides, whats to stop a gator from attacking during the day? The boy attacked in 1986 was during the morning hours.

The point here is there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent a one in a million tragedy like this.

It is really hard for humans to accept this sometimes, but we can not control our environment 100%. Risks exist, even at magical places like Disney World.

All we can do is mitigate, and in this case, it is hard to argue that much more could have been done. Otherwise we are always preparing for the 100 year disaster. The type of thing that is so rare that most of us will never ever face it.

It's gotten to the point that anytime a tragedy happens someone runs to do something simply for the sake of doing something so we can all pretend it can never happen again. They pass a bill that limits things, or roll out a new security agency, or pass laws, or print signs, etc etc etc and all to try and prevent things that have already happened. Sometimes these things are common sense. More often then not, they aren't.

Even with zero changes to the current policy, Disney World is unlikely to see another attack of this kind over the next 50 years (simply going by the current statistics). On the other hand, they can rip out the beaches, put up barriers, hunt gators, and put large signs depicting children getting snatched away and achieve the same result.

 

[rteetz]

Wouldn't have helped in this case. It happened before 10pm (9:15pm).

Besides, whats to stop a gator from attacking during the day? The boy attacked in 1986 was during the morning hours.

The point here is there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent a one in a million tragedy like this.

It is really hard for humans to accept this sometimes, but we can not control our environment 100%. Risks exist, even at magical places like Disney World.

All we can do is mitigate, and in this case, it is hard to argue that much more could have been done. Otherwise we are always preparing for the 100 year disaster. The type of thing that is so rare that most of us will never ever face it.

It's gotten to the point that anytime a tragedy happens someone runs to do something simply for the sake of doing something so we can all pretend it can never happen again. They pass a bill that limits things, or roll out a new security agency, or pass laws, or print signs, etc etc etc and all to try and prevent things that have already happened. Sometimes these things are common sense. More often then not, they aren't.

Even with zero changes to the current policy, Disney World is unlikely to see another attack of this kind over the next 50 years (simply going by the current statistics). On the other hand, they can rip out the beaches, put up barriers, hunt gators, and put large signs depicting children getting snatched away and achieve the same result.

I agree that nothing would stop a gator attack during the day. I really only believe that biggest change we might see is signage.