New Parking Structure/Pedestrian Bridge Question

[MommyLove]

This thread is fascinating and I've been reading it all along. Thanks Darkbeer1 and others for the information and opinions. It will be fun to see how this all progresses!

Is the Park Vue still going to do their expansion? If so, when will it begin and when will it be completed?

 

[Darkbeer1]

In regards to the Park Vue Inn, I presume they will wait and see if their is some sort of compromise to getting access from the back of their property to the new pedestrian bridge (that should be decided in the next few months), and if they need to make some changes to the front of the property in regards to the new changes that will be made on Harbor.

But as I understand it, the family is still focused on expansion/improving the property. Remember, that the city would also have to approve those changes in the permit process.

As with much of this thread's info, only time will tell.

(And thank you for the complement)

 

[Kindermouse]

This thread is fascinating and I've been reading it all along. Thanks Darkbeer1 and others for the information and opinions. It will be fun to see how this all progresses!

Is the Park Vue still going to do their expansion? If so, when will it begin and when will it be completed?

You make an interesting point about the Park Vue expansion-Since I doubt they will be dropping a lot of money into an expansion if they indeed will come out on the losing end of this skybridge/harbor access issue. Following what they end up going through with may indeed be a good barometer for how things will play out in terms of access from across the street.

 

[Darkbeer1]

In the total review of the area, I really don't think that losing the current pedestrian crosswalk is a big deal to the Park Vue Inn. Look at all the new building in the area, including the new Courtyard and Holiday Inn Express, and coming soon the 4 star Hotel replacing the Anaheim Plaza. And also all the other projects that have been announced in the larger area.

The Park Vue will want to upgrade and improve to compete against these newer properties, and knows the best way to increase room rates is to offer a better overall experience.

Heck, now might be the best time to start closing down parts of their property for the improvements, since their will be other construction noises happening, and be ready in 2018/2019 for a "New" Park Vue Inn to match up with the new Eastern Gateway Project and Star Wars Land.

The properties on Harbor have been around since the 1950's and 1960's and have survived many different changes over the years, and the Park Vue owner have shown they don't want to "sell" based on the recent past.

 

[MommyLove]

(And thank you for the complement)

Well thank YOU for all the information you provide! I appreciate it!

In the total review of the area, I really don't think that losing the current pedestrian crosswalk is a big deal to the Park Vue Inn.

I think I have to disagree with you there especially if (see below) is the end result

If they get rid of the street crossing on the corner of Disney Way and Harbor, it definitely makes for a long walk from BWPPI. Walking from BWPPI all the way down to Disney Way, then back up to the new walkway would take 3320 ft just to cross the street. I'm sure BWPPI and the other hotels there will be fighting hard for a back entrance into that walkway.

View attachment 188152

The bit about the Harbor hotels not having direct access from the back of their properties to the pedestrian walkway is the thing that is most shocking to me about the whole plan. Disney Dad's map showing the route someone staying at BWPPI (a favorite for us for the easy walking access) would have to walk (assuming no closer Harbor crossing) to get to the pedestrian "portal" to the walkway illustrates the drastic difference in walking distance. HUGE bummer for the way our family likes to do Disneyland (rope drop, long afternoon break at the hotel, back to the parks for the night).

 

[Darkbeer1]

As mentioned earlier, there will be some gaining, such as the Quality Inn and the new Holiday Inn Express being close to the new hub, but....
...
Look at the Candy Cane Inn, a favorite of many. It is a farther walk, but still a popular off-property Motel for those looking for a lower end property.

Looking at maybe the group that will lose the most is the IHOP and Denny's, though there will still be enough business in nearby guests to stay in business.

Things change, and people adapt to them. Will there be a bit of a short term issue, yes.

But then two new 4 star Hotels within the same walking distance to the new Pedestrian Entrance on Disney Way (Pumbaa), looks like the lower end Motels will have to react to that, and more than likely upgrade their properties.

And unlike the Park Vue, those with the ground floor already used for parking, and the rooms built above it, they lack much room for expansion. And due to the "Disney Core" height requirements, they will have to go to underground parking (as the city requires a certain amount of parking spaces based on how many rooms the property has) to expand and upgrade. Which means a multi-year closure to finish the project. (The Park Vue has the option to do it in segments).

But we are looking forward and there are still a lot of factors in play.

Now will they just work on the group of the older Motels on Katella next to the Katella CM lot, they have a lot of potential, as compared to how they are currently run (with poor reviews).

 

[Kindermouse]

But then two new 4 star Hotels within the same walking distance to the new Pedestrian Entrance on Disney Way (Pumbaa), looks like the lower end Motels will have to react to that, and more than likely upgrade their properties.

I disagree that the 4 star places will have an impact on the harbor motels. People who stay at the harbor motels aren't looking to pay 4 star prices-otherwise they'd book one of the Disney hotels. I don't think the harbor motels will be affected by the 4 star hotels because their clientele are aware that they aren't getting a 4 star hotel room and never tried to book one in the first place and are ok with that as long as the price is right and the room is clean and not too cramped.

As far as Candy Cane goes it has the same star rating on yelp as HoJo and a better rating than Paradise Pier or DLH but a way better price than any of those and though it lacks the convenience of the across the street places it has a shuttle. The shuttle makes a difference that none of the other hotels can match since they aren't allowed to get their own shuttles. After the new bridge one could take a shuttle to the hub from candy cane and still get good customer service, a serviceable room and a better price than currently offered at any of the places around the new hub-which are likely to go up rather than come down. Some people would just rather spend their money in the parks rather than outside of it.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I think that each owner will have to take a serious look at the value of the land, as compared to what they are currently making in profit. The Anaheim Plaza decided it is better to raze and rebuild a property that can bring in more profit per room.

The Tropicana and Camelot are owned by the same owners, so there is a lot of potential there for something new. (EDITED).

The Park Vue Inn owners have stated that they want to upgrade and improve their property.

The Grand Legacy just spent some money and removed a decent part of their property and rebuilt it.

There are is getting more mid-range to high range in general, and the question is, is it worth it to pend the money today to make more tomorrow? And some have already made the decision. And of course, that makes the nearby land more valuable, and gives the current owners another option, what is the magic number to sell and walk away?

All questions that will have to be addressed in the future, but trust me, they are thinking about those questions already....

 

[Nonsuch]

...The Tropicana and Carousel are owned by the same owners, so there is a lot of potential there for something new...

I assume you mean the Tropicana and the Camelot (or are you checking to see if anyone is paying attention )

The Carousel is between these two properties, so the pedestrian bridge construction will have the most impact on one owner

 

[Kindermouse]

The Tropicana and Carousel are owned by the same owners, so there is a lot of potential there for something new.

I thought that the Carousel was owned by Disney-who is tearing it down?

And Its my understanding that the hotel owners in the area almost never sell, and that was what made Disney's purchase of the Carousel such a big deal when it happened last year. At least that's what was published in the Register at the time.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Yes, I meant the Carousel, sorry..... My Bad.

Well, that is somewhat true in regards to selling, but we have had the Anaheim Plaza and Carousel just recently, and of course other properties when the Anaheim GardenWalk was built.

As they say, everyone has their price....

 

[Darkbeer1]

One thought, convert the Carousel to mainly parking, maybe with a shop/restaurant or two, to allow to use the Tropicana property for a larger group of hotel rooms that are upgraded.

Maybe make a deal with Disney for a pedestrian pathway between the two underneath the planned ramp area near Harbor (where the height would be higher).

Just saying....

 

[Kindermouse]

That would be great idea-tropicana needs every parking space they can get for sure.

 

[Albort]

That new Marriott Courtyard and Holiday Inn behind that both looks very pretty and nice... theres gonna be a lot revamps imo. They just built 2 new hotels i think on harbor and Patella too...

 

[Darkbeer1]

That new Marriott Courtyard and Holiday Inn behind that both looks very pretty and nice... theres gonna be a lot revamps imo. They just built 2 new hotels i think on harbor and Patella too...

Actually there are three at the south end of Harbor and Katella.

Springhill Hotel above CVS, Hyatt House over the Walgreen's, and the new Residence Inn next to the Springhill next to the Anaheim Convention Center expansion work.

Also, you had the conversion to the Hotel Indigo near the corner (North East side).

And you still have the empty lot between the Castle Inn and Strip Mall with Subway. If I remember correctly, it was bought for the Anaheim GardenWalk but never could get another property to sell to use it. (landlocked).

But if see what was built, limited service Hotels with Kitchens on two of the three properties, so value priced middle of the road properties.

And I think that is the trend, you are looking at a few new 4 stars, and then the somewhat upscale (such as the New Cambria just announced (I started a new thread on the subject yesterday), larger rooms with some sort of kitchen in them but limited services (no valet, bell hops, etc.)

You will always have a good mix, but the value Motels looks like they will be forced farther away due to financial reasons.

Look at the Desert Palms, who just spent Millions to change the faced of the building, and upgrading its rooms, and the Alpine Inn, which is still the same basic Motel it has been for decades.

Take the Alpine Inn, and the small Alamo/National rental Car lot, and there is another property that could be upgraded. (The Anabella is already scheduled to be replaced with a 4 star)

You also have a second "pad" for a Hotel available at Anaheim GardenWalk, just south of the Fire Station.

So much motivation to upgrade and change the property to a higher star level.

Same with the Motels west of Disneyland Drive/West Street (same road that changes names).

 

[Kindermouse]

For us if the whole area goes to 4 star with 4 star prices we might as well go to WDW. It will cost the same even though we have to fly from the west coast to Florida. If im going to spend 4-5 hundred a night on a hotel I'm going to do it at real disney resort in a real disney bubble. I think a lot of people will do the same-If i'm gonna plunk down six to ten thousand per trip for a party of 2 I might as well do it once in while and stay at the on property places and then spread my trips out to other places. I think Disney would lose in the end because if hotel costs go up people would spend a lot less in the park and come a lot less often.

It would sure be a sad thing to see Disneyland turn into that. I love going 3+ times a year and spending my money on special event tickets, special dinners and parade/Fantasmic/show/WOC packages and pins and souvenirs. What a bummer the average person loses access to that kind of experience. Heck for those prices I could try out Shanghai Disney. On youtube it look like they have some awesome rides.

 

[mamapenguin]

For us if the whole area goes to 4 star with 4 star prices we might as well go to WDW. It will cost the same even though we have to fly from the west coast to Florida. If im going to spend 4-5 hundred a night on a hotel I'm going to do it at real disney resort in a real disney bubble. I think a lot of people will do the same-If i'm gonna plunk down six to ten thousand per trip for a party of 2 I might as well do it once in while and stay at the on property places and then spread my trips out to other places. I think Disney would lose in the end because if hotel costs go up people would spend a lot less in the park and come a lot less often.

It would sure be a sad thing to see Disneyland turn into that. I love going 3+ times a year and spending my money on special event tickets, special dinners and parade/Fantasmic/show/WOC packages and pins and souvenirs. What a bummer the average person loses access to that kind of experience. Heck for those prices I could try out Shanghai Disney. On youtube it look like they have some awesome rides.

I agree with you. I love DL, but I need for there to be affordable hotel options to keep me coming back. On the WDW side, I have family that lives 2.5 miles from the parks and about 10 miles from Universal Orlando. Even if I needed a hotel at WDW, there are so many that it's pretty easy to find an inexpensive Disney hotel there.

 

[Darkbeer1]

You have to look at the big picture, which isn't just the Disneyland Resort. The city of Anaheim decided to build the Convention Center next to Disneyland in the 1960's to take advantage of the Disneyland visitors and crowds. And now you have the major venues of Angel Stadium and Honda Center to take into consideration. Visitors come to the area not always for Disneyland, but other reasons. The Anaheim Convention Center is now the largest Center on the West Coast, and is expanding again to meet demand.

So the non-Disney Hotels/motels look at all the venues and wants business from all the visitors.

Heck, all three Disney owned Hotels have convention facilities as part of the property, and have had for decades. So even Disney Hotels doesn't totally focus on park guests, but the business folks that spend lots of money on rooms, facilities and meals.

There will always be "value" Motels, such as the current ones north of Ball on Harbor, or the group on Harbor south of Convention Way. But if you look at that segment of the Resort Area, once again, a lot of new limited service Hotels have been added and that multiple Motels have been removed for them.

But for economic reasons, more than likely you might find the Motel 6 on Disney Way as being the cheapest basic Motel to the parks in a decade or so.... (And that was upgraded once to a Red Roof Inn, and then switched back when Accor (former owners of the Motel 6 brand) sold its Red Roof branding. (And Accor since sold Motel 6). Heck, even Motel 6 now has a few rooms that come with a mini-kitchen for an extra fees.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I just came up with a weird example, but at least IMHO, related to the topic...

I live in West Anaheim, in what was known as Doctor's row in the 1960's. My neighborhood is a standard large suburb development, but the street I live on is different. Of course, in the 1960's the city was growing, in part due to Disneyland, but also due to the facts the roadways for access to the area were improving for multiple reasons.

One needed thing was another Hospital/Medical Center, and the city knew it, and worked with the Developers to add nicer housing to attract Doctors. No tax credits, but as a way to get approvals for the building permits, it was part of the deal. So while most of the streets near my house have nice single story homes (currently around the value of a median house in Orange County).

But my street has larger, 2 story homes that were built to a higher quality standard, and also easy access to the Hospital. So multiple issues that had the city influence the development for traffic flows and good things for the area.

The city has helped me out with a free tree to the backyard, and gave me a multi-thousand rebate for my Solar power system, helped pay for my new windows and new HVAC system due to the energy savings involved. The city is very pro-active in street Sweeping, better quality roads than other nearby cities and counties, and much more, and some of that is thanks to the Hotel Taxes that are created by the Resort District.

Getting back to the original focus of this thread, the city does have to take into consideration ALL the parties involved, yes Disney is a big one, but also all the non-Disney businesses in the area, but also the needs of the Residents that live in the city, plus all the folks that work in the city. Also what the city wants, since the run the Convention Center, the landlord of Angel Stadium, Honda Center and The City National Grove of Anaheim).

One of the issues in why the city decided to ban STR's was regards to having more housing available for workers to lessen their commute, by making sure residential zoned area were that, places where someone who wanted to live (and not rent for a few days) can live, such as the Condos on Walnut.

So the city has to balance all those matters, and that does include traffic flow issues, and while there is a very high likelihood that the traffic flow changes will be agreed to and passed by the city council, and that includes the removal of the current crosswalk when newer options like the bridge are open for use.

 

[Mama_bear]

crazy! definitely means ill be reconsidering our regular hotel choices if they close the harbor entrance :-(