New RIV Listing

AKNOTTS66

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
well -- for one -- some people like the location of the riviera, given access to the skyliners. The only comparables for the location (in DVC) would be BWV or BCV.

Secondly -- RIV is much better appointed than BCV or BWV -- and it has better room layout with better views than either BCV or BWV.

Not to mention -- 50 years vs 22 years of availability.

So for anyone looking for an Epcot resort, RIV is a good option.

Poly can also act as an Epcot resort...and it has the advantage of being an MK resort as well, with its proximity to the TTC -- but it has the problem of no 1BR or 2BR units (yes -- bungalows are 2BRs technically -- but they are more expensive than GVs).

yes -- if you buy L14 you can stay at BWV or BCV -- but good luck getting a room during those hard to get times. You're at the whim of the 7 month availability and that is slim pickings for much of the year...at least with studios or 2BRs.

If you're good with 1BRs, then I could see a very good case for SSR resale as a substitute.
I think you misunderstood me sorry. I like Riviera. A lot actually. I'm in the process of buying Riviera or Copper Creek. I was only saying I wouldn't buy Riviera at such a high price Resale. If you want Riviera buy Direct or wait till its a lot lower resale. Riviera is a very very nice resort.
 

Disney Dad ADL

DIS Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Riviera is really nice I thought, we just stayed in a 3 BR late January and my wife really loved it there. But I think it's hard to determine much from the resale prices quite yet. IMO, resale prices are overpriced during the first couple years due to the low supply, since very few people are selling.

For example, look at Polynesian. This is not a perfect science of course, but looking at prices from late 2016 (which was more than a year after it opened)


There were a few sales which in my view was overpriced considering the other resorts:
Poly - $117, $130, $130, $154
VGF - $120, $120, $129
BLT - $109-$128

Poly was selling for a significant premium above BLT and even above VGF. In my view, that's too high for Poly, and this is more than a full year after it opened. The effect on Riviera will likely be worse because it's only been open for a few months.

You can see how it looks now that the supply of Poly is loosening up:


Poly - $132-$150
VGF - $155-165
BLT - $132-153

This makes more sense to me. VGF at the top. Poly lower, close to BLT or maybe slightly above.

I suspect that Riviera will come down (relative to other resorts) as more people start selling when they realize they don't want their contracts anymore, and buyers will have more to choose from.
 
  • Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Riviera is really nice I thought, we just stayed in a 3 BR late January and my wife really loved it there. But I think it's hard to determine much from the resale prices quite yet. IMO, resale prices are overpriced during the first couple years due to the low supply, since very few people are selling.

    For example, look at Polynesian. This is not a perfect science of course, but looking at prices from late 2016 (which was more than a year after it opened)


    There were a few sales which in my view was overpriced considering the other resorts:
    Poly - $117, $130, $130, $154
    VGF - $120, $120, $129
    BLT - $109-$128

    Poly was selling for a significant premium above BLT and even above VGF. In my view, that's too high for Poly, and this is more than a full year after it opened. The effect on Riviera will likely be worse because it's only been open for a few months.

    You can see how it looks now that the supply of Poly is loosening up:


    Poly - $132-$150
    VGF - $155-165
    BLT - $132-153

    This makes more sense to me. VGF at the top. Poly lower, close to BLT or maybe slightly above.

    I suspect that Riviera will come down (relative to other resorts) as more people start selling when they realize they don't want their contracts anymore, and buyers will have more to choose from.
    RIV prices will definitely come down, especially with the resale restriction of those points, once bought on resale market, only being valid for stays at RIV...no trading to other resorts. Right now, they are higher because you have owners who are selling within a year of buying and trying to recoup as much as they can for them.

    IMO, I think that the resale is probably going to settle in the first few years around $120 to $130 ish. After that, once you hit 5 years from now, I think it will settle closer to the $100 to $110 mark. But, just my predictions!!!
     

    RaymOOOnd

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jun 14, 2015
    Not so sure... I think that people buy resort contracts when they feel overtaken by excitement about a specific resort, whether resale or direct. As the direct pricing rises ad infinitum, resale can stay just a small step behind it and always feel like a deal to someone who is totally taken with the resort. Perhaps not realizing that one day they'll wish to stay elsewhere
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Not so sure... I think that people buy resort contracts when they feel overtaken by excitement about a specific resort, whether resale or direct. As the direct pricing rises ad infinitum, resale can stay just a small step behind it and always feel like a deal to someone who is totally taken with the resort. Perhaps not realizing that one day they'll wish to stay elsewhere
    Yes, there certainly could be someone who buys because they don't care about trading out. However, the pool of buyers who are going to want to buy with that restriction are going to be much smaller than with previous resorts. The smaller the buying pool, the longer it will take to sell, and the lower the price is going to be for a seller to actually sell it, if they are concerned about getting it sold quickly.

    So, I don't think you can take what has happened and apply it to RIV because it really is quite a different product than any other DVC resorts. Plus, in order for someone who just wants RIV to buy resale vs. direct, don't you think the savings would have to be quite substantial from direct for those new buyers?
     

    vnovabri

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 9, 2016
    Yes, there certainly could be someone who buys because they don't care about trading out. However, the pool of buyers who are going to want to buy with that restriction are going to be much smaller than with previous resorts. The smaller the buying pool, the longer it will take to sell, and the lower the price is going to be for a seller to actually sell it, if they are concerned about getting it sold quickly.

    So, I don't think you can take what has happened and apply it to RIV because it really is quite a different product than any other DVC resorts. Plus, in order for someone who just wants RIV to buy resale vs. direct, don't you think the savings would have to be quite substantial from direct for those new buyers?
    I agree but I also wonder how low it can possibly go, at some point even being locked into Riviera only it will still be too good of a deal to pass up. Right now there is a lot of negative bias against Riviera because of the restrictions, gondola, etc. Which will settle down over time.

    Let's do a hypothetical, if poly or be had similar restrictions, there are plenty of people who would have no problem only staying there and jump at the chance to buy in cheaper than a more flexible resort. It's just a matter where that final price lands, I think it'll be interesting to see where that lands.

    Plus people who are adding on won't be as turned off if they are looking to addon a Epcot/HS access resort (like us). It's definitely too soon to buy now because people selling will want to recoup their codes but I could see something like $120pp being an eventually settling point
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I agree but I also wonder how low it can possibly go, at some point even being locked into Riviera only it will still be too good of a deal to pass up. Right now there is a lot of negative bias against Riviera because of the restrictions, gondola, etc. Which will settle down over time.

    Let's do a hypothetical, if poly or be had similar restrictions, there are plenty of people who would have no problem only staying there and jump at the chance to buy in cheaper than a more flexible resort. It's just a matter where that final price lands, I think it'll be interesting to see where that lands.

    Plus people who are adding on won't be as turned off if they are looking to addon a Epcot/HS access resort (like us). It's definitely too soon to buy now because people selling will want to recoup their codes but I could see something like $120pp being an eventually settling point
    I think it will settle eventually around the $100/pt, similar to AKV and SSR.

    I definitely think, as someone who went from no way to being an owner, and having other qualified points, a good deal, even at $120 would peak my interest If was in the market for more points

    New buyers, though, not sure even $120, would be enough, unless they are also buying a resale contract to trade. In that case, I could see it!
     

    vnovabri

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 9, 2016
    I think it will settle eventually around the $100/pt, similar to AKV and SSR.

    I definitely think, as someone who went from no way to being an owner, and having other qualified points, a good deal, even at $120 would peak my interest If was in the market for more points

    New buyers, though, not sure even $120, would be enough, unless they are also buying a resale contract to trade. In that case, I could see it!
    For sure, it'll probably take 3yrs or more to find out sadly. AK and SSR prices would be a good landing spot expectations wise. I think it'll at least value higher than AUL for sure.
     

    Disney Dad ADL

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 17, 2015
    RIV prices will definitely come down, especially with the resale restriction of those points, once bought on resale market, only being valid for stays at RIV...no trading to other resorts. Right now, they are higher because you have owners who are selling within a year of buying and trying to recoup as much as they can for them.

    IMO, I think that the resale is probably going to settle in the first few years around $120 to $130 ish. After that, once you hit 5 years from now, I think it will settle closer to the $100 to $110 mark. But, just my predictions!!!
    Funny thing is, even though Poly was "overpriced" in 2016, it still would have been cheaper to buy it in 2016 than now because DVC as a whole has gotten so much more expensive. It's a bit crazy, lol.

    We may not see RIV come down if everything else keeps going up.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Funny thing is, even though Poly was "overpriced" in 2016, it still would have been cheaper to buy it in 2016 than now because DVC as a whole has gotten so much more expensive. It's a bit crazy, lol.

    We may not see RIV come down if everything else keeps going up.
    RIV is a whole different product. That restriction is a big one. Someone buying Poly today has the choice to stay at 14 resorts. Someone buying RIV gets one.

    That will limit demand and less demand will mean sellers forced to lower price or not sell.
     

    zavandor

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 22, 2011
    There are too few contracts for sale in the resale market. An existing owner looking to add on has points they can use at all resorts so they're not impacted much by the resale restrictions, they're buying those points to stay at Riviera.
    For this reason I think at the moment the restrictions have had little to no effect on the very few sales we've seen.
    The real impact will be felt in a few years when more people will start to sell and Riviera contracts will have to entice new owners that will have to give up completely the chance to stay at other resorts. Those will be the people who might decide that Poly or SSR might serve them better with their access to 14 resorts for at least 15 more years.
    At the moment, for someone looking to use the points at Riviera only, a $40-50 pp discount looks good enough.
     

    Hjs33

    Mouseketeer
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Feb 23, 2019
    It’s all about supply and demand. Right now there are so few contracts available that they are being bought by the highest bidders and they can get $130-150. But in 2-3 years there will be dozens of contracts available and the market will find a much lower price. Poly is going through this now as there are a lot of contracts hitting the market and pushing the price down.

    It also looks like Riviera is going to take 4-5 years to sell out at its current rate of sales. Which means when the market gets flooded with new contracts in a few years Disney will still not be ROFR those contracts because they will still be actively selling Riviera. So although I think Riviera resale should be priced around a Saratoga Springs contract, I also think there could be a window where it could trade decently below Saratoga until the resort gets completely sold out.
     

    DVC BLT

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 13, 2011
    It also looks like Riviera is going to take 4-5 years to sell out at its current rate of sales. Which means when the market gets flooded with new contracts in a few years Disney will still not be ROFR those contracts because they will still be actively selling Riviera. So although I think Riviera resale should be priced around a Saratoga Springs contract, I also think there could be a window where it could trade decently below Saratoga until the resort gets completely sold out.
    Agreed. Ultimately, it will probably settle below SS given you are restricted to one resort, which really is a game changer. Even if the resort is really nice and is kept nice due to the high due level, being restricted offsets all of that. I would guess Disney is going to be buying up alot of these and selling them direct as the skyliner settles in and demand for an EP/HS resort skyrockets as BWV and BCV creep ever closer to 2042.
     

    jwinky

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Apr 2, 2006
    There's a 100 pt RIV resale contract for $135 at Fidelity. How low can it go? This is definitely lowering my expectation to buy direct RIV if resale is going this low.
     

    TexasChick123

    Always Dreaming of Our Next Vacation
    Joined
    Feb 19, 2017
    There's a 100 pt RIV resale contract for $135 at Fidelity. How low can it go? This is definitely lowering my expectation to buy direct RIV if resale is going this low.
    I want to know if it’s still active. Who’s going to call and ask. Not it!
     

    Wakey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 22, 2015
    I agree with Sandi, maybe $100 a contract. However, even I could be tempted at $100 and I am not much of a fan of the resort, but I haven’t stopped there, just visited. But I’m thinking if even I’d be tempted at $100, then people who love RIV would snap it up at $100. So I’m thinking maybe $120 ish. What I also think will hit RIV is that currently it’s the only new resort on sale (I know some Copper Creek points seem to have come out the woodwork) but in about 18 months we will have Reflections. I know RLL is an MK resort but from the artwork it looks like it ‘could’ be something special. Resale buyers of RIV will be comparing that with its restrictions to the other new boy in town, with no restrictions and all direct perks, and resale RIV will no longer be as attractive for someone wanting a newer resort and not fussed if it’s MK or Epcot. Which will drive them to buy RLL instead, which of course is the exact intention of the restrictions.
    But I’m still going with around $110-120.
     

    npatellye

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Dec 30, 2019
    I know RLL is an MK resort but from the artwork it looks like it ‘could’ be something special. Resale buyers of RIV will be comparing that with its restrictions to the other new boy in town, with no restrictions and all direct perks, and resale RIV will no longer be as attractive for someone wanting a newer resort and not fussed if it’s MK or Epcot. Which will drive them to buy RLL instead, which of course is the exact intention of the restrictions.
    Do we know that RLL will have no restrictions? Unless they’ve announced that, I don’t think any of us should assume that restrictions are going away. It seems as if the end game is to stifle the resale market as much as possible and that resale restrictions on all new resorts will be standard from now on...barring any massive decline in sales for Riviera.
     

    Wakey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 22, 2015
    Do we know that RLL will have no restrictions? Unless they’ve announced that, I don’t think any of us should assume that restrictions are going away. It seems as if the end game is to stifle the resale market as much as possible and that resale restrictions on all new resorts will be standard from now on...barring any massive decline in sales for Riviera.
    No it will have restrictions currently. Sorry if not clear- I meant a potential RESALE buyer of RIV will now have another brand new resort- RLL, which will not have restrictions impacting their own usage if they buy direct.
    So, imagine RIV was 120 resale and I was tempted, I want a brand new resort with nearly 50 years. But RLL comes online at 180 say, no restrictions for me if I buy direct. I’m now thinking RIV is less attractive as I’m tempted to spend more and get RLL.
     

    npatellye

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Dec 30, 2019
    No I didn’t say that, it will have restrictions currently.
    I know RLL is an MK resort but from the artwork it looks like it ‘could’ be something special. Resale buyers of RIV will be comparing that with its restrictions to the other new boy in town, with no restrictions and all direct perks, and resale RIV will no longer be as attractive for someone wanting a newer resort and not fussed if it’s MK or Epcot.
    Perhaps I read this part about no restrictions for the new boy in town incorrectly. It’s early here and I haven’t had coffee yet.
     

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