New RIV Listing

[npatellye]

No it will have restrictions currently. Sorry if not clear- I meant a potential RESALE buyer of RIV will now have another brand new resort- RLL, which will not have restrictions impacting their own usage if they buy direct.
So, imagine RIV was 120 resale and I was tempted, I want a brand new resort with nearly 50 years. But RLL comes online at 180 say, no restrictions for me if I buy direct. I’m now thinking RIV is less attractive as I’m tempted to spend more and get RLL.

Got it! Like I said, it’s early here and I haven’t had coffee yet so thank you for clarifying for me in my brain fog!

 

[got4boys]

RLL is going to have restrictions. It is also going to be more expensive than Riviera price per point. I just can't get over the maintenance fees. It is the highest of all Walt Disney World DVC Resorts and they go up every year.

 

[Bing Showei]

RLL is going to have restrictions. It is also going to be more expensive than Riviera price per point. I just can't get over the maintenance fees. It is the highest of all Walt Disney World DVC Resorts and they go up every year.

Historically, actively sold resorts have not mirrored sold-out resorts in terms of ADs (annual dues) increases. For a couple of years, CCV ADs saw a credit due to differences between projected taxes and actual assessment figures. CCV ADs saw a small drop at one point during active sales.

Some attribute the stagnant AD rate at actively sold resorts to budget management finding its bearings for a new property, while others believe raising ADs on an actively sold property would likely hurt sales.

When first sold CCV dues were considered really high, but now it’s not too much above average. With the last bump, OKW ($7.83) is only 5% less than Riviera ($8.30).

Point charts in conjunction with dues is where you feel the one-two. It’s anyone’s guess where Reflections will land with point charts, but I’d put money on charts that reflect the trend that started when VGF was introduced.

 

[Sandisw]

RLL is going to have restrictions. It is also going to be more expensive than Riviera price per point. I just can't get over the maintenance fees. It is the highest of all Walt Disney World DVC Resorts and they go up every year.

They do, One thing that has changed with RIV is the reduction in bus service to/from Epcot and HS. It is now once an hour,

What we don’t know is that when setting the 2020 budget, did they account for this? Dues were set before that change was made,

While I am pretty confident they figured out a way to estimate Skyliner costs, but it was still only that. Could this have been overestimated in year 1? Dues have to reflect actual costs, but I would think that year 1 allows some wiggle room for those unknown expensive so you don’t have a massive increase year 2.

So, it will be interesting next year to see how RiVs fees change in relation to other resorts. Some resorts went up a good deal for 2020...so we already saw the gap close a little from when it went on sale and compared those fees to 2019 figures.

Not saying it will ever be lower than others, but there is a chance, depending on how those initial fees were determined with things needing to be estimated, that it’s increase next year, could be only the smaller end vs, the larger end,

 

[Soap_1984]

I also think true price discovery on riviera resale won't be available until we see them sell it out and possibly sell out reflections.

Everyone always says "this is a long term plan" if the only leg of their plan is to make resale cheap I'm not sure how that helps them. If the price gap between resale and direct gets too big you will have people piling in, especially existing owners that have qualified points. I am not a riviera fan at all, but if it was $80 my wife might buy 50 points behind my back.

 

[Sandisw]

I also think true price discovery on riviera resale won't be available until we see them sell it out and possibly sell out reflections.

Everyone always says "this is a long term plan" if the only leg of their plan is to make resale cheap I'm not sure how that helps them. If the price gap between resale and direct gets too big you will have people piling in, especially existing owners that have qualified points. I am not a riviera fan at all, but if it was $80 my wife might buy 50 points behind my back.

Lol...point charts require her to sneak in 100!

 

[ClemTig]

I also think true price discovery on riviera resale won't be available until we see them sell it out and possibly sell out reflections.

Everyone always says "this is a long term plan" if the only leg of their plan is to make resale cheap I'm not sure how that helps them. If the price gap between resale and direct gets too big you will have people piling in, especially existing owners that have qualified points. I am not a riviera fan at all, but if it was $80 my wife might buy 50 points behind my back.

What if they plan to purchase, say 90% of the resales and offer them at direct pricing?

 

[AKNOTTS66]

What if they plan to purchase, say 90% of the resales and offer them at direct pricing?

i dont think that fits their model. Their current model is market the new resort, sell it out and move to the next new one. They don't advertise or market more than 1 property. If they buy back 90% they would have to spend advertising money on marketing older resorts which they dont. Plus if this was there plan theyd be doing it all along. Instead they let BWV, AKV, BCV, etc all sell at 30-40% off direct. They could easily buy back all the contracts at the more in demand resorts and sell them direct but the currently dont. Remember disney allows the resale market as it is to to sell at its current prices with the way ROFR works. They just wont model themselves at holding lots of points on older resorts.

 

[Soap_1984]

What if they plan to purchase, say 90% of the resales and offer them at direct pricing?

That's what I was saying there must be more to this "plan" they have. I personally don't think they'd want to do what you said; it will cut into new resort sales and it's already hard enough to sell 6.7m points, they will then be selling every resort forever. I can't imagine they want to go about rofr every riviera contract and essentially become resellers themselves but I don't have the answer. My only point was they must have something else planned for when riviera has a boatload of contracts on the resale market because it will probably become one of the most actively sold since there will be a lot of points out there. Also they don't rofr while it's being actively sold so the price can plummet in resale if they don't sell out in the next 18 months.

I'd guess they will let you qualify the resold points for a fee that seems like the cheapest way for them to do it but anyone's guess is as good as mine.

 

[TexasChick123]

What if they plan to purchase, say 90% of the resales and offer them at direct pricing?

I’ve wondered this as well except buyers up their offers when things are getting taken back via ROFR. It’s the natural way of the market.

 

[ClemTig]

That's what I was saying there must be more to this "plan" they have. I personally don't think they'd want to do what you said; it will cut into new resort sales and it's already hard enough to sell 6.7m points, they will then be selling every resort forever. I can't imagine they want to go about rofr every riviera contract and essentially become resellers themselves but I don't have the answer. My only point was they must have something else planned for when riviera has a boatload of contracts on the resale market because it will probably become one of the most actively sold since there will be a lot of points out there. Also they don't rofr while it's being actively sold so the price can plummet in resale if they don't sell out in the next 18 months.

I'd guess they will let you qualify the resold points for a fee that seems like the cheapest way for them to do it but anyone's guess is as good as mine.

I get what you are saying. The whole resale restriction is hard to understand. They previously used high resale value as a selling point, and actively propped up prices with ROFR. Now they are devaluing resales. Not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't make much sense. It's like being at a craps table and betting on the shooter, and against the shooter at the same time. The only reason to do that is for the free beer.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

I get what you are saying. The whole resale restriction is hard to understand. They previously used high resale value as a selling point, and actively propped up prices with ROFR. Now they are devaluing resales. Not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't make much sense. It's like being at a craps table and betting on the shooter, and against the shooter at the same time. The only reason to do that is for the free beer.

Like others have mentioned it seems like paying an upgrade fee would make sense for disney. It would give them a chance to get some of the resale $$$ market back. I can just see it, Remove you resale restrictions for a $3,000 fee.

 

[ClemTig]

Like others have mentioned it seems like paying an upgrade fee would make sense for disney. It would give them a chance to get some of the resale $$$ market back. I can just see it, Remove you resale restrictions for a $3,000 fee.

If that happens, I will celebrate! The RIV buyers will not lose much in resale.

 

[Dizzydizney]

A quick question....when we sold some of our contracts, we had to own them free and clear ( or I might be remembering that wrong). Can you still have a mortgage and sell them? I can’t imagine someone selling their RIV for $135...unless they were a cast member (as they do receive good discounts but I thought there were rules in place for reselling). Or maybe it is deliberately being done by someone trying to influence DVC management..and maybe they won’t accept any offers? Will be interesting to see how these few resale contracts shake out. Some are buyers remorse for sure.

I think all the new resale restrictions (especially the one last January where no resales at any resort could use points for Riviera and all new resorts going forward) is part of their long range plan on dealing with the 2042 expiring resorts. I can see them in 10 years or so picking up as many contracts as possible in ROFR for BWV, BCV, Boulder Ridge. 3 very desirable locations. I can see them blocking off certain sections and start doing major gutting and interior renovations well before 2042. It would break my heart if they bulldozed BWV. It might be difficult to do that since so many things are shared with the Inn side. It could easily be done at BCV and Wilderness Lodge.

And you can bet that you will no longer get a standard view studio for as little as 10 points per night at BWV. I hope I live long enough to see what happens. I’ll be 85 or so. I’d love to be able to be one of those people that check out of the old BoardWalk villas on the very last day of the contract expiration.

What I don’t get is how some people seem enraged at DVC for implementing the resale restriction rule at Riviera. I’m sure the same will be for all new resorts going forward. DVC is a timeshare that’s located in DisneyWorld. Probably the best timeshare out there....although there are a couple out there that are good, but if you buy direct for some others, you will have something nearly worthless the next day. Spend some time at the TUG boards and you can read some horror stories from people that bought a timeshare for tens of thousands....then come to find out they could have gotten the same thing for next to nothing.

Although I’m okay with DVC, we did buy at Riviera knowing about the restrictions, my issue lies with corporate Disney and their money grabs. Not going to get into it, but the charging for parking at resorts is just awful. “Oh it’s the industry standard”. Well it wasn’t Disneys standard for decades. Although it doesn’t apply to me as a DVC member, it just wasn’t right.

 

[TexasChick123]

I get what you are saying. The whole resale restriction is hard to understand. They previously used high resale value as a selling point, and actively propped up prices with ROFR. Now they are devaluing resales. Not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't make much sense. It's like being at a craps table and betting on the shooter, and against the shooter at the same time. The only reason to do that is for the free beer.

I like this analogy, and I agree.

Like others have mentioned it seems like paying an upgrade fee would make sense for disney. It would give them a chance to get some of the resale $$$ market back. I can just see it, Remove you resale restrictions for a $3,000 fee.

I definitely think a “pay to play” fee is coming for switching at 7 months. Whether they do it on a individual reservation basis or a flat fee will be interesting to see.

 

[ClemTig]

What I don’t get is how some people seem enraged at DVC for implementing the resale restriction rule at Riviera. I’m sure the same will be for all new resorts going forward. DVC is a timeshare that’s located in DisneyWorld. Probably the best timeshare out there....although there are a couple out there that are good, but if you buy direct for some others, you will have something nearly worthless the next day. Spend some time at the TUG boards and you can read some horror stories from people that bought a timeshare for tens of thousands....then come to find out they could have gotten the same thing for next to nothing.

"Enraged"? You can tell emotion on a message board? Hoping for it to fail is not the same thing as "enraged". If someone gives you .60 for something that you used to get $1 for, you're supposed to be happy because at least you got more than some other idiot that did much worse? I don't get your logic. Most of us would never buy other timeshares, they are clearly a ripoff, so that is not the standard by which we judge DVC. If the DVC "deal" gets worse each year, there is no way most owners are going to be "ok" with it.

 

[Sandisw]

A quick question....when we sold some of our contracts, we had to own them free and clear ( or I might be remembering that wrong). Can you still have a mortgage and sell them? I can’t imagine someone selling their RIV for $135...unless they were a cast member (as they do receive good discounts but I thought there were rules in place for reselling). Or maybe it is deliberately being done by someone trying to influence DVC management..and maybe they won’t accept any offers? Will be interesting to see how these few resale contracts shake out. Some are buyers remorse for sure.

I think all the new resale restrictions (especially the one last January where no resales at any resort could use points for Riviera and all new resorts going forward) is part of their long range plan on dealing with the 2042 expiring resorts. I can see them in 10 years or so picking up as many contracts as possible in ROFR for BWV, BCV, Boulder Ridge. 3 very desirable locations. I can see them blocking off certain sections and start doing major gutting and interior renovations well before 2042. It would break my heart if they bulldozed BWV. It might be difficult to do that since so many things are shared with the Inn side. It could easily be done at BCV and Wilderness Lodge.

And you can bet that you will no longer get a standard view studio for as little as 10 points per night at BWV. I hope I live long enough to see what happens. I’ll be 85 or so. I’d love to be able to be one of those people that check out of the old BoardWalk villas on the very last day of the contract expiration.

What I don’t get is how some people seem enraged at DVC for implementing the resale restriction rule at Riviera. I’m sure the same will be for all new resorts going forward. DVC is a timeshare that’s located in DisneyWorld. Probably the best timeshare out there....although there are a couple out there that are good, but if you buy direct for some others, you will have something nearly worthless the next day. Spend some time at the TUG boards and you can read some horror stories from people that bought a timeshare for tens of thousands....then come to find out they could have gotten the same thing for next to nothing.

Although I’m okay with DVC, we did buy at Riviera knowing about the restrictions, my issue lies with corporate Disney and their money grabs. Not going to get into it, but the charging for parking at resorts is just awful. “Oh it’s the industry standard”. Well it wasn’t Disneys standard for decades. Although it doesn’t apply to me as a DVC member, it just wasn’t right.

Just FYI. CM discounts are not what they used to be. I got an extra $1K on the 175 points since my DD is a CM. And she was becoming an owner too.

You can sell with a mortgage but you have to pay it off to complete the sale. It won’t go through until you do. But one can do it at closing with proceeds from the sale and sellers own money to cover any shortfalls.

 

[TexasChick123]

My guess is a divorce, bankruptcy, death, job loss, etc. Disney refers distressed sellers to Fidelity.

 

[Bing Showei]

Although I’m okay with DVC, we did buy at Riviera knowing about the restrictions, my issue lies with corporate Disney and their money grabs. Not going to get into it, but the charging for parking at resorts is just awful. “Oh it’s the industry standard”. Well it wasn’t Disneys standard for decades. Although it doesn’t apply to me as a DVC member, it just wasn’t right.

Ok. This is about the clearest case of cognitive dissonance that I’ve ever seen.

“Industry standard” is the exact terminology used by guides to justify these very resale restrictions when they released them and had to defend them to current members who raised the issue; that every other timeshare cripples their resale product and people can’t sell them for anywhere near what people pay direct for them. I heard that from two different guides, almost verbatim.

Hate to break it to you, but the new resale restrictions is “corporate Disney and their money grab” at its purest. The difference being that you’re ok with it in this case because you have determined that you are benefiting more from buying in than being harmed by the restrictions. But it’s the same greed you lament over parking fees.

 

[Dizzydizney]

Well that was really unnecessary. Still trying to figure out why there is this entitlement attitude that DVC owes people something. It’s a timeshare. Do a little research about other timeshares. My point about the parking fees...people save for a few years to be able to stay at places like Pop century...suddenly you have to pay to park the car you drove a couple thousand miles. There was no need for this. It made me angry for the people that are not as fortunate as me. DVC charging more for points, making new restrictions, etc etc. dont buy DVC if it doesn’t make you happy. Or if you can’t afford it. Seriously...
My other thought...serial renters are looking forward to rock bottom resale prices at Riviera so they can scoop up cheap contracts to rent out to nonmembers, so they keep up the negativity about Riviera.