New RIV Listing

Heather07438

WDW Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
In the long term possibly RIV, REFL and maybe 2 other new resorts are in full swing by 2030. As the last decade approaches on 2042 resorts, maybe they're setting up a way to split out 2 DVC trading groups somehow? As the point pool expands it'll only become harder to control, and must be high on their radar. I'm not sure how they can achieve this exactly considering how contracts currently stand, but it seems wise to leave options open for themselves moving forward.

Addonitis is a real thing so 2 groups wouldn't hurt sales or interest. Buyers could commonly respond by owning at least 1 contract in each. Groupings of 10 resorts (or less) has reasonable advantages for both owners & DVC. Plus they could still add a way to hop between groups. Crafty, crafty ;)

My uneducated guess for DVC:

Group 1 Classic-
AKL, AU, BLT, CC, GC, GF, Poly, SSR

Group 2-
BCv2, BRv2, BWv2, REFL, RIV, 2027?, 2030?

Wildcards-
HH, OKW, Vero
 

ClemTig

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
In the long term possibly RIV, REFL and maybe 2 other new resorts are in full swing by 2030. As the last decade approaches on 2042 resorts, maybe they're setting up a way to split out 2 DVC trading groups somehow? As the point pool expands it'll only become harder to control, and must be high on their radar. I'm not sure how they can achieve this exactly considering how contracts currently stand, but it seems wise to leave options open for themselves moving forward.

Addonitis is a real thing so 2 groups wouldn't hurt sales or interest. Buyers could commonly respond by owning at least 1 contract in each. Groupings of 10 resorts (or less) has reasonable advantages for both owners & DVC. Plus they could still add a way to hop between groups. Crafty, crafty ;)

My uneducated guess for DVC:

Group 1 Classic-
AKL, AU, BLT, CC, GC, GF, Poly, SSR

Group 2-
BCv2, BRv2, BWv2, REFL, RIV, 2027?, 2030?

Wildcards-
HH, OKW, Vero
I think predicting where Disney's mindset is today is unlikely. Predicting where they will be at in 10 years is impossible.
 

Heather07438

WDW Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
I think predicting where Disney's mindset is today is unlikely. Predicting where they will be at in 10 years is impossible.
True story. But it is fun!

I think they don't even have a set plan, more just having an idea of general options and pathways.
 

mustinjourney

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2016
I think it will settle eventually around the $100/pt, similar to AKV and SSR.

I definitely think, as someone who went from no way to being an owner, and having other qualified points, a good deal, even at $120 would peak my interest If was in the market for more points

New buyers, though, not sure even $120, would be enough, unless they are also buying a resale contract to trade. In that case, I could see it!
I'll take the over on that one.

BCV and BWV are pretty good comparables for pricing and they are now both well over $100 on the resale market. People buying those properties are paying a huge premium for those resorts...and b/c of that, they are not likely going to use them as "sleeping around" points. RIV is going to be the same.

My guess is that typical RIV resale buyers are going to likely be existing owners and will have other qualified points.
 

mustinjourney

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2016
I get what you are saying. The whole resale restriction is hard to understand. They previously used high resale value as a selling point, and actively propped up prices with ROFR. Now they are devaluing resales. Not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't make much sense. It's like being at a craps table and betting on the shooter, and against the shooter at the same time. The only reason to do that is for the free beer.
if you do come bets and don't come bets, you can actually win both if the come bet hits first before shooter craps out.
 

jerseyduke

Home is just where you stay when not at WDW
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
current incentives at 190 points give $3000 savings -- so the price per point drops to about $180 pp buying direct. I can't see anyone only paying a $12 discount for this -- not to mention this contract doesn't have full points (only 4 points from 2019 UY)...plus they can't close until July. This thing is going to sit for a long time -- or close at a much steeper discount.
Totally agree.

However, if you are selling a contract that has a pending reservation, why not list early and swing for the fences?
Give it til June to see if they can get a bite, if not then it will go lower.

"Can't close until contracts" are different animals because the buyer clearly isnt under and eminent need to sell
 

jerseyduke

Home is just where you stay when not at WDW
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
RLL is going to have restrictions. It is also going to be more expensive than Riviera price per point. I just can't get over the maintenance fees. It is the highest of all Walt Disney World DVC Resorts and they go up every year.
People almost fell over with the MFs when the poly was introduced. Now its par for the course. BLT MF's would make people drool when that went on sale. Now it too is in line with everything else.
 

Heather07438

WDW Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Yeah wow. There isn't much difference between 190 or 200 points. 200 points Direct right now go for $175pp. $168 pp is only saving $7 a point but the contract is also missing the first year of points.
 

AKNOTTS66

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
People almost fell over with the MFs when the poly was introduced. Now its par for the course. BLT MF's would make people drool when that went on sale. Now it too is in line with everything else.
BLT and POLY and SSR are still some of the lower ones though. 6.55, 6.79, and 6.77. The difference on 200 points over 20 years is $6,000-7,000 more in MFs over Riviera if the fees increase in similar amounts.
 

mustinjourney

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2016
BLT and POLY and SSR are still some of the lower ones though. 6.55, 6.79, and 6.77. The difference on 200 points over 20 years is $6,000-7,000 more in MFs over Riviera if the fees increase in similar amounts.
except they likely won't increase in similar amounts...at least not for the next 5 years.
 

jerseyduke

Home is just where you stay when not at WDW
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
BLT and POLY and SSR are still some of the lower ones though. 6.55, 6.79, and 6.77. The difference on 200 points over 20 years is $6,000-7,000 more in MFs over Riviera if the fees increase in similar amounts.
But Poly was among the highest when it went on the market. I think only 2nd to AK at the time (Of the WDW properties). And BLT was absurdly low when it went on the market compared to the others. I'm not arguing the validity of the expense of dues of the course of time, just pointing out that introductory dues aren't always a sign of what is to come.

However, I do think that it is a mistake to look str8 at dues per point.
BRV is 7.7808 per point
VGF is 6.5616
Big Difference - over a dollar a point
.
But the same week(8 days) I use is 123 points (BRV) vs 145 points(VGF).
which makes the dues for the week 957 (BRV) and 951(VGF) - a difference of 6$

But since DRR is so point hungry, yes, currently its dues are in the stratosphere. Just a question of what they do in the next few years. CCV has the highest when it first went on sale, now AKV is higher.
Comparing DRR to VGF - same 8 days - std view studio
DRR is 1047 for those 8 days, almost 100 bucks more than VGF in dues for the "same" room
 

ClemTig

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
People almost fell over with the MFs when the poly was introduced. Now its par for the course. BLT MF's would make people drool when that went on sale. Now it too is in line with everything else.
It's like "gravity" is drawing the all to the same point. It's not like Disney would "fix it" so they were all about the same so nobody would complain, would they? ;-)
 

DVC BLT

Mouseketeer
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Ok. This is about the clearest case of cognitive dissonance that I’ve ever seen.

“Industry standard” is the exact terminology used by guides to justify these very resale restrictions when they released them and had to defend them to current members who raised the issue; that every other timeshare cripples their resale product and people can’t sell them for anywhere near what people pay direct for them. I heard that from two different guides, almost verbatim.

Hate to break it to you, but the new resale restrictions is “corporate Disney and their money grab” at its purest. The difference being that you’re ok with it in this case because you have determined that you are benefiting more from buying in than being harmed by the restrictions. But it’s the same greed you lament over parking fees.
Wow man, that's one heck of a post on a fan message board... can we dial it down a tad?

Corporations have the right to charge what they want, and you have the option to buy or not. Entitled is absolutely the word here... SMH...

By the way, and because I cant help myself, was it really the "clearest case of cognitive dissonance" you have ever seen? Do you document them as you see them?
 

Bing Showei

DIS Veteran
DVC Gold
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
By the way, and because I cant help myself, was it really the "clearest case of cognitive dissonance" you have ever seen? Do you document them as you see them?
My apologies. I was speaking in hyperbole in case you felt slighted. Your post about not wanting to buy BWV because of it's state of disarray and then turning around and buying the newest resort because Disney may actually be turning a page and adopting a new attitude about being better about upkeep of its properties starting with the one you just bought, may trump the previous post in terms of the disconnect I was speaking to. I didn't mean to suggest the assertions you made were less conflicting. I'll try to be better about tracking/documenting such things so as to not sound so absolute.
Corporations have the right to charge what they want, and you have the option to buy or not. Entitled is absolutely the word here... SMH...
I've never maintained that Disney didn't have a right to charge what they want. In fact, my response to DizzyDizney was to highlight that Disney charging for parking and then adopting a position of the practice being "industry standard" is the exact same process by which the new resale restrictions were born. Achieving "industry standard" seems to be the lodestar for Disney management today. And clearly DizzyDizney was ok with that. But charging for parking for "those less fortunate" was a bridge too far

"Entitled" is a favorite term to be bandied about it seems whenever people take issue with resale restrictions, and I'm curious as to how you see this applicable to my post above. I've never hidden my feelings about the restrictions and the impact this has on the product. I'm unclear on how you are translating that into a sense of entitlement.

You yourself stated that if Disney were to ever create a product that would make your ability to book more challenging (Doomsday Riviera booking scenario), you'd be upset and would never buy again. Does that reflect the same sense of entitlement that you seem so keen to level against others who don't share your lackadaisical attitude about the wholesale damage to ownership in the name of the bottom line? Or is that vocalization of disappointment and financial protest less entitled and more an exercise of free market forces?

I would argue that speaking out against a move by Disney management that fundamentally changes the product they sell in order to increase their healthy profit margins is about as free market as Disney making the change itself, but as a Riviera owner, you seem to have an acute sensitivity to this.
 

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
I definitely think a “pay to play” fee is coming for switching at 7 months. Whether they do it on a individual reservation basis or a flat fee will be interesting to see.
They would be required to do it both ways then correct? I can't imagine the rules allow them to cut out all resale from trading in to RIV but allow resale to trade out for some type of fee.

Same with removing the resale restrictions in general. If they did it would have to go both ways you would think.
 

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
BCV and BWV are pretty good comparables for pricing and they are now both well over $100 on the resale market. People buying those properties are paying a huge premium for those resorts...and b/c of that, they are not likely going to use them as "sleeping around" points. RIV is going to be the same.
They are not good comparables really at all. Yes they have less time but they are closer to the parks, you can walk to both parks, have lower MFs, and are way less in points/night.

I keep saying it and I will say it again you can love RIV but the location of BWV/BCV is like VGF/POLY while RIV location is more so like BRV/CCV. The primary reason they will start to sell at roughly the same price in resale long term is because of the short time span on BWV/BCV.

"Entitled" is a favorite term to be bandied about it seems whenever people take issue with resale restrictions,
Agreed and I would add entitled is also thrown around any time someone calls out a crappy new company policy. It is not entitled to want to have companies treat you like a valued customer instead of a checkbook. Its also not entitled to expect them to act like the last 40 years as opposed to how they are acting in the last 5 years. Its also not entitled to expect modest increases that are slightly over inflation instead of 2-3-4-5x over inflation.
 

mustinjourney

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2016
They are not good comparables really at all. Yes they have less time but they are closer to the parks, you can walk to both parks, have lower MFs, and are way less in points/night.

I keep saying it and I will say it again you can love RIV but the location of BWV/BCV is like VGF/POLY while RIV location is more so like BRV/CCV. The primary reason they will start to sell at roughly the same price in resale long term is because of the short time span on BWV/BCV.
have you stayed at RIV yet? The skyliners are very comparable to the monorail. It’s 10 mins to both Epcot and DHS.

Location wise, I’d say that BCV is like BLT and RIV is like Poly.

CCV/BRV aren’t good analogies location wise. They have access to only one park whereas poly/RIV have great access to two parks.
 

Wakey

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
BLT and POLY and SSR are still some of the lower ones though. 6.55, 6.79, and 6.77. The difference on 200 points over 20 years is $6,000-7,000 more in MFs over Riviera if the fees increase in similar amounts.
You have to compound the difference if they increased by similar amounts- I always put today’s fees in a compound interest calculator at 5% for a worst case. It could be worse, could be a bit better. Do that and RIV extra fees are a hell of a lot more than 6-7k over 30 years than say, SSR. Don’t take a 20 year period, as the compounding effect increases substantially the longer you go- and we are all told Riviera owners never intend to sell ;-)
So say you own 200 points. Using this best guess methodology your dues per annum at RIV in 30 years would be $7183 pa. That is per year, it has grown every year to reach that.
SSR dues would be $5843 pa in 30 years.
So over $1300 difference per year by then.
I haven’t calculated what the extra dues would be over the 30 years but it is a huge sum, much more than $6-7 k.
 

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