New Parking Structure/Pedestrian Bridge Question

[Kindermouse]

The Anaheim Convention Center is now the largest Center on the West Coast, and is expanding again to meet demand.

I am surprised to read this since I when I visited in March for the Natural Products West Expo I kept thinking how it paled in comparison to the San Diego convention center. Some of the offerings had to be held in hotels rather than at the convention center itself because there wasn't enough room. you never see that at comiccon (a very different type of convention though)

But back to my main point. I feel like your point of view, as local who has a vested interest in seeing his property values increase, is going to be very different from an out of town vacationer and a Disney enthusiast. Sure it sounds great to you, but it's a big turn off to those of us that are there for Disney-to the point that many may decide to vacation elsewhere which would equally hurt anaheim tourism. Disney is the biggest tourism draw here, and part of the draw to those very convention goers is the nearness to Disney and the opportunity to double dip ones dollars and turn a convention into a family vacation as well.

WDW also hosts a lot of conventions and yet they manage to do well with their value hotels. Infact they have done so well that their most recent addition was not more moderates or deluxes but another value hotel. Infact the values are some of the fastest to book up-it's the moderates, particularly their convention hotel that seems to have the most availability to me while I am planning our trip for next year. I think squeezing out the values or turning them all into moderates is not the great business plan some might think it is on the surface.

But you have a point about the hotels you mentioned specifically-those places were in serious need of a facelift to say the least. I think the best game plan there is to improve so they can be a a more competitive value lodging-not to try and turn into a 4 or 5 star lodging.

 

[Kindermouse]

This actually reminds me of the short sighted thinking that keeps the superhero/comic entertainment folks from marketing their products to girls. I read an article on it once that was very interesting:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/paul-dini-superhero-cartoon-execs-dont-want-largely-f-1483758317

but the problem with their thinking is that If you only cater to one type of clientele and refuse to market to the rest of those that might enjoy your brand you are losing out on a lot of potential sales.

Rather than say "we don't want that type of customer, because we don't think they will spend as much money in this one way" why don't they diversify their offerings and increase their slice of the pie. there is money to be made by more than one type of customer in anaheim and I think the city would do best to keep its offerings diversified as well.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Well, if you look at what gives the city more money, the Hotel (TOT) tax of 15% is a big part of the budget. So the city does have incentive to help businesses increase the room rates.

But they also have a main goal of improving traffic flow.

For example, the reason the ART Shuttle was created by the city of Anaheim (Anaheim Transportation Network), to help with the traffic, and gain "clean air" credits. The city does have Regional, State and Federal oversite that pushes and mandates certain things, and by taking individual shuttle vans (mainly using gas/diesel) and switching to fewer vehicle that fill up with multiple stops and using cleaner options, such as electric and natural gas delivered money from the Federal and State Government.

Another example, the Federal Government is a main factor in the creation of the special Tool Lanes that share the Carpool lanes. Since the Federal Government pays for a good percentage of them, they also have standards. In this case, during rush hours on Freeways, that the lane(s) need to go at least 45 MPH 90% of the time. And why California has come up with the FasTrak Plus system with variable pricing depending on the current conditions, too slow, raise the price for slow drivers, or in some cases 2 people (3+ are free). And this is not just a California issue, I know Atlanta has a lot of the same issues, along with other states.

So the city is being pushed by others to focus on traffic.

But businesses will always look at the whole market. Disney has decided due to limited land they own, to focus on the high-end of Hotels in Anaheim (as compared to WDW, which is a totally different beast). Decades ago, Disney did create the "Good Neighbor" program, to help promote a much more varied set of Hotels/Motels and price ranges.

Disney has given every owner on Harbor near the parks a price point where they would by the property for its own use. Of course, it is kept private, but is a good starting point. For example, the Carousel was sold for $32 Million. (and maybe some brownie points in regards to the 4 star Tax credits that both wanted).

As stated, there will always be different types of Hotels and Motels in the area, but they might shift around due to economic factors.

 

[Ismael68]

It looks like the Toy Story Lot buses will drop off a bit farther away, where the Taxi Stand is currently off of Harbor. This and a special ADA shuttle service from the new Transportation Hub will be the only two shuttles allowed to use the area (driveway entrance at Disney Way). Then there will be a secondary Security Check entrance for those guests, and those crossing on Harbor Blvd at Manchester (the HoJo folks). It will much smaller in size than currently available.
That and the Toy Story Buses will be the only two allowed to use the area. Anyone being dropped off with ADA needs will have to go to the new Hub on Manchester, and use the new Shuttle, or opt for using the bridge, which some folks will opt to do

just curious, why would they even consider using the small shuttle drop off for toy story drop off? right now they have multiple buses coming and going constantly from Toy story parking area with hundred of guests, wouldn't it make more sense to just drive up clementine to the new shuttle area and drop people off there. I'm trying to remember but right now they go up clementine then turn left on Disney way and then in the Disney way driveway to shuttle stop. dropping off at new shuttle area would cut the trip short

 

[Ismael68]

I find this all very discouraging. It's a great deal of our entire Disney experience to stay right across the street and have a short, quick walk to and from the parks. The entire idea of being directly across the street and having Disney erect a fence so that you can't cross is just mean sprited to me and is the exact oposite of "Disney magic".
We have started taking fewer trips to DLR and I see that continuing with this kind of attitude towards guests.

if a fence is built in the middle of the street don't blame Disney. Disney does not have control of what the city does on city property. for safety reasons i do think that a nice fence like the one that is there in parts of the street is necessary though. like someone mentioned, people will cross thru just because they don't want to walk. I could just imagine the landscaping being destroyed by strollers and people making paths where there is none

 

[Ismael68]

hopefully this is not a bit off topic but i was looking at an aerial view of the area on google and if they do reroute the monorail would it be possible to re-use several of the existing track pieces.
seems like the whole curve that leads from Harbor into DCA might be able to get reused and moved north.
Maybe it would be a good time to look at the whole monorail system and all its tracks sections and see if they can removed the inner circle 8 mess over the old motorboat area and see if some of those track pieces can be re-used. Once that overhead mess is removed that area becomes prime expansion area for an attraction.

 

[agamble]

First, I just thought I'd point out that the Candy Cane Inn isn't exactly cheap compared to the Desert Inn and Suites. I suppose prices could be comparable for last minute booking, etc., but whenever I've looked Desert Inn and Suites is significantly cheaper than Candy Cane Inn and I can get a bigger room, currently just across the street by staying at Desert Inn.

I'd also like to say that people choose the hotels across the street less because they're cheap and more because they're across the street. I agree that those hotels would be smart to invest in bigger changes and up the quality of their hotels to compete, especially if they lose their easy access. They could significantly raise their prices and people would still book them if it's convenient to get to the parks. They really should push for private entrances into the new parking/security area. Price is a big deciding factor on where we choose to stay and we'll stay a little further away for a less expensive room (similar quality), but a lot of people on the boards are looking for the closest hotel they can get and are willing to pay more per night for the convenience of being close.

 

[agamble]

This actually reminds me of the short sighted thinking that keeps the superhero/comic entertainment folks from marketing their products to girls. I read an article on it once that was very interesting:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/paul-dini-superhero-cartoon-execs-dont-want-largely-f-1483758317

but the problem with their thinking is that If you only cater to one type of clientele and refuse to market to the rest of those that might enjoy your brand you are losing out on a lot of potential sales.

Not to be too off of the original topic, but I found that interesting too. First of all what do they mean girls don't buy toys? Especially since the figures showed more money was spent on girl toys annually than boy toys. My daughter loves super heroes and all boy toys. She actually doesn't play with dolls (I've tried and hope baby sister will). I have noticed the new Female Super Hero action figures they're selling, but I don't think she'd like those. She would rather have a Batman doll than a female dressed as a new "unknown" character or Wonder Woman. She just likes the actual super heroes. When they watch Power Rangers she says she's the red one (brother is the blue). I pointed out that the Pink and Yellow ones are girls, but she didn't care. Though she did tell her Dad that he couldn't be the Pink one because he was a boy. They also pointed out that the girls would buy super hero merchandise like T-shirts. And I have noticed so many girls and women wearing super hero themed shirts in pink, purple, and other female designs (such as the cut of the shirt). So super heroes definitely have their appeal for girls.

 

[SgtTibbs]

I typically stay at the Park Vue or Desert Inn do to location. They are both closer to the Disneyland front gate than the Grand Californian. Price is also a big deal. If I wanted to spend more I would book a Disney resort. As of today, for a four day stay, I can book at the Desert Inn and save enough over the price of the Disneyland hotel to pay for my park tickets, airfare, and still have hundreds left over. If they close the entrance, or these hotels triple in price it's a game changer and not in a good way.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

I typically stay at the Park Vue or Desert Inn do to location. They are both closer to the Disneyland front gate than the Grand Californian. Price is also a big deal. If I wanted to spend more I would book a Disney resort. As of today, for a four day stay, I can book at the Desert Inn and save enough over the price of the Disneyland hotel to pay for my park tickets, airfare, and still have hundreds left over. If they close the entrance, or these hotels triple in price it's a game changer and not in a good way.

No doubt it's not good for people who like to stay at those hotels immediately across the street. How much it actually affects the experience staying there remains to be seen.

I can't remember if I said this already, but I find it extremely unlikely that Disney decided to do this project for the specific purpose of screwing over the Harbor hotels. It just seems like an extemely expensive and roundabout way of inconveniencing 3-4 hotels. Although once the project was on the table, I'm sure there is some Disney big wig who realizes it may be a nice side perk for them.

 

[5forMickey]

I can't remember if I said this already, but I find it extremely unlikely that Disney decided to do this project for the specific purpose of screwing over the Harbor hotels. It just seems like an extemely expensive and roundabout way of inconveniencing 3-4 hotels. Although once the project was on the table, I'm sure there is some Disney big wig who realizes it may be a nice side perk for them.

Totally agree. In fact, I'm not sure I think that they even consider the impact or not of other Hotels. It's not like the other Motels/Hotels are taking their business away. Their Hotels are all they would really care about and they are full all of the time, hence the new Hotel plan. I'm sure they are only concerned about entry for their own properties, the ones they don't own are probably not even on their radar.

 

[STLstone]

No doubt it's not good for people who like to stay at those hotels immediately across the street. How much it actually affects the experience staying there remains to be seen.

I can't remember if I said this already, but I find it extremely unlikely that Disney decided to do this project for the specific purpose of screwing over the Harbor hotels. It just seems like an extemely expensive and roundabout way of inconveniencing 3-4 hotels. Although once the project was on the table, I'm sure there is some Disney big wig who realizes it may be a nice side perk for them.

Either that or they'll just point to their fancy new security station and decide it's not worth the money to also continue to staff a 3rd entrance at the Harbor street level.

Assuming the Harbor entrance really gets closed it seems like providing back-side access for these hotel to the new portal would be fair thing to add. This would still be a longer walk for guests at those hotels, but not as bad as the worst-case scenario.

 

[Indiana Scott]

if a fence is built in the middle of the street don't blame Disney. Disney does not have control of what the city does on city property. for safety reasons i do think that a nice fence like the one that is there in parts of the street is necessary though. like someone mentioned, people will cross thru just because they don't want to walk. I could just imagine the landscaping being destroyed by strollers and people making paths where there is none

Disney may not have direct control but they do provide input and what they say is given great deal of weight by the city.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Disney may not have direct control but they do provide input and what they say is given great deal of weight by the city.

True, but Disney is building the new area as part of the deal with the City, and closing down the current crosswalk next to the Park Vue Inn does help make their own Hotels look better. Plus add better and faster access for guests trying to get to the parks overall due to the traffic flow improvements, and I don't see Disney saying no to building the fence and closing the crosswalk.

I think the key is how much influence the few Hotels owners on Harbor near the new bridge can make in the city review process. We know some like HoJo's, Grand Legacy, and the Quality Inn will be favor of it, so they can claim closer access.

 

[Indiana Scott]

I never said Disney would be against a fence.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I should add, Disney pays for the CM Shuttle service, and the Toy Story Lot, so anything (such as the removal of the current crosswalk and making folks use the bridge or a different crosswalk) is beneficial to them in reduce costs by reducing traffic times between Manchester and the south end of Disney Way. Also making sure CM's get to work on time and not waiting on Harbor in traffic.

 

[Ismael68]

I understand the reasoning for people to stay at the hotels across Disney on harbor and I'm guessing that it's distance. Other than that I really don't see why people
Would stay.
The hotels properties are crowded, the buildings old and the price point for what is offered high. Similar hotels around the block have a lower price range and those a block away sometimes even have lower price ranges and shuttles are available to take people to park. I have also found hotels near the convention center which are much newer or renovated with the same price range as these older hotels/motels.

Makes me wonder if eventually some of those hotels will eventually decide to sell and either an adjoining property buys them out and expands with a remodel or Disney starts to slowly buy as they become avaialble

 

[Indiana Scott]

I understand the reasoning for people to stay at the hotels across Disney on harbor and I'm guessing that it's distance. Other than that I really don't see why people
Would stay.
The hotels properties are crowded, the buildings old and the price point for what is offered high. Similar hotels around the block have a lower price range and those a block away sometimes even have lower price ranges and shuttles are available to take people to park. I have also found hotels near the convention center which are much newer or renovated with the same price range as these older hotels/motels.

Makes me wonder if eventually some of those hotels will eventually decide to sell and either an adjoining property buys them out and expands with a remodel or Disney starts to slowly buy as they become avaialble

I don't think you've spent much time at any of those hotels because your discriptions bear no resemblance to the actual state of those properties.
The Disneyland hotels are mostly "old" as well but they've been renovated - just like the hotels arcross the street.
The hotels I have stayed at have all been updated, grounds nicely kept and everything in good repair. They are not run down or lacking in any way. They probably are a bit more expensive than hotels farther away and that makes sense (location X3). I will pay a premium to be close and the fact that they provide a good quality free breakfast is a plus as well and saves us time over finding a (crowded) restaraunt elsewhere.
It takes 5 to 7 minutes for us to get to our rooms across the street and you would wait that long for a hot, crowded shuttle.
As for being crowded, the local hotels are no more so than any other hotel and somewhat better than hotels at Disneyworld IMO (which are crazy crowded at meal times).
So in short, the hotels across the street are very nice because they do well and can afford to be.
You should try them!

 

[agamble]

I understand the reasoning for people to stay at the hotels across Disney on harbor and I'm guessing that it's distance. Other than that I really don't see why people
Would stay.
The hotels properties are crowded, the buildings old and the price point for what is offered high. Similar hotels around the block have a lower price range and those a block away sometimes even have lower price ranges and shuttles are available to take people to park. I have also found hotels near the convention center which are much newer or renovated with the same price range as these older hotels/motels.

We've stayed at a number of hotels in the area and I would say I agree with Indiana Scott. As I mentioned in a previous post I do believe the biggest selling point for the hotels is their location. But they have been renovated, and they're not all super expensive. We stayed at the Desert Inn and Suites during our last trip because it was only $89+taxes and fees per night. We could have saved on the fees by staying at a hotel on Katella, but we decided it was worth a bit more for the location. It also happens to be in better refurbished condition than the other hotel we were looking at (Quality Inn on Katella across from PPH parking area). We personally would not pay a lot more for the location, but many are willing. The Desert Inn does not have a "good quality breakfast" though, but it is better than it was the first time we stayed there.

When looking for a place to stay we look at price, location, additional fees, and breakfast offerings. Then we weigh our options and pick what seems best for the trip. Next year we're staying at Dolphin's Cove through my mom's timeshare. Location is not great, though we can take Toy Story busses, but the price is the best possible as we don't have to pay anything. No free breakfast, but we'll have a kitchen to store our own breakfast foods which is a great plus. So in that case location lost. If we were going without my mom we likely would be trying to book in the next month or two at Desert Inn to get a good rate on a close room.

 

[Ismael68]

Well I guess it's good to know that they have been renovated. The last time I stayed in one of them I found them a bit unpleasant. Very crowded, noisy and I know they consider them hotels but they felt more like motels stuck in the 70's.
Last few times I got lucky and ended up instead staying at spring hill suites for 95 a night and the time before at Portofino for 100 and found them much more comfortable
Of course it's usually just two of us and our main concern is not having to put up with hearing people or cars outside our hotel rooms so that might also be a reason I look for hotels with towers and rooms at the end of hallways. Also never consider checking on breakfast offerings there, I am not a fan of breakfast offerings in most hotels in the United States. I find them all to be extremely overwhelming compared to hotels everywhere else in the world. It's amazing that even the cheapest of motels like motel 6 can charge 80 dollars a night and all you get is coffee then you go places like Vietnam, India, Korea or most any other non US hotel and you pay the same or just slightly more for a three and four star hotel and you get a full breakfast that can keep you occupied all day long just trying out everything they offer lol