New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[danielle782001]

I'm starting to lean that way, too.

This isn't a moral or ethical debate...it's simply procedural. I'd be a little more concerned if other industry leaders were all using the day-by-day system and this was (seemingly) a hare-brained idea on DVC's part. But it appears both methods are tried and true.

If DVC had been founded on the +7 system and was now changing to a day-by-day booking, we'd be having the opposite debate. "You mean I have to call seven times to book my week-long trip? And there's a chance I won't get every night that I want??? The commercial renters will just grab all of the prime times as soon as the phones open!!!!!"

I think there's a lot to be said for minimizing the amount of time that a member has to spend on the phone just to book a vacation (again, a vacation!!!) And I also like that emphasis is being placed on getting the member all of the nights they need, albeit within reasonable boundaries. I wouldn't even oppose expanding it beyond the 7 nights (the number of people who take trips longer than that has to be a tiny percentage of all members, and those people are going to be calling to book their extra nights anyway.)

Those are the facts.

Everything else that I'm seeing appears to be purely speculative. We're just getting opinions on how the system can be abused, how people will be shut-out of resorts, etc. I'm not going to condemn the change based upon these rants which may have no basis in fact.

Going back to what Chuck said a few pages ago, I say give it a shot and let's see what happens. The real test won't come until January 2009, which should be plenty of time for DVC to tweak the rules and procedures as necessary.

But shame on Disney for not handling the communications better than they have!!!

Well said

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I think some of the responses here come from a natural part of human behavior: as a species, we feel that there is a lower risk if we are in control and a higher risk when we are not in control. It is the reason we generaly feel it is safer to drive than to fly commercially, even though statistically the oppostie is true.

So many of us are stressed because DVC has removed our ability to do everything possible to get the reservation we want, namely calling day-by-day at 9 am. Under this new system, to do everything possible, you wiill need to make sure your vacation plans call for an arrival date that maximizes your chance of booking. Unfortunately, until all the policies with regard to cancellation and WL are clear, it is still not clear what that really means.

I intend to write to DVC about my dislike of this policy and to emphasize 2 things. First, that this change appears to disadvantage bookings of more than 7 days. We are not interested in staying only 7 nights and have never done so at DVC and only 1 time at WDW while attending a business conference. While longer bookings may be a minority, I would suspect that they are clustered geographically, with more of those from the West Coast or other countries booking for more than 7 days. I am surprised that these are groups that DVC really wants to discourage at this time.

Second, that the key to the flexibility of DVC is the cancellation policy. If DVC significantly changes that policy (as some have suggested it should), this would signficiantly reduce the value of DVC to many. I have NEVER made a DVC reservation that has not involved the cancellation of at least one night.

-- Suzanne

 

[zulaya]

I think it's human nature to look out for #1 (yourself).

That's probably what's driving the serious concern that is being discussed. "How is this going to affect me?" And the conclusions are what they are.

I do concur that in MOST cases, this new change will not negatively impact members making their vacations.

I know that many of us are speculating how it really will work, that some people have already called MS, etc.

But the fact is, we don't have anything official and in writing from DVC yet. Until then, which I hope really will not be when the Fall Disney Files comes out, we are free to let our minds run circles around this issue.

I admit to some nervousness how it will all play out in the end. I've made all my planned reservations for 2009 already. But I am planning on a GV at AKV in early December 2010. Two of the hot categories for concern with this new policy. So I am curious to know the details from DVC as I think we've run the gamut (sp.?) with our speculation on this thread.

 

[WolfpackFan]

I wonder what's going to happen to those who own at VB or HHI and want to make reservations for the summer.

We'll see in two weeks when I try to make a ressie for a 1BR in June.

 

[danielle782001]

I just tried to get on the DVC website and it said it was unavailable...Wondering if they are putting information about the change now

 

[RachelTori]

But shame on Disney for not handling the communications better than they have!!!

Amen! I believe that is the message Disney needs to hear LOUD AND CLEAR!!!

 

[Doug7856]

I'm starting to lean that way, too.

I've read most of the posts. I can see both sides. At this point I tend to agree with DVC Mike and tjkraz. Overall, we are looking at a simpler booking scheme that will improve service from Member Services and result in less phone calls for me to make. There will be ways to manipulate the system, but overall I think this is fair.

But shame on Disney for not handling the communications better than they have!!!

What I don't favor is DVC Management's implementation of the policy change with no notice, not publishing the exact rules, and not updating the member web site with the change before it happened. Not knowing the actual rules makes the new system extremely vulnerable to manipulation and this is wrong.

BTW, I love the debate! It's good to get balance and see both sides. Too bad our political leaders and news media don't participate in debates like we have right here on the DIS!

 

[CarolMN]

I just tried to get on the DVC website and it said it was unavailable...Wondering if they are putting information about the change now

I just now logged in so it's available now. There is nothing there about the change.

 

[mello]

I like this from a stress-reduction perspective. When I was making our reservations for our mid-December stay in a concierge 1 BR villa at AKV, calling day by day right at 9:00 AM was pretty stressful. It would be nice to only have to make 1 phone call and know where you stand for the whole trip. However, it may make it harder to get the highly sought after rooms (like the concierge rooms or GV's), since portions of your stay may have already been booked by folks who called earlier with dates that overlap yours.

I do like this idea from the perspective of those who want to change to a resort other than their home resort at the 7 month window. With this system, I will call at book something at AKV (my home resort) at the 11 month window. Then for those trips where I'd like to stay at another DVC resort, I can call at the 7 month window and know right away whether my entire stay can be accommodated or not. It's nice to not wind up with a bunch of days spread around between different resorts.

I think for most situations, this plan will work just fine. There are those who work the system no matter what the rules & policies are. And for every solution to the problem of people getting around the rules, there will be another person or group hurt by the solution.

Last summer, for example, I got burned when they suddenly decided to change the policy to only one transfer per year. Most agreed it was a good policy to discourage speculative renters. I am not a speculative renter, but I was in the middle of trying to get the amount of points we needed for our grand gathering. I was right in the middle of a two part transaction when the rules changed. So we decided to suck it up and buy more points instead.

I think the idea of not allowing the first night of a ressie to be dropped would help discourage abuse, but then it would harm those people who need to legitimately drop a night for one reason or another.

Another possibility would be to do as they do with ADR's and hold back a certain percentage of rooms to be released on the actual 11 month dates. You couldn't do that for 7 months though, so it wouldn't help there, but that might make the resort owner advantage stronger, which wouldn't, imho be a bad thing.

There's a fine line between discouraging abuse and limiting the freedom and flexibility for regular people. Not sure where that line is, exactly

And yes, it does seem like the system is moving towards encouraging traditional 7 night stays. That I dont' like. I was thinking that perhaps allowing 5 night bookings rather than 7 nts would be more fair to those with smaller contracts, and it might reduce the monkeying around with weekend nights when manipulating the system. We typcially stay 10-14 nights, and it remains to be seen how we'll go about booking that length of time.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

What I'm having a hard time wrapping my thoughts around is the comments of "thank goodness I don't have to call day by day any more and we're all on equal footing". Under the old system no one ever HAD to call day by day - you could wait until your vacation check out date and call then.....one call, no muss, no fuss....as long as all your days were still available.

Now, with the new system it seems to be exactly the same to me. Call on your check IN date, one call, no muss, no fuss......as long as all your days are still available b/c other people checking in before you will have potentially still booked up the type of room you really wanted.

However - the biggest change is that if you really wanted to guarantee that day, room type etc you no longer have it within your control to have the best shot at making it happen.

The thought that people are suggesting to MS to not allow a change to your reservation without cancelling is just frightening to me. I bought DVC because of the much touted flexibility. If I had wanted the traditional timeshare I would have bought that (and I never would have).

My experience with hotels is that I can often run into one day in a stay that is already booked. That means that I have to stay somewhere else or adjust my dates. DVC has only a limited number of accomodations. Now I see the home resort "advantage" becoming a restriction. If I can't get the time I want at my home resort at 11 months, then I need to wait until 7 months to try and compete with everyone else to get specific dates. In a hotel situation I don't have to sweat it out for 4 months waiting to see if I'll be able to take that vacation when I want to.

And please be aware that I do think this is mostly going to affect certain booking categories and certain resorts during popular times. I bought VWL to be able to stay there.....and sometimes that's going to be during the popular Dec. timeframe. If I've decided to go then, I want to go then and thought I would at least have a very good ability to do that as long as I was willing to do a little extra work with day by day calling. When I can be flexibile then I would not bother with day by day calling. Otherwise I could have stuck with hotel reservations and had a lot more options and more certainty of getting what I wanted.

 

[pyrxtc]

I am new, and have no history of making reservations, other than a two-night stay for my son and his family this coming November, before they begin a six-day stay in a value suite. I think I will like the opportunity to know that I can count on a six- or seven-night stay in the same room, without taking a chance on losing my reservation mid-stay, with day-to-day calling, just because I could not immediately get through to MS, or because I caught a less than sharp castmember on the third day.

I really think that, in order to make this work, DVC will need to implement some sort of policy to limit changes: for instance, requiring that the check-in date of any reservation may not be altered within the first month after confirmation, without cancelling and rebooking. (Or something of the sort.)
This would at least eliminate the rolling reservation scenario some have envisioned. Yes, if someone can afford to purchase unholy numbers of points in order to gain an advantage over the rest of us, I guess there is nothing to keep that person from calling every week and reserving a whole month, and later cancelling the first three weeks. You just cannot plug every loophole.

This would continue to allow folks who have legitimate reasons to alter their plans, to do so, as most of those changes come closer to the dates of travel, rather than early in the reservation period.

I think this is an awesome idea. Maybe we could start sending this suggestion to MS instead of just complaints about the new system.

 

[jodifla]

For all the comments about "gaming" the system: Most DVCers just want to be able to go on vacation when their time off/flights allow. It's not a matter of trying to get one over on somebody else, it's a matter of trying to make their life work.

I think it's too soon to tell how this will play out. I have a trip slated for Jan. but was told to call on the 24th of June to book it, looks like I could have calld days ago now. I also have no idea exactly which day we are coming in or leaving, since we don't have airfare yet.

I'll probably book a Sunday through Saturday, and just stay somewhere else if we end up coming in on Saturday night or staying until Monday. I like to book studios for one night to try out different resorts...

I HATE that we find out these things, like no more smoking, in this inconsiderate, backhanded way. DVC should have more respect for its members than this.

 

[Bopsmom]

I still don't understand what this will do to those who only want/can book 5 days? Do you call MS at 11 month mark to the day you want to check in and the automatically add 7 days? What if I don't want to stay a Friday/Saturday? We drive and DH works so those are our driving days?

What am I missing. I booked DayToDay for this upcoming trip but we toyed with the idea of June, 2009 but I don't want to stay over the weekend. Does that mean I can't book or have to go back to day-to-day booking.

 

[mello]

I intend to write to DVC about my dislike of this policy and to emphasize 2 things. First, that this change appears to disadvantage bookings of more than 7 days. We are not interested in staying only 7 nights and have never done so at DVC and only 1 time at WDW while attending a business conference. While longer bookings may be a minority, I would suspect that they are clustered geographically, with more of those from the West Coast or other countries booking for more than 7 days. I am surprised that these are groups that DVC really wants to discourage at this time.

Second, that the key to the flexibility of DVC is the cancellation policy. If DVC significantly changes that policy (as some have suggested it should), this would signficiantly reduce the value of DVC to many. I have NEVER made a DVC reservation that has not involved the cancellation of at least one night.

-- Suzanne

As a fellow west coaster, I am totally 100% with you on point #1.

I also agree with you about the flexibility. That was one of the major selling points for us when we decided to buy. If our flexibility in length of stay goes away, we will want out. And come to think of it, I've never made a DVC ressie without changes either.

 

[danielle782001]

I still don't understand what this will do to those who only want/can book 5 days? Do you call MS at 11 month mark to the day you want to check in and the automatically add 7 days? What if I don't want to stay a Friday/Saturday? We drive and DH works so those are our driving days?

What am I missing. I booked DayToDay for this upcoming trip but we toyed with the idea of June, 2009 but I don't want to stay over the weekend. Does that mean I can't book or have to go back to day-to-day booking.

From my understanding...You can book as few days as you want up to 7 days...So you can call at 11/7 months and book a five day trip from the day you plan to arrive in Disney..They are not forcing you to stay 7 or on weekends...You are free to book 5 and not call day-to-day..Just call from arrive date.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

As a fellow west coaster, I am totally 100% with you on point #1.

I also agree with you about the flexibility. That was one of the major selling points for us when we decided to buy. If our flexibility in length of stay goes away, we will want out. And come to think of it, I've never made a DVC ressie without changes either.

Me too! For people who drive I think it's less of an issue, but when you fly it is very easy to have to change by a day or two or three. If they begin cancelling reservations in total and requiring rebooking if you need to adjust days, as some people are suggesting to MS, that will be extremely unfair I believe. And with airlines in such a flux it may not even be you that causes it.

 

[jdg345]

I've already sent Mr. Lewis my comments. I'm really happy about the change.

I should not have to add an Associate Member to my membership to be on an equal footing with those who want to call day-by-day. With the new system, everyone who wants a reservation beginning 11 months from today can call and try to get it without tying up MS's phones for days on end while they book a day at a time.

Again, this is all about value. This works for you by putting less value on those that tried harder to get reservations. To get the key times and locations, people had to put a little more work into it in calling day-by-day. They were rewarded for their extra effort by getting the time and location that they wanted. Now it just makes it easier for speculative renters to pick up the best weeks.

I also believe that you are actually on less of an equal footing now than if you would add an Associate Member. Not only are you competing with people booking with the same arrival date you have, but now you're competing with those that arrived *before* you too!

It seems that you like this change because you were unable to book day-by-day and you felt that was an unfair advantage some had. Now you have a situation where people are still going to be able to call at 9am, and you still can't. Plus, the likelihood that people that booked yesterday and the day before might already have taken up inventory. You may have less of a shot now than you did before.

Sure, this policy is new, so those booking now aren't affected. It'll be interesting in a few months when people are really made aware of the change en-masse and the Thanksgiving Window opens up. When/If speculators book Friday to Friday of Thanksgiving week on multiple reservations with one phone call, I can see a lot more people up in arms. Time will tell, of course, but I find it highly unlikely that those who were used to arriving mid-week Thanksgiving week will have any sort of chance of getting their reservations without checking eBay.

 

[doconeill]

I still don't understand what this will do to those who only want/can book 5 days? Do you call MS at 11 month mark to the day you want to check in and the automatically add 7 days? What if I don't want to stay a Friday/Saturday? We drive and DH works so those are our driving days?

You don't have to book 7 days.

The point is, that if you are booking less than 7 days, then you might have a lesser chance of getting a room because someone who _did_ book 7 days got the room before you because they are arriving at least a day before you.

I think a lot of it will have to do with what the "typical" (i.e. most common) 7 day stay is. Is that Sat-Fri? If so, and you want to book less than 7 days and not start on a Saturday, you might have less rooms available to you for your stay. Even if you are booking 7 days, but not the "typical" days, you may find no availability for the first portion of your planned stay.

 

[jdg345]

I've read most of the posts. I can see both sides. At this point I tend to agree with DVC Mike and tjkraz. Overall, we are looking at a simpler booking scheme that will improve service from Member Services and result in less phone calls for me to make. There will be ways to manipulate the system, but overall I think this is fair.

This is still to be seen, imo. It depends on how DVC decides to handle adds/changes to reservations. In the end, it could result in just as many phone calls, if not more. It's just that everything begins a week earlier.

What I don't favor is DVC Management's implementation of the policy change with no notice, not publishing the exact rules, and not updating the member web site with the change before it happened. Not knowing the actual rules makes the new system extremely vulnerable to manipulation and this is wrong.

Wholeheartedly Agree!

BTW, I love the debate! It's good to get balance and see both sides. Too bad our political leaders and news media don't participate in debates like we have right here on the DIS!

Debates are fun!

 

[jdg345]

I still don't understand what this will do to those who only want/can book 5 days? Do you call MS at 11 month mark to the day you want to check in and the automatically add 7 days? What if I don't want to stay a Friday/Saturday? We drive and DH works so those are our driving days?

What am I missing. I booked DayToDay for this upcoming trip but we toyed with the idea of June, 2009 but I don't want to stay over the weekend. Does that mean I can't book or have to go back to day-to-day booking.

You can book 5 days ... it's just that you can book no more than 7 days from your arrival in one shot. So instead of calling day by day 11/7 months out of your 5th day, you know call on the morning 11/7 months out of your 1st day and ask for 5.

Depending on how they handle cancelling, you could even call 11/7 months out of 2 days before you arrive, book the full 7, and then cancel the first two. That would give you a two day 'head start' over people booking that same arrival date.