New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[LisaS]

jdg345:

I have a weeks worth of points for my travel time; my unfortunate problem with the new system is that I own at two resorts. Our Disney travel wants and needs changed so we had to buy more hence the second contract. I purchased the second contract without hesitation because the system was so easy and flexible and after researching ownership of two resorts, I felt that I could manage it. I have had many years of success in using the wait list system to avoid having to move mid week and getting the reservations we needed.

Can you use banking and borrowing to alternate resorts every other year? That would allow you to book your entire stay on your first call. We do this with our VWL and AKV contracts. We have enough points in each contract for a 6-night stay every other year so we alternate between the two. If one of your contracts is much larger than the other, then maybe you can stay at one resort for 2 years and the other every third year.

 

[Dean]

I was under the impression that while dues were higher than for the average timeshare, that was -- in part -- the cost of flexibility. Perhaps a better way to do this would be as you suggest, "We would like to make the following changes to reduce costs, otherwise we will need to raise dues by X." and have some sort of proxy/vote. Of course, like you said, this will only appease the majority and some will be left out and may be forced to vote with their feet.

I think dues are higher for a number of reasons including flexibility, on property issues, Disney standards, use of Disney approved contractors, and likely several others. Some are good and some are bad and in some ways it may depend on your personal situation as to how you see it. To me you have to consider the cost vs the benefit of everything involved. To compare to say Marriott's Grande Vista, likely the best comparison for a timeshare in Orlando, the fees are about 50% higher for a 2 BR for a week. GV is a resort with comparable set up, size and quality (in and out of units) to DVC and is probably most like SSR. Dues for a 2 BR are right around $825 and a 3 BR just over $1100 with both being lockoff's. A full week for comparison would be a little over 300 points on average (depending on the exact resort) but lets use 300 to make it easy. So around $1500 a year for a week. If you compare to other times or shorter stays it's still average out to around the $1500 per week total for the membership but might vary somewhat per person due to the usage patterns (S-F). Ultimately one is paying a sizable cost to stay on property which is a value each members needs to decide for themselves. From a flexibility standpoint one could get full weeks at other timeshares and only use part of the time and still come out far ahead in most instances. The Marriott option would also give you a ton of other options in usage and trading than does DVC. You'd have the II membership if you chose and also a potential lockoff fee. There are also minor change/cancellation fees. There are actually other comparisons that are more directly comparable to DVC from a system standpoint. Club Intrawest or Bluegreen come to mind, esp BG, but the resorts are not as comparable. Anyway, just for info and perspective. Owning DVC and others I see the value of both used correctly and the folly of both used incorrectly.

 

[maminnie]

unixadm:

Don't you think you may have had the same problem that I have described with these reservations of yours if you had not had the option of booking day by day?

Let's look at the 12/26/07 visit. With the new system you could have been shut out by those that arrive before Christmas rather then after like yourself.

And your visit this holiday period, you could possibly have been shut out for New Years Eve and other days of your stay by those that arrived 12/27, 12/28, 12/29 for a week.

This is the problem that I have been referencing on these boards with the new policy. Nobody enjoyed day by day but at least we all had a chance for the days of our vacation period. Now I have no idea what to expect. Will I get a reservation or won't I......who knows at this point. Before I knew if I did what I was advised to do, I would more then likely be successful. It is anyone's guess at this point.



maminne

 

[Dean]

The perception is that everyone is the same, but that's not the case.

Exactly, equality is an illusion to a degree. I'd agree it's more true with DVC than most timeshare though.

On a serious note, they mention 350,000 members in the Bio. That's a much larger figure than you an I discussed earlier in the thread. Marketing numbers?

My understanding is we are talking two different things. I believe (hope) I was clear that I was talking memberships. My understanding is this number is based on the individual names listed, no distinct membership. The number should be out next week for the Dec, 2007 audit.

When I discuss my membership with others, I have always made sure that I call it a membership. I do not like "traditional" timeshares. And in this sense, I don't consider DVC a timeshare (JMO).

I made the point MANY pages ago but I think it's OK to repeat on such a long thread, there really isn't such a thing anymore. The traditional fixed week/fixed unit timeshare is almost a thing of the past. The exceptions are for things you want to ensure a certain option like a ski week or Xmas in HI. If you take the top 10 systems they are all totally different from one another, some better and some worse in any given area than DVC.

 

[maminnie]

LisaS:

Thank you so much for your advice. I have thought that I may have to start doing this sort of thing. The reason I would prefer not to do this is that I do own a weeks worth of points at two resorts and I try not to borrow too much because of the risks involved. We had a family issue cause us to have to cancel a Disney trip once and I was so very thankful it was outside the 31 day cancellation window and I had used current points. We banked those points and had a wonderful, longer trip the next year. I really do try to avoid borrowing if I can.

Thanks again,
maminnie

 

[wildernessDad]

I haven't seen this posted in here yet. Forgive me if it has. There is some additional info on the new reservation policy on the member's website. The following is quoted material.

New policy enhances reservation bookings and waitlist procedure.
In response to ongoing Member feedback regarding our reservation processes, last week we introduced a new policy designed to enhance booking guidelines and waitlist procedures.

The new reservation policy now offers Members the opportunity to place one single phone call to secure an entire Disney Vacation Club Resort reservation for as many as 7 nights, beginning on the first day of their booking window (which is 11 months before check-in at Members' Home Resort, or 7 months before check-in at other Disney Vacation Club Resorts). The previous policy required Members to call daily at the beginning of their booking window, piecing together their reservation one night at a time.

As a result of this change, Disney Vacation Club has also streamlined the manner in which Members can make waitlist requests, now allowing Members to make requests for the consecutive nights they require to complete their desired length of stay (from one night up to as many consecutive nights needed or requested by the Member). Previously, Members would place requests on the waitlist for intermittent nights that historically had high cancellation rates and would tie up inventory in an inefficient manner, negatively impacting the overall booking process.

In addition to providing greater Member convenience, the simplification of the reservation process also provides the benefit of reduced call volume to Member Services, thereby shortening Members' wait times and making more efficient use of Member Services resources, which are supported by Members' Annual Dues.

Since the introduction of this new procedure, many Members have expressed excitement about the new policy and the greater convenience and time savings it provides. However, in the past week, some of you have contacted Member Services asking for additional clarification on how the new reservation policy works, the changes to the waitlist process, and Disney Vacation Club's plans to monitor Member activity.

Therefore, to provide additional clarification please review the following frequently asked questions and answers:

Q: Why were 7 nights chosen as the maximum length of stay permitted to book by check-in date at the start of the Home Resort Priority window?
A: Our research has shown that more than 92% of Disney Vacation Club Resort reservations are for a length of stay of 7 or less consecutive nights.

Q: What if a Member would like to reserve more than 7 consecutive nights at the start of the Home Resort Priority booking period?
A: This can be accomplished in more than one way. A Member may call at the start of the reservation booking period to reserve the first 7 nights, and then add to the reservation one night at a time until they reach their desired check-out date. Or, a Member may wait until 11 months and 7 days from their desired check-out date to reserve the entire length of stay in one call.

Q: Can Developer Vacation Points received as an incentive offer also be used to make reservations by the check-in date?
A: Yes. The change in booking guidelines applies to all reservations, including incentive reservations.

Q: Is there a minimum number of nights for which a Member can be placed on the waitlist?
A: No. Members can have a waitlist of only 1 night, if only 1 night is missing from their stay.

Q: Can you explain how Disney Vacation Club will address Member misuse of the policy?
A: Disney Vacation Club is committed to ensuring that rules and procedures are fair and balanced for the entire Membership. Therefore, as with all procedures, our Cast Members are closely monitoring reservation activity to ensure there is not potential misuse, and will modify the rules if needed to protect the overall Member experience.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Actually, I just updated my sig....I booked for New Years last year, this upcoming New Years, and Easter Week next year.....all VERY peak times. I called DBD for each of these ressies.

But it was still your choice to make the dbd calls in order to secure the reservation you want. It's hard to say but you also could have chosen to wait till your check out day and may have gotten the reservations anyway. Now, you may make the one call and find that there are no rooms available b/c everyone else is arriving before you. Then, if you still wish to make your trip you'll have to keep calling until you reach a time when the others have gone home.....probably after NYE and Easter.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I understand some people's concern, but I am one of the people that complained on the phone when I made my last few reservations for peak times. I personally think it was crazy that I had to call for 6 days in a row. That is 6 days of me calling and talking to a CM.....but that means there are thousands of people also making 6 calls instead of 1.

By changing the policy, they cut their phone calls by a 84%, which in the long run means less CM's needed to man the phones, which is a savings.

The problem, of course, is that for all the reasons discussed in this thread, there is no guarantee that the policy change will cut down on calls to MS. If a member doesn't get the room wanted on Day 1, but it might be available starting the next day, most members will make that second phone call after WLing Day 1. And so it goes, with daily calls to MS.

And many member who distrust the invisibility of the WL system, call numerous times to check on the WL. No DBD WL also means there may be a benefit to calling as you can pick up single days. As a result, more WLs means more calls.

And walking reservations, which is allowed and will be allowed in the near future, may also mean as many calls to MS.

Maybe DVC should follow the lead of the airlines and tack on fees for calling MS. With each X number of points, you get 4 free calls to MS and after that it will cost you $Y per call, please have your credit card ready.

-- Suzanne

 

[jdg345]

jdg345:

I have a weeks worth of points for my travel time; my unfortunate problem with the new system is that I own at two resorts. Our Disney travel wants and needs changed so we had to buy more hence the second contract. I purchased the second contract without hesitation because the system was so easy and flexible and after researching ownership of two resorts, I felt that I could manage it. I have had many years of success in using the wait list system to avoid having to move mid week and getting the reservations we needed.

The new system will be difficult for us. We are already talking about selling our contracts which saddens me as we love Disney and our Disney timeshare but if we can't get a reservation for the time we can travel, what good is it. It is too expensive to not use and I do not want to have to start renting.

I completely understand where you are coming from. Do you bank/borrow? If not, here's an option for you (maybe):

Assuming you stay at Resort-A the first part and Resort-B the second part.
Resort-A: Use banked points for the first days, use this UY for the last days
Resort-B: Use this UY for the first days, banked for the last days.

Does that give you enough points?

If it does, at 7 days, you can cancel the back part of Resort-A and the front part of Resort-B returning all this UY points which you can then bank into following year. Next year, you would use those points for the days you want to stay (as they would expire). Rinse, lather, and repeat.

Of course, it would mean you'd have to bank enough points this year to start the cycle into next, but it would allow you to leverage your points to help you get what you need. And, obviously, it's much more complicated than the old way.

Clearly, it's a mess, and you are booking days you clearly don't want; but maybe this gives you some options. Just a thought.

 

[jdg345]

From the Bio:

Jim has led Disney Vacation Club to more than double its business since 2003, while attaining the industry’s number one position in Member satisfaction.
​

Yea, I'm sure there is no spin going on there.....

They really never say which 'Industry', do they?

 

[jdg345]

We have the same feeling. We did not and still do not want a "traditional" timeshare and this is why we had purchased into DVC membership. As the guides have numerously stressed, they are not like other timeshares. They provide flexibility throught point-base system in which we decide when, where and for how long we want to vacation. This is flexibility in its finest. We too have asked the question of whether they will be going towards the "traditional" timeshare system where weeks are booked. The answers has always been, absolutely NOT. This is the whole basis for the DVC membership. And I do believe that this is one of the main reasons that the membership costs more than most timeshares.

When I discuss my membership with others, I have always made sure that I call it a membership. I do not like "traditional" timeshares. And in this sense, I don't consider DVC a timeshare (JMO).

Some of the PP's would suggest that those of us that bought into the flexibility and specifically wanted to stay away from traditional timeshares are in the minority of DVC owners. I would really like to see a survey go out on this ... I would think most bought because it was Disney and because it was Flexible. If you take either of those things away, it becomes ... well ... 'meh'. I least, for me.

 

[jdg345]

I have one question, if this reservation policy is in preparation for on-line booking, why couldn't day by day reservations be part of an on-line booking system just like it was with the old telephone system? Computer programs can be written to do all kinds of things, can't they? People could once again choose to wait until their check-out day to book their entire reservation on-line or be on the computer day by day to do one day at a time.

Believe me I do not like to have to do things day by day, but it was the only way that each member was on the same playing field for each day of a reservation period. Members were not rewarded for simply arriving earlier in the week then other members.

Robo-Daddy 3000:

I had a family member on the fence about buying DVC and I have alerted him to this change. He was going to possibly buy a 160 point contract so he could travel with us in the Sunday-Thursday timeframe. Once I told him about what was going on and the possible net effect to when he and I travel, he said NO WAY. I too would have a problem at this time recommending DVC to anyone and up until now I have always told people how much we love it and how different and flexible it was versus other traditional timeshares. I too got that wonderful share the magic with friends mailing and would not even think of it until this whole thing gets resolved and I am confident that I will be able to get reservations similar to what I have gotten over the past years.

maminnie

Doing DBD online should be easy. All the system would need to do is check to see if the day before was the same resort and room category. If it was, just link them automatically. Online booking for DVC would have to be different than a traditional booking system as it would have to tie into our accounts for points, etc. It would be part of our Member Portal, essentially. Of course, all imo.

 

[jdg345]

I had a family member on the fence about buying DVC and I have alerted him to this change. He was going to possibly buy a 160 point contract so he could travel with us in the Sunday-Thursday timeframe. Once I told him about what was going on and the possible net effect to when he and I travel, he said NO WAY. I too would have a problem at this time recommending DVC to anyone and up until now I have always told people how much we love it and how different and flexible it was versus other traditional timeshares. I too got that wonderful share the magic with friends mailing and would not even think of it until this whole thing gets resolved and I am confident that I will be able to get reservations similar to what I have gotten over the past years.

maminnie

You should share this anecdote with Member Satisfaction and/or Jim Lewis.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I hope everyone is sending an email to the satisfaction team to voice their complaints.
It is also important to say that you believe if the people in favor knew of all the ramifications of this system, they may not be in favor of it.
I know that doesn't hold true for everyone, but I do believe it does for most.

Send in those emails!!

MG

 

[jdg345]

I understand some people's concern, but I am one of the people that complained on the phone when I made my last few reservations for peak times. I personally think it was crazy that I had to call for 6 days in a row. That is 6 days of me calling and talking to a CM.....but that means there are thousands of people also making 6 calls instead of 1.

By changing the policy, they cut their phone calls by a 84%, which in the long run means less CM's needed to man the phones, which is a savings.

Think about it....if 50 people were calling to make reservations DBD, that equals 300 phone calls over 6 days. With the new policy, it cuts it down to 50 phone calls which is only 16% of the number of calls.

That is huge....it also prevents the situation where one night in the middle of a stay is unavailable. That wastes even more calls since the member then has to waitlist, and more phone calls are created.

This cuts down big time on the phone calls, which equals $$$$....especially since they have the 800 number where they pay for each call.

This is much more convenient for the members too. I am very busy at work, and it is sometimes difficult to make a call at exactly 9am every day during a week. It wasn't only an inconvenience, but took away from my productivity at work for the week, and there were days where I could not make a phone call first thing because of work commitments. Now, I only have to make sure I am available at 9am on the 1st day of my 11 month window and all is done.

The old way was a waste of resources and money, IMO.

It doesn't necessarily cut down on calling though; as many of suggested, it may increase calls.

Also, what do you do if your first day is not available at 9am? You're going to need to call the next day anyways, and so forth. It may be harder for you to get what you want now, and it make take more calls than you made before.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

You should share this anecdote with Member Satisfaction and/or Jim Lewis.

I agree. This is the type of thing we need to make known.

MG

 

[jarestel]

Most folks who are considering buying DVC know nothing about how the booking process "used" to work. Just as those of us who purchased after the OKW free theme park passes program expired, one can't miss what one never had.

 

[dvcdisney]

I made the point MANY pages ago but I think it's OK to repeat on such a long thread, there really isn't such a thing anymore. The traditional fixed week/fixed unit timeshare is almost a thing of the past. The exceptions are for things you want to ensure a certain option like a ski week or Xmas in HI. If you take the top 10 systems they are all totally different from one another, some better and some worse in any given area than DVC.

I will admit that I am not widely versed in the timeshare industry. I can however, say, with confidence, that at least since last October, a friend was still booking her 1 or 2 week vacations with her timeshare. I don't recall the timeshare company, but she stayed at the Sheraton Vistana on International Drive using her timeshare. She had told me that she had wished her timeshare was similar to mine so that she would be able to stay for 10 days as she had intended. Instead she had to move to another location for the remaining days of her vacation. Now I know she is very active in her reservation policy and would have undoubtly tried to book for the 10 days.

However, she had purchased this a LONG time ago and her yearly maintenance is only a fraction of what I pay. Not that I'm comparing the two, obviously apples to oranges. And I am fine paying the higher price for, what I perceive to be, this flexibility.

I am not implying that they are all like this. I know there are those using points now which was not the case a few years ago. I guess my point is that DVC was a great choice for us and the main reason for that is its flexibility. And if there are others who do the same now, then that's great. I will look into it for future reference. But, currently, I know 6 timeshare owners and none of of them have the same option as DVC.

If we were told that they will someday become more strict with when/where/how long we book, then I could honestly say, we would NOT have purchased into the membership. It was VERY important for us to be able to have this choice.

So, I am not planning on selling my membership unless DVC ceases to be THE DVC we purchased.

 

[dvcdisney]

By changing the policy, they cut their phone calls by a 84%, which in the long run means less CM's needed to man the phones, which is a savings.

Think about it....if 50 people were calling to make reservations DBD, that equals 300 phone calls over 6 days. With the new policy, it cuts it down to 50 phone calls which is only 16% of the number of calls.

That is huge....it also prevents the situation where one night in the middle of a stay is unavailable. That wastes even more calls since the member then has to waitlist, and more phone calls are created.

This cuts down big time on the phone calls, which equals $$$$....especially since they have the 800 number where they pay for each call.

This sound great on paper, but will this happen in practice?

As many have said, it's hard to say whether it will cut down on calls.

There are those who believe that the result will be the opposite.

I will admit that if everyone was able to get all their days the first call, then no need for further calling. I just don't see this happening during peak periods.

And if members are able to "walk" their reservation, this in itself would create more calls. With the OLD system, there was no need for this.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Well, I know I'll be making more calls since we usually stay more than 7 nights. So I'll have to call each day to add the next night until I have my full reservation.