NEW Rejected Offers Thread

[Disneydad14]

Resort: BLT
Points: 160
List: 123
Offer: 123

Broker responded that they have multiple offers on this contract and that it would be selling over the list price. Anyone else have that happen to them? First for me. I passed.

I got it for 120 put a little more points . I am at day 19 of ROFR now , hoping to close it up soon.

 

[Disneydad14]

Resort CCV
Contract size: 100 points
Has 51 points left in 2025
Asking: 155
Offer: 110

Seller countered with 150 and I pay all of 2025 dues for full 100 points.

I think you made a fair starting offer . Out of curiosity if they said 120
What would you have said ?

 

[fflmaster]

I think you made a fair starting offer . Out of curiosity if they said 120
What would you have said ?

I probably would have said no.

I did end up buying a triple loaded 155 point contract for 133.5. Willing to pay more because of the extra 310 points I could rent out from 2023 and 2024

 

[Disneydad14]

I’m not sure how easy it is to rent RIV at $20/point or higher, but if you can do that (and I assume you can do better with spec renting standard view rooms), selling for $100 is somewhat like selling a bond with higher than 10% coupon — though there is slightly more effort required to rent the points out… curious to see how the rental market changes with fewer international travelers coming to WDW (and possible DVC crackdown on renting, if the hotel occupancy rates decline).

I won’t buy RIV but if I owned it direct, I probably wouldn’t want to sell under $130 (as long as I could rent it) and if I was interested in staying there regularly) I still wouldn’t buy it resale for more than $90… so as long as the rental market holds up you could just see a very low number of RIV resale transactions.

But the bond gives you the principle back no? Whereas here the underlying asset is deteriorating year after year. I think once there’s 2-3 newer resorts at WDW riveria will be in big trouble . I don’t understand how people are buying this direct or resale

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

But the bond gives you the principle back no? Whereas here the underlying asset is deteriorating year after year. I think once there’s 2-3 newer resorts at WDW riveria will be in big trouble . I don’t understand how people are buying this direct or resale

Not sure this is the answer you’re looking for but I think the simplest one is that value is subjective and nuanced. And it might just be that we love the resort and we can afford to buy it? This board makes us all go crazy for even a dollar of savings and I’m not here to knock it but we don’t always need to get absolutely the best deal and perceived value to have made a great choice for ourselves and families. The financial and emotional math works for us; it doesn’t have to be deeper or more analytical than that.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

But the bond gives you the principle back no? Whereas here the underlying asset is deteriorating year after year. I think once there’s 2-3 newer resorts at WDW riveria will be in big trouble . I don’t understand how people are buying this direct or resale

yes, the bond gives you principle back but that’s why I said 10% coupon instead of 12% coupon if you purchase at $100 (I’m actually not sure what the RIV dues are but assumed it was under $9 as a new tower).

 

[Disneydad14]

Not sure this is the answer you’re looking for but I think the simplest one is that value is subjective and nuanced. And it might just be that we love the resort and we can afford to buy it? This board makes us all go crazy for even a dollar of savings and I’m not here to knock it but we don’t always need to get absolutely the best deal and perceived value to have made a great choice for ourselves and families. The financial and emotional math works for us; it doesn’t have to be deeper or more analytical than that.

I understand and hope you enjoy it . I’m just so against the resale restrictions because I think it has the possibility to ruin this great product all together. I think Disney was very short sighted doing it .

 

[jolynne28]

I understand and hope you enjoy it . I’m just so against the resale restrictions because I think it has the possibility to ruin this great product all together. I think Disney was very short sighted doing it .

While I hate the restrictions too, I do think Disney might implement a point washing system somewhere along the way as more restricted resorts come online and O14 go off. They may want to push more people to buy direct, but there will always be a resale market b/c circumstances/life change. The "club" aspect of what they are selling is nice, and not something they will want to devalue. We are just at the forefront of restrictions, a lot can change. And I'm saying this as someone who just sent a RIV contract off to ROFR. We aren't putting all our eggs in this basket, but we don't mind that we can only use those points there. We have other points to enjoy the other resorts, and will add on probably every year until we feel like we are happy with our portfolio. One restricted contract isn't a negative for us right now.

 

[Brian Noble]

I don’t understand how people are buying this direct or resale

Because I wanted it and could afford it.

In dollars and cents terms, it's a dumb idea. I've been staying in DVC villas using RCI/Interval exchanges for close to two decades now for a net cost less than an owner pays in Dues. I am paying for that with reduced flexibility and resort choice. But, I'm now in a very different financial situation. The kids are out of college and successfully launched. And I had the discretionary cash to change the nature of my DVC stays. So I did.

I’m just so against the resale restrictions because I think it has the possibility to ruin this great product

They don't make any difference at all to a direct buyer until it comes time to sell. For me, that also made no difference. I assume salvage value is zero, so if and when I sell it, any proceeds are found money. I've been saying this a long time, but if one relies on resale value over a short-to-medium time horizon to justify a DVC purchase, that is not IMO a wise purchase. Too many things can go wrong, and they are likely to go wrong precisely when you need them to go right. (See: The Great Recession.)

 

[Brian Noble]

I do think Disney might implement a point washing system [...]. The "club" aspect of what they are selling is nice, and not something they will want to devalue

They might do the former. And, the club aspect is nice. It's also fully available to anyone who buys direct. If they do implement a way to bring resale points back into the club it will not be cheap. I suspect it will look more like Diamon/Hilton or Marriott's Weeks model than Marriott's Points model.

Diamond/Hilton resale points revert to their underlying resort/collection, much as DVC's restricted resorts do. You can bring resale points back into the club, but doing so requires you to buy new developer points on a 1-to-1 basis. Likewise, Marriott Weeks owners who owned (retail or resale) prior to a cutoff date could enroll any individual week for points in a given year. Weeks owners who bought resale after the cutoff date can "re-qualify" the week, but only if they buy some new developer points.

Marriott Points, on the other hand, are "pure" trust points and have no underlying resort tie. So, on resale they are charged an "education fee" that essentially raises the cost of a resale point from 20% of developer cost to about 40%. Still a pretty good deal. DVC is unlikely to go that low, because the rental value is higher. And, even DVC's "trust" points are tied to some underlying resort (so far, only CFW) so I think it's more straightforward to go with the "buy to requalify" model.

 

[jolynne28]

Diamond/Hilton resale points revert to their underlying resort/collection, much as DVC's restricted resorts do. You can bring resale points back into the club, but doing so requires you to buy new developer points on a 1-to-1 basis.

And I don't hate this idea, assuming I'm understanding it. I just bought 200 RIV resale, so down the line if they offer something like this, you're saying if I buy 200 RIV direct, my 200 resale will get lumped in as direct at that point? Or is there an additional fee on top of the 200 pt purchase to do that?

 

[Disneydad14]

While I hate the restrictions too, I do think Disney might implement a point washing system somewhere along the way as more restricted resorts come online and O14 go off. They may want to push more people to buy direct, but there will always be a resale market b/c circumstances/life change. The "club" aspect of what they are selling is nice, and not something they will want to devalue. We are just at the forefront of restrictions, a lot can change. And I'm saying this as someone who just sent a RIV contract off to ROFR. We aren't putting all our eggs in this basket, but we don't mind that we can only use those points there. We have other points to enjoy the other resorts, and will add on probably every year until we feel like we are happy with our portfolio. One restricted contract isn't a negative for us right now.

Good luck on the offer , hope you get it .

I am 40 and have a 4 year old . The main reason I bought this is because I want to pass it down to my daughter and potentially more children we have. At the same time I don’t want to potentially burden them with a timeshare they can’t get rid of . The resale market has always been what differentiated Disney from any other timeshare. My hope is that these resale restrictions will be restricted to “premium “ resorts like riveria and they might leave the more generic ones like lakeshore lodge alone but I think that’s false hope at this point and doesn’t seem likely

What’s the point washing system ?

 

[Brian Noble]

And I don't hate this idea, assuming I'm understanding it. I just bought 200 RIV resale, so down the line if they offer something like this, you're saying if I buy 200 RIV direct, my 200 resale will get lumped in as direct at that point? Or is there an additional fee on top of the 200 pt purchase to do that?

That's what Diamond does. Who knows what DVC will do, if anything?

I am not counting on them doing anything, personally.

 

[byurick]

That's what Diamond does. Who knows what DVC will do, if anything?

I am not counting on them doing anything, personally.

The mouse will always get his pound of flesh, betting that if they ever did do it you'd be better off just buying direct the first time around.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Good luck on the offer , hope you get it .

I am 40 and have a 4 year old . The main reason I bought this is because I want to pass it down to my daughter and potentially more children we have. At the same time I don’t want to potentially burden them with a timeshare they can’t get rid of . The resale market has always been what differentiated Disney from any other timeshare. My hope is that these resale restrictions will be restricted to “premium “ resorts like riveria and they might leave the more generic ones like lakeshore lodge alone but I think that’s false hope at this point and doesn’t seem likely

What’s the point washing system ?

0% chance IMO that they don’t do resale restrictions on new associations. They already have the restrictions on the “cabins”….

 

[WinterSolider]

They don't make any difference at all to a direct buyer until it comes time to sell.

They make a difference to direct buyers by altering the supply and demand dynamics for bookings.

A restricted resort is likely to have a more competitive home resort booking window because all the resale owners can *only* book that resort and will not be keeping their powder dry to book something else at 7 months.

So all the Riviera Resale people cram into Riviera at 11 months, making it harder for Riviera Direct people to book their own resort than if those Riviera Resale people had other options.

 

[WinterSolider]

0% chance IMO that they don’t do resale restrictions on new associations. They already have the restrictions on the “cabins”….

The thing that I can't figure out is VGF2 and Poly Tower.

They obviously like resale restrictions so why wouldn't they have done Poly using the Copper Creek / Boulder Ridge model rather than the Jambo / Kidani model so they could attach restrictions to the new Tower association?

 

[jolynne28]

Good luck on the offer , hope you get it .

I am 40 and have a 4 year old . The main reason I bought this is because I want to pass it down to my daughter and potentially more children we have. At the same time I don’t want to potentially burden them with a timeshare they can’t get rid of . The resale market has always been what differentiated Disney from any other timeshare. My hope is that these resale restrictions will be restricted to “premium “ resorts like riveria and they might leave the more generic ones like lakeshore lodge alone but I think that’s false hope at this point and doesn’t seem likely

What’s the point washing system ?

We have different mindsets, we are mid 40's with 3 kids and are buying for us, we're not doing it to have something to hand down to them. It wouldn't be equitable unless we bought 3 identical contracts, and we already own at 3 different resorts. We will enjoy it with them for as long as we can, then hopefully enjoy it together and maybe even with grandkids down the road. But at any point if we decide we want to move on from DVC we will sell. RIV has 44 years left, which gives us a long time to make those decisions while enjoying it in the process. DVC isn't an investment for us, it's a way to partially prepay for vacations and stay in nicer accommodations at a more reasonable cost than paying Disney's discounted rack rates.

Also, I'm not sure RIV will be considering "premium" compared to Lakeshore Lodge or any other new resort, and I do believe restrictions will be implemented for all future resorts. RIV having two park skyliner access will always make it a desired location, among other things, for many people. Just like walking to MK from BLT is a massive selling point for many others, or Stormalong Bay at BCV. Each resort offers different things, once you start trying them all out I think you'll be surprised how your views shift/evolve.

 

[Brian Noble]

They make a difference to direct buyers by altering the supply and demand dynamics for bookings.

I don't think this matters.

For your home resort, it's always been an issue. Ask the BWV or BCV owners, for example. For non-home resorts, it is likely to be a wash.

will not be keeping their powder dry to book something else at 7 months

Why would anyone do this given the booking tool allows modifications? I don't think this is a thing. It is certainly not a thing *I* do. It is much more sensible to book a home resort reservation at 11, and try to modify it at 7.

That said, the obvious hedge against this is a fixed week, and that's why I bought one. Even so, I thnk the "resale owners make booking harder" is a boogeyman.

 

[AstroBlasters]

The thing that I can't figure out is VGF2 and Poly Tower.

They obviously like resale restrictions so why wouldn't they have done Poly using the Copper Creek / Boulder Ridge model rather than the Jambo / Kidani model so they could attach restrictions to the new Tower association?

Easier to sell and you don’t have the additional costs of a new associations.

I think I read somewhere that the issue with CCV is that there wouldn’t have been enough time on the contract to meet FL timeshare requirements for min length of deed if they combined with BR.