New Restrictions Announced on Resales: Effective Jan 19

[Wakey]

I got on Chat with Disney today and they stated:

Members who purchase resale contracts for any of the existing 14 resorts will not be able to stay at future resorts, including Disney's Riviera Resort and Reflections - A Disney Lakeside Lodge.Additionally, once sales of Disney's Riviera Resort begin, Members who purchase resale contracts at Disney's Riviera Resort will only be able to stay at Disney's Riviera Resort.
This process will also apply to any locations built in the future.



So it sounds like they will be restricting to just home resort on any new DVC properties for resale. Some forums I was reading thought they would allow the new resorts in resale to be booked for new resorts, but it looks like this isn't the case.

Yes this was always going to be the case. They want to make the resale points so unattractive that it is low enough for them to always ROFR. Eventually having total control over the resale market. Allowing resale to book at Reflections etc will only cause them another headache and render the whole process pretty pointless.

They worked out, probably correctly, that a tanked resale value on new properties will not impact them like losing out on resale value, and also more direct points sold instead of people going for resale.

Heck, it may even allow them to build an extra DVC every 4 years, and that is seriously profitable.

 

[Jack_Sparrow_NJ]

If Riviera sales lag I wouldn't be surprised to see a new rule that Riviera re-sales would be good at all resorts. Only time will tell.

 

[Mikey15]

I've been hanging out here and researching because I thought I'd like to buy DVC in a few years when it's financially feasible for me. This two tier system is going to make it "not worth it" for me to bother vs. just renting points from existing owners.

Why buy resale DVC1, put the capital upfront, and have to rent points anyway if I ever wanted to stay at a DVC2 resort instead of a DVC1? If it ballpark costs me $10-11/point more to rent vs. own ($17-18 rental vs. ~$7 annual fee), and a Poly resale point is ~$150, that's too long of a payback period for my taste as it is (when we don't know how future changes will gut future resale). Paying ~$220/point for Poly direct to have the flexibility to maybe stay at Riviera or Reflections some day? Waaay too high a premium to do that.

GL owners, but this is scaring me off as a potential buyer.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

If Riviera sales lag I wouldn't be surprised to see a new rule that Riviera re-sales would be good at all resorts. Only time will tell.

The problem is going to be that new purchasers are going to be naive to the entire process.

Disney has never explained resale during a presentation, and short of reading the POS in advance, nobody that buys is going to "get it."

 

[bobbiwoz]

So it doesn't say what rights a resale buyer of Riviera will have?

Correct....I hope they have full rights.

 

[dwight16]

i am sure the legal language is pretty cut and dry but could this be challenged by a lawsuit? i am sure we have some pretty good dvc owners that are lawyers.....i am sure disney would love the press if being sued by its members.

 

[CarolynFH]

An owner who can’t trade out equals another owner who can’t trade in because the points aren’t being exchanged to make that happen.

BCV is midlife resort, more or less halfway through its 50 yr term. What percentage of owners would you expect are resale owners? I read somewhere that the average owner of DVC owns for 9 years.

BCV hasn’t sold new in going on 3x that long. (I don’t mean a few thousand points a month that are statistical roundings.)

So. 60% resale owners would be a conservative estimate?

Under this rule change, if 60% of owners are resale owners at Riviera in 25 years, than only 40% of owners could trade out, opening space for trades into the resort. 60% of the resort would be “landlocked” by owners with no mobility.

Trades work both ways.

Ultimately, there is harm here for everyone, not just resale buyers.

I hope this isn’t true because if so, it’s extremely short-sighted.

I agree that it would be short sighted to restrict Riviera resales to Riviera only. Obviously I can’t predict what Disney is going to do but I suspect that Riviera will be the first “DVC II” resort and that resales there will be allowed to trade into Reflections and the other DVC II resorts to come, so that owners at those resorts can trade into Riviera.

And really, if Riviera is as attractive as it can be (high end appliances and finishes and space for five in studios like VGF, rooftop restaurant, gondola transportation to two parks), why would owners there want to stay at old, outdated resorts like BWV with its plain white fridge?

 

[bwvBound]

And really, if Riviera is as attractive as it can be (high end appliances and finishes and space for five in studios like VGF, rooftop restaurant, gondola transportation to two parks), why would owners there want to stay at old, outdated resorts like BWV with its plain white fridge?

Umm, (in jest): location, location, location?

 

[emilymad]

I agree that it would be short sighted to restrict Riviera resales to Riviera only. Obviously I can’t predict what Disney is going to do but I suspect that Riviera will be the first “DVC II” resort and that resales there will be allowed to trade into Reflections and the other DVC II resorts to come, so that owners at those resorts can trade into Riviera.

And really, if Riviera is as attractive as it can be (high end appliances and finishes and space for five in studios like VGF, rooftop restaurant, gondola transportation to two parks), why would owners there want to stay at old, outdated resorts like BWV with its plain white fridge?

This is very true and I can see the rehabs of the "DVC I" resorts to continue to be bland just to increase the attractiveness of "DVC II". If they do allow Riviera resales to use all future properties then you can make a case to buy resale contract of Riviera eventually.

 

[Unit3875]

I am curious why Disney didnt just go ahead and limit ALL resort resales to home resort bookings.
Obviously they can do anything the want with the new resorts that have not opened yet.

Is it possible (hopefully) that the language of the existing deeds for the "legacy 14" resorts precludes them from doing so?

 

[Matty B13]

I am curious why Disney didnt just go ahead and limit ALL resort resales to home resort bookings.
Obviously they can do anything the want with the new resorts that have not opened yet.

Is it possible (hopefully) that the language of the existing contracts for the "legacy 14" resorts precludes them from doing so?

If they could have....... they would have.

 

[glamdring269]

It's really too bad. I can see how they might think they're losing money due to the popularity of the DVC resale market. But on the other hand, there is inherent goodwill built into the system that other timeshare companies simply don't have. This doesn't even feel like a time share in the traditional sense, or at least it didn't until recently. I'm not sure how much value that goodwill represents but have to think that a number of people who maybe a week ago would have spoken very highly of DVC to friends and family might do the complete opposite at this point.

 

[Granny]

The DVC Member website now has the following announcement:

Update to Disney Vacation Club Resort Access for Contracts Not Purchased Directly from Disney

​

Effective January 19, 2019, only Members who purchase directly from Disney will be able to use their Vacation Points at the 14 existing Disney Vacation Club Resorts or future Resorts—such as Disney’s Riviera Resort or Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. Resale contracts purchased for the existing 14 Disney Vacation Club Resorts will only be able to exchange Points into those 14 Resorts.

This change does not apply to contracts purchased prior to January 19, 2019. Contracts gifted to family members will continue to have the same Resort access as before the ownership transfer.

The eligibility rules for Membership Extras and RCI access remain unchanged.

The Buena Vista Trading Company Disclosure Guide has been amended accordingly.
​

So there is no mention of what kind of restrictions there will be on Riviera resales at this point. I guess that makes sense...no need to say anything about Riviera resales until they actually start selling Riviera.

 

[hakepb]

If Riviera sales lag I wouldn't be surprised to see a new rule that Riviera re-sales would be good at all resorts. Only time will tell.

If Rivera sales lag for this change ... they will finally sell more Aulani points without that restriction.

 

[kniquy]

They worked out, probably correctly, that a tanked resale value on new properties will not impact them like losing out on resale value, and also more direct points sold instead of people going for resale.

You could get the population of people who are willing to buy Rivera at a steal - say $100 per point vs $220 per point direct and know that they are locked into staying there only, but they have also saved 50% vs buying direct. I think there might still be a weak resale market but if people can buy at a steal why not. Maybe they can buy it cheap and then can rent and still make out when the rental market draws $20 per point.

I think this change is bad for those uneducated people buying Rivera -- I see them selling ok but if word can get out that your Rivera resale will be worth significantly less then it might slow their sales enough that they reconsider their restrictions.

In my short time of owning (bought resale at end of 2015) it has made me very thankful that i bought in when i did (made it in before the 2016 restrictions). We have almost broken even and we have many more years of ownership planned. We want to buy a Poly contract in a year or so and despite the restrictions we will still choose resale simple for the savings and simply because we are buying poly to stay at poly. If Rivera is that outstanding then there will still be a market for those who want to buy where they want to stay and they will be ok with buying resale to only stay at Rivera -- we will all just have to sit back and watch it unfold.

So typically how long after a resort goes on sale before we see the first resale? I'm guessing 6 months or so.

 

[aoconnor]

You could get the population of people who are willing to buy Rivera at a steal - say $100 per point vs $220 per point direct and know that they are locked into staying there only, but they have also saved 50% vs buying direct. I think there might still be a weak resale market but if people can buy at a steal why not. Maybe they can buy it cheap and then can rent and still make out when the rental market draws $20 per point.

At $100 (and I think it will end up being even less) it's likely Disney would just buy it in ROFR and re-sell it for $200+, or keep it and rent the rooms themselves. They've set it up so the resale value will be chronically low and extremely profitable for them.

 

[RescueRanger]

I agree that it would be short sighted to restrict Riviera resales to Riviera only. Obviously I can’t predict what Disney is going to do but I suspect that Riviera will be the first “DVC II” resort and that resales there will be allowed to trade into Reflections and the other DVC II resorts to come, so that owners at those resorts can trade into Riviera.

And really, if Riviera is as attractive as it can be (high end appliances and finishes and space for five in studios like VGF, rooftop restaurant, gondola transportation to two parks), why would owners there want to stay at old, outdated resorts like BWV with its plain white fridge?

I guess you missed this from a previous poster who did a chat with a Disney CM:
"I got on Chat with Disney today and they stated:

Members who purchase resale contracts for any of the existing 14 resorts will not be able to stay at future resorts, including Disney's Riviera Resort and Reflections - A Disney Lakeside Lodge.Additionally, once sales of Disney's Riviera Resort begin, Members who purchase resale contracts at Disney's Riviera Resort will only be able to stay at Disney's Riviera Resort.
This process will also apply to any locations built in the future."

Future resort resales will be restricted to their home resort only.

 

[Matty B13]

If Rivera sales lag for this change ... they will finally sell more Aulani points without that restriction.

Would you buy Aulani with this new way that they are treating DVC owners?????

 

[aoconnor]

"The Buena Vista Trading Company Disclosure Guide has been amended accordingly."

Anxiously awaiting someone's in-depth analysis of these changes. Will be interesting to see how this new second exchange will work (and how much availability there will be for us "DVC I" owners)

 

[CarolynFH]

I guess you missed this from a previous poster who did a chat with a Disney CM:
"I got on Chat with Disney today and they stated:

Members who purchase resale contracts for any of the existing 14 resorts will not be able to stay at future resorts, including Disney's Riviera Resort and Reflections - A Disney Lakeside Lodge.Additionally, once sales of Disney's Riviera Resort begin, Members who purchase resale contracts at Disney's Riviera Resort will only be able to stay at Disney's Riviera Resort.
This process will also apply to any locations built in the future."

Future resort resales will be restricted to their home resort only.

I did see that, but that wording is not in today's official announcement. I don't think today's announcement even mentions Riviera owners whether direct or resale. So it's quite possible (I'm not saying definite, but quite possible) that Riviera resales will be able to stay in Riviera and Reflections and any new resorts to come after that even though they can't stay in DVC I resorts.

Remember, those of us who are long-time owners bought in when there weren't many options for trading out. The original OKW owners could stay at OKW, period, then HHI and VB opened, then BWV opened. When we bought BWV, OKW was the only other WDW DVC resort, although we could use our points for WDW hotels (my dream was one day to stay at GF!). And we didn't expect to be able to trade into so many different places at WDW! The options for trading into different DVC resorts slowly grew. The same thing could happen with a DVC II - Riviera's the first one, then Reflections, then there's another. As @ziravan pointed out, if resale owners can't trade out, fewer owners of other DVC II resorts (even direct buyers) can trade in, and I don't think that DVD wants that to happen.

But, who knows, maybe they won't care because they'll still sell points telling people they can trade at 7 months! We'll have to wait and see.