New policy: No young kids at Victoria & Albert's

[nicolem05]

duplicate

 

[nicolem05]

duplicate

 

[bicker]

It was not that way. There was no children's menu, and children had to pay the same price as adults, but there was no specific age restriction.

I wonder if that could have been the basis for this change: That folks were complaining that they had to pay so much money for children who generally wouldn't get that much value out of the meal. Disney will probably get a lot fewer complaints by banning children from the restaurant.

 

[DreaminDisney]

It was not that way. There was no children's menu, and children had to pay the same price as adults, but there was no specific age restriction.

aha. I've never been there so I guess I just assumed it was. I think it's nice to have the option to dine where it is adult only.

 

[WillCAD]

First off this is my first WDW trip I was a kid (WDL veterans)I guess I will be pretty shocked when we get there because I can't imagine people with small children eating at 9:30pm-10pm! (but I am on the west coast so I imagine we might push it ahead to a middle ground)

Besides all that I would have zero issue with there being a cut off time for kids at upscale restaurants makes sense to me.. but I also would have a problem with the NO kids at some of these great places.. I do have probably the most well behaved 6 year old on the planet (and he always has been) who is a very adventurous and loves good cuisine I would hate to see him banned from a bunch of signature restaurants because he is lumped in a group ill behaved children because of his age... also just who should I leave my kids with while I experience a restaurant I have been waiting for years to try?? And don't tell me some stranger from a sitting service sorry not going to happen.. so I take him everywhere with me.. I always have. My husband and I chose not to have children for many years and we enjoy having him with us. We also have common sense and dine early so he gets to bed early (7pm like clockwork) and wouldn't dream of letting our children run around a restaurant or be disruptive. So I would have to say from my shoes a cut off time would be more than acceptable as a compromise.

Assuming that you're not exaggerating just a smidge when you say that your 6yo is the most well-behaved on the planet, even you must admit that being the best-behaved 6yo on the planet makes him unique - the only 6yo in the whole world who behaves that well. This, of course, leads to the inescapable conclusion that ALL other 6yo kids behave worse than yours, so "lumping" him in with every other 6yo in the world is somewhat understandable. It is, after all, a rare 6yo who can appreciate the subtle differences between fine dining and mac-n-cheese.

I appreciate that you are a good and attentive parent who makes sure your kid behaves in public. And I appreciate the perspective from your shoes, but from my shoes a few adults-only restaurants is a pretty good thing, not only for childless people, but also for those parents whose parenting style is not the same as yours because they CHOOSE not to take their 6yo with them everywhere they go, as you do.

If you CHOOSE not to use the available sitting services to watch your 6yo while you go to an adults-only venue (be it a restaurant or club or bar), that's your choice, and I respect it; it means that you are extremely cautious with your kid's well-being and safety. But you have to live with the consequenses of that choice, as everyone must live with the consequenses of their choices.

Just remember - the restaurant is not banning YOU. It's banning children under 10. You are choosing, of your own free will, not to go to restaurants where you cannot bring your under-10 child with you. YOU could still go, you'd simply have to make some arrangements for your child while you're in the restaurant. For instance:

There are 4 Pirate Cruises limited to children 4-10 years of age. No younger, and no older. No adults.
Pirate Cruise info

There are activity centers at 10 resorts limited to kids 4-12 years of age.
Kid's Activity Centers

The following activities at Grand Floridian are also limited to kids 4-10:

*Grand Adventured in Cooking
*Wonderland Tea Party

A cutoff time for kids at a restaurant, however, would be an awkward compromise from several perspectives.

First, if the policy is "no children under 10 in the restaurant after 9pm", what happens to families who are seated at 8:30? Will they be kicked out before they finish their meal? Probably not, which means that adults who are seated at 9:15 may still have to deal with those kids.

Second, it is well known here on the DIS how difficult it is to get ADRs at many of the WDW signature restaurants. What if the only ADR I can get at V&A is before the cutoff time? Then I would not be able to have the adults-only experience that I want, because the adults-only experience would only exist for a half of the restaurant's operating hours. I don't come from the west coast, I'm from the east coast, and I like to eat dinner before 7pm, not after 9.

Better that there is a simple, consistent, understandable blanket policy, for the restaurant's entire operating day.

 

[_queenie_]

When my DD had just turned nine and we were on a RR cruise, we were turned away from one of their restaurants because somewhre they found out her age. She found it apalling that she wasn't allowed in, as she's always been very well behaved and into good food (completely stopped ordering off the kid's menu when she was six, now we only do for my DD3 once in a blue moon, she often shares off of my plate if we can't get her a little appetizer). If they were going to somehow put a "kid ban" on some signature restaurants, I do think that it would be best to do late at night. I'm pretty sure that's what they do at the Reefs in Bermuda. We always eat at 5:30, 6:00 so that wouldn't be an issue for us. As long as they still keep lounges though (at least ones with food, sometimes we like to get a glass of wine while they share a snack or something) because my kids are nightowls!

 

[Pixiedust34]

Perhaps I shouldn't comment because V&A is out of our price range and we've never been, but I am glad to see this policy. If I were to eat there, I would want it to be a special adult evening.

I also wouldn't mind seeing the "over age 10" rule being in place at other signature restaurants.

 

[3DisneyKids]

First off this is my first WDW trip I was a kid (WDL veterans)I guess I will be pretty shocked when we get there because I can't imagine people with small children eating at 9:30pm-10pm! (but I am on the west coast so I imagine we might push it ahead to a middle ground)

Besides all that I would have zero issue with there being a cut off time for kids at upscale restaurants makes sense to me.. but I also would have a problem with the NO kids at some of these great places.. I do have probably the most well behaved 6 year old on the planet (and he always has been) who is a very adventurous and loves good cuisine I would hate to see him banned from a bunch of signature restaurants because he is lumped in a group ill behaved children because of his age... also just who should I leave my kids with while I experience a restaurant I have been waiting for years to try?? And don't tell me some stranger from a sitting service sorry not going to happen.. so I take him everywhere with me.. I always have. My husband and I chose not to have children for many years and we enjoy having him with us. We also have common sense and dine early so he gets to bed early (7pm like clockwork) and wouldn't dream of letting our children run around a restaurant or be disruptive. So I would have to say from my shoes a cut off time would be more than acceptable as a compromise.

This is your choice (not to leave your child with a sitting service), and one that I agree with. We wouldn't consider leaving our kids with a stranger while on vacation either. However, the issue here goes beyond a particular child's behavior and/or palette. Sometimes it is just nice NOT to have other people's kids around. Period.

I have never put my kids in day care and I love spending time with them. And we take them out all the time. They are incredibly well behaved in public. We certainly don't bring a nanny on vacation with us so that we can have some adult time (we always consider that bizarre anyway as it is a FAMILY vacation and that is sacred family time). So I totally get your wanting to be with your child and bring him where you go. That is wonderful and shows lots of hands-on parenting.

None of that takes away from the idea that it is absolutely FINE to have some adult-only venues.

 

[jlima]

The article in the Orlando newspaper quotes a F&B vice president who states V&A only had 2 - 3 parties with small children per month. I am absolutely in favor of this. Yes, WDW is for families, but WDW also markets their experience to their convention attendees and locals in Central Florida, and these customers are probably a large part of V&A's target audience.

Walt Disney World's swankiest restaurant bans kids

The Magic Kingdom's poshest restaurant says children younger than 10 are not welcome.

Scott Powers and Scott Joseph
Sentinel Staff Writers
January 5, 2008

Walt Disney World has banned young children from its swankiest restaurant, Victoria & Albert's in the Grand Floridian Resort & Spa.

The company that reinvented the family vacation has drawn the line against potentially loud, ill-mannered or whiny kids in its only restaurant with a five-diamond rating from AAA travel service. Children younger than 10 are no longer welcome.

"We want to be the restaurant that's available for that adult experience," said Victoria & Albert's general manager, Israel Perez.

The new policy, which took effect Tuesday, is a rarity in the restaurant business. Only a handful of top restaurants nationally, such as Jean-Georges in New York City, employ it. Victoria & Albert's might be the only eatery in Florida that bans children.

In Disney World's ongoing guest surveys, many diners have yearned for a more-adult dining atmosphere, said Rosemary Rose, Disney World's vice president for food, beverage and merchandise operations. The decision to impose a minimum age was not made rashly, she said.

"Because it is the only five-diamond restaurant in Central Florida, we are very careful with Victoria & Albert's," Rose said. "Combined with the research we've done with five-diamond restaurants outside Central Florida and the guest feedback we've gotten, . . . we stepped back and said it's time to take a look at this practice."

It's not as though many Disney families with young children are likely to lament the loss: Disney World has 97 other full-service restaurants. And Rose said no more than two or three families a month brought young children to Victoria & Albert's, which has the highest prices and the most intimate, sedate, elegant atmosphere at Disney World.

"I get it. I'm a parent myself," Rose said.

Virtually nothing about Victoria & Albert's, which opened in 1988, is designed to appeal to children. Men are required to wear jackets, and women must wear dresses or pantsuits. The crystal-and-linen dining room typically seats no more than 100 patrons. The hushed atmosphere features live harp music. The menu, which changes daily, offers programmed, seven-course dinners that can last as long as three hours. Prices start at $125 a person.

On Friday, Internet comments that streamed into the Orlando Sentinel after an online posting of Disney's new policy overwhelmingly supported a minimum age at the restaurant.

Not a first for Disney

It is not the first time Disney has banned children from establishments. Off and on, Disney has barred children from its Pleasure Island entertainment district and from individual nightclubs there, though children accompanied by an adult are currently allowed in most places at Pleasure Island. Disney also has the adults-only restaurant Palo on its two cruise ships.

Overt bans on children appear to be quite rare nationally, though many restaurants tacitly discourage young diners by turning away families with children or making them feel unwanted, said Clark Wolf, a New York-based restaurant consultant.

Disney, he said, probably has to disclose the policy upfront because the giant resort is a place of clearly stated rules.

He added, "I will say it makes it more worthwhile to put on a jacket," knowing the dinner to follow will be an adult experience.

'I'd rather kick out the parents'

Florida's other elite restaurants take different approaches to the problem of young children in fancy dining rooms. Salt: The Grill, a fine-dining restaurant in the Ritz-Carlton on Amelia Island, also has a AAA five-diamond rating -- but it offers a children's menu.

Norman Van Aken, owner of another top Ritz-Carlton restaurant, Norman's in Orlando, said banning children is not something he would consider. "I'd rather kick out the parents that can't control their children than kick out the kids," Van Aken said from Key West, where he is opening another restaurant.

Yet Disney's move might prove to be a marketing masterstroke, said California-based Disney observer David Koenig, author of Realityland, True-Life Adventures at Walt Disney World. Koenig said the ban on children sends the message that, among all of Disney's restaurants, Victoria & Albert's is different.

Even the comparably posh Club 33, a private, invitation-only club in Disneyland, allows young children, he said.

"Word will get out, and people will go, 'Oh, wow; I didn't realize it [Victoria & Albert's] was that special of a place,' " Koenig said.

Still, Disney's decision to set a minimum age for Victoria & Albert's is steeped with irony, said another longtime Disney observer, Mike Scopa, a New Hampshire-based co-host of the "WDW Today" Internet podcast. He noted that company founder Walt Disney developed his theme parks around his dream to create a place where parents and children could have fun together, without having to split up and pursue separate activities.

"Now we find that Disney has come full circle," he said.

 

[SpaceRangerEric]

I thought that was always the case, since I have never seen a child in VA. I'm glad. I now wish they would enforce the dress code and even make it stricter for signature dining at the resorts.

 

[WDWguru]

Yes, WDW is for families, but WDW also markets their experience to their convention attendees and locals in Central Florida, and these customers are probably a large part of V&A's target audience.

Not all families include children.

 

[Dabelsteen]

We've all been out to eat and seen that kid run around the table causing a ruckuss or running parent to parent, or maybe just the kid who can't (for whatever reason) stop crying/screaming. (I know its not every kid but you've seen this before) I have to say that given what I pay for a meal at V&A I would be livid if I had to endure those activities there. Its all about the mood.

On the other hand I never have seen that at V&A so the move probably amounts to very little real effect.

I also love the after 10pm idea. Anything less then that would probably not work well just from Disneys point of view.

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

Not all families include children.

THANK YOU!!! ​

We are a family of two.

And I think it's a great idea to provide some child free experiences for the WDW guest without children.

 

[Eeyore's Pal]

I think I am comfortable with this policy for V&A. I certainly appreciated the same policy for Palo's on the DCL Wonder. My kids are all over 10 now, and were always well behaved in restaurants. But I have experienced other people's children having meltdowns in restaurants. Not pretty.

I agree with the commentator in the article who said that this sends the message that V&A is special, it's different.

But I would not like to see this become a widespread policy at other WDW signature restaurants. It's one thing to set aside one restaurant (or maybe two), but WDW is born of Walt's vision of a family vacation resort. That core vision should never be set aside.

 

[_queenie_]

I really do feel that it's the parents fault for letting their kids run wild. A perfect example of that would be last year at FF, we sat next to these people with a son and daughter who were about 5 and a daughter who was about 10 or 11. They were loud, made a gigantic mess, and when they left none of the kids even had their shoes on, the mother was carrying them! Once they were gone, all our waiter was doing was carrying on about how well our children were behaved. I never once heard the other parents tell the kids to stop acting up. I do understand many of you for saying that kids can disrupt your meal, it's just not all kids. But even more than the kids, I feel it's the parents to blame. Maybe they should kick disruptive people out.

 

[TDC Nala]

I'm not even a family. I am usually at WDW with friends.

Sometimes, the friends bring their kids. Sometimes they don't.

I think personally the signature restaurants ought to stay the way they are. I don't think it's logical to extend the "dress code" beyond what it is now in a theme resort. I couldn't disagree with a proposed rule like "no kids under 10 after 9 PM" but I don't think it's necessary. Victoria and Alberts is not the same as the other signature restaurants. It's a totally adult-oriented experience.

I'd like a "no kids under 10 after 10 pm" rule at the two PI clubs that still permit children, too.

 

[nicolem05]

But I would not like to see this become a widespread policy at other WDW signature restaurants. It's one thing to set aside one restaurant (or maybe two),

This is all I was saying... And I assure you I didn't exaggerate my son's excellent behavior nor do I think he is the absolute exception I have seen many well behaved children. I was just saying that I would hate to see this continue to many restaurants. just because I have a child in my dining party doesn't mean we don't want good wine or fine dining..
Now I don't know if some were thinking this would turn into a huge debate with an uproar from those who have children. But obviously the consensus is a few places would be more than acceptable with families with and without children..
I can assure you as a family who chose to remain childless for many years we really aren't all that different.
So now I know next year when I do have a group coming to share sitting with trusted people my husband and I now know where we will go out for a child free dinner but still hope our fine restaurant choices are not dwindled down to far when we do have children with us.

 

[Tasha+Scott]

I honestly don't get the appeal of wanting to bring a young child to a place like V&A. I would never dream of taking my 2.5 year old there and she is actually pretty good when we eat out (most of the time). Despite the fact that I am one of those parents that would never let my kid run around tables and would carry her out of the restaurant if she started screaming, why would you really want to take a young child to a place that is so obviously geared toward adult dining? I just don't get it.

I guess I just don't see how making one upscale, adult-oriented restaurant kid-free is that big of a deal. It certainly won't ruin our next vacation.

 

[_queenie_]

Though having V&As an adult only restaurant is fine, I think with the other signature restaurants parents just truly need to know whether or not they can take their children there.

 

[yearbook50]

I'm truly upset about this. I first went to V&A really young and I was better behaved than some of the adults there. In fact, I always begged my parents for us to go back to the restaurant on our future Disney trips. I've always wanted to be able to give my child the same type of experience when they were around 7/8 as my parents did.