New Fastpass Privileges Coming?

[Bob O]

The single rider line doesnt affect your wait time in line, but if people are going to complain about fairness is it really fair that i just walk right onto a line that has a posted 1 1/2 hr wait??? So thats ok but me paying for that privilege is some how wrong?? Those peole could be taking up the same single seats and wouldnt impact your wait time.
If you have a billion doallars and want to hit people with shovels im sure you would have no trouble getting people to agree too being hit with a shovel if they are paid the right amount!!!
.

 

[All Aboard]

The fairness issue to me is the impact on the other guests. And single rider line has no impact and premium fastpass has one.

You missed the point of my shovel example. My billion dollars wouldn't be going to the people being hit, just like none of your premium fastpass payment will be going to the families forced to stand in a longer line at Splash Mountain because of it.

In my example, I pay the government for a permit, I get the pleasure of knocking folks over the head and the folks get the burden of being knocked.

The premium Fastpass has the same effect. You pay Disney, you get the pleasure, the rest of the guests get the burden.

 

[PKS44]

BobO-
I usually enjoy your posts, but after reading your comments on this thread I think you need to change the line under your name from the Voice of Reason to the Voice that won't listen to reason...or maybe just the voice that won't listen...your responses to what others have said are devoid of any logic or reason and as gcurling points out above you totally miss the points being made...sorry-but you need to step back from your enthusiasm for finding a way to the front of the line and realize you have let your desires trump any reasonable discussion here.

Paul

 

[Another Voice]

Actually the single rider line is a benefit to everyone else in line since it increases the ride’s throughput. By taking the single riders out of the main line and putting them in seats that would have gone empty otherwise – it reduces the wait time for everyone. Hardly unfair at all.

The biggest problem Disney is going to have with all their premium services is that very quickly “benefits for that group” become “entitlements for my group”. If you read the DVC thread just moved over here, there are people in Florida already demanding they receive the same “premium”. And there’s already a storm out here with Disneyland annual passholders. And once they “premium” FastPass is spread around so many groups that it’s no longer special enough another new benefit will have to be created (like the golden FPs).

Walt’s “treat everyone like a V.I.P.” policy worked because it locked in people’s expectations to a certain level. The guest knew exactly how things worked and expected no less – and no more – than that. Disney’s new premium “you get what you pay for” approach is only going to create an unending spiral upward for those willing to pay the money and an unending spiral downward for those that don’t.

 

[Barb]

Disney’s new premium “you get what you pay for” approach is only going to create an unending spiral upward for those willing to pay the money and an unending spiral downward for those that don’t.

My concern is for those that can't afford to pay the money.

 

[raidermatt]

Ok, after some on and off again pondering, as well as a hit or two of egg nog, I'm going ot have to backtrack a bit from my original statement where I said I didn't have a problem conceptually with the premium FP concept.

gcurling's points about premium FP's negative impact on other guests are pretty straighforward.

Its an ill-conceived idea. On top of that, the initial plans are being poorly executed as well, which just makes things worse, but that topic is already being kicked around in another thread...

Now, that said, I also have to say that Early Entry is a problem as well, though the negative impact is much smaller than the FP situation, and the postives are probably large enough to overcome the negatives.

EE does result in a direct negative to other guests. When non EE guests enter the park, others are already in line for attractions. But, again, that's a pretty small negative compared to the possibility of not being able to get a FP for Splash on a muggy Summer day, but it is a negative nonetheless.

The real problem here is that Disney isn't offering the public enough of a reason to stay in their on-site rooms. They simply could not do it without EE, and apparently even that is not enough. Premium FPs are also now needed.

Rather than focus on things that will increase the value of ALL on-site rooms without hurthing other guests, they are looking for the easy way out.

Perhaps if they looked at things like improving on-site transportation, in-room package delivery, overall service, and focusing on THE SHOW, they wouldn't have to offer premium FPs in order to maintain their room rates.

 

[raidermatt]

(and probably California)

Fyi, at DL, SoCal residents are considered locals for discount purposes. Us NoCal folks are no different than somebody from New Hampshire.

To say that Premium FastPass is any less biased or prejudiced than Disney offering Florida residents-only discounted passes, dining experience options, and a variety of other discounts which, unlike the occasional postcard special, are not temporary marketing campaigns but permanent moves.

The problem with the Premium FPs is that it DIRECTLY hurts the other guests in the park at the same time. Whether or not somebody else got a discount on their ticket or lunch has no impact on my ability to get a Splash FP or eat my lunch.

That's not to say I think its a good business decision to focus so much discounting on locals, and to define locals by state boundaries vs. distance, but its just that its a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[Barb]

The fact that Disney does favor the FL resident is an ever increasing annoyance. I would think they would want to encourage attendence from all states in the Union. But then again, what do I know???

 

[DisneyKidds]

Scoop - The whole Florida resident thing is a different ballgame IMHO.

Florida resident discounts (as arbitrarily unfair as I agree they are) only affect people's ability to be able to get to WDW at all. However, once we are all there, we are all on equal footing when it comes to the theme park experience. Or applied to a restaurant, the Florida resident program might make it cheaper for one person to eat there than another. However, the dining experience is the same.

The fact that a Florida resident gets a cheaper pass doesn't mean I have to wait in line any longer than that person once we are in the park. The fact that that Florida resident pays 10% less for their meal doesn't mean they get a dedicated waiter while me and all the other non residents share one.

The reason people "avoid" the 'Florida Resident Prejudice' is because it has no real bearing on our experience. Maybe it affects the cost of our experience, but the experience itself is the same.

 

[raidermatt]

...but the Disney Dining Experience does create a resident vs. non-resident caste system in the parks...

To me there is not alot of difference between the guest who paid the extra $ to FastPass vs. standby and the guest who paid the extra $ to ride Space Mountain rather than the Carousel.

The existence of a restaurant caste system is a discussion we've had before, and my opinion is that it does exist. However, I just think its one of those things that is too far engrained into our culture for even Disney to buck. If you want "table service", you're just going to pay more than you do for "counter service".

Giving discounts to FL residents for "fancier" restaurants does contribute to the system, but whether those discounts exist or not, the system still will.

The tickets seem to be a similar situation. If I understand correctly, all amusement parks were "pay for play", and Walt went along with that concept. In a perfect world he wouldn't have, in my opinion, but things are never perfect. His concept was radical enough without instituting an entirely different pricing structures as well.

But two things makes the the proposed "FP Caste System" a more serious offense:

1- It benefits the "upper level guest" TO THE DIRECT DETRIMENT of the "lower level guest". Every extra FP that goes to the "rich" is one less that was available to the "poor".

2- The implementation as it currently stands wouldn't even give some the opportunity to "buy" the extra FPs. While the whole system is probably a mistake, this just makes it worse.

 

[Bob O]

Barb, my concern isnt about people who cant pay the money, my concern is about my families enjoyment at the park and getting our money's worth out of the visit!!!!
And i dont cry over spilled milk and play the martyr card because disney offers residents a better deal on park admission than they offer me who doesnt live in fla/ca and cant get the deals they can.
If their is a marketplace for a premimum fastpass then disney should offer it to those willing to pay for this prviliege, but should limit the amount they sell to a manageable number like Universal Studios does in both CA and FLA. Disney could devise a system where they would develop a new revenue stream and also where the impact on other guests could be limited, but some guests would suffer under any plan, just like guests who dont stay on site and get EE suffer or those not knowlegable about the FP system now currently suffer. There is no system that can be developed where some one wont claim they are a victim of something. Disney has always had a vip system and there is nothing wrong if disney does want to give those willing to pay a chance to avoid lines to do so.
If people go to the park at certain times of the year there is little trouble over any of these issues anyway so people who dont like lines could go when the park isnt as busy!!! Or is that also unfair because some people can go when the park is slower and some cant???

 

[All Aboard]

Scoop's got a point, I do think there is an impact, but probably quite small. There are probably some Fl resident seasonal passholders in line at Space Mountain in front of you that would not be there if they weren't able to get that pass for just $170. Perhaps if they had to pay $350 for a regular annual (is that how much they are?) they would have chosen not to make the purchase.

If only the regular annual pass were available to me, I'd (of course) buy it and go to WDW just as often as I do now. The difference between $4 a day (roughly what I pay now) and $8 a day wouldn't disuade me travelling to WDW.

The A-E ticket as an example is more akin to a family only able to purchase a one day pass v. the Family B buying the 7 day Ultimate Park Hopper.

p.s., the dining discount is 20% and only applies to full service restaurants (and food courts at the all stars which don't have full service). It's not free, it costs $60, but is recouped after spending $300 (which happens fast.)

btw, did I mention that it was 80 degrees today? Or did I mention that I had lunch outdoors on Ocean Drive on South Beach today?

 

[Bob O]

Actually the weather was unusally nice for my city this time of year, highs in the upper 40's!!!
And at least at Peco's Bill they have a guy making nice sauteed mushrooms!!!(my wife loves them so we always eat meals there!!!)
The martyr card is still in development by disney, maybe it will come out when the Disney Club ends and so do my discounts!!!

 

[ohanafamily]

Isn't the Florida Resident discount based on a deal that they made with the state for a tax break? I seem to recall somewhere that Florida Taxes subsidizes some of WDW so residents can get this price break. If they want the FP pass, they should not get a discount on that portion of the ticket.

Personally, I think that the FP, if made available, should be a strictly $$$ thing. If they want to incorporate it into a package fine, but don't only limit it to the package. I also think it should be priced quite high. One other thing, I think that they should adjust the "Stand By" line so that it moves a little quicker, especially at Test track....

I am a PAP holder, and a DVC member. It will annoy me to no end knowing that this is available, but not to me.

The other plan, for specific guests staying at onsite resorts to get more passes than other people is a less workable solution, but at least as a DVC member I can use my points to stay at the premium resorts.

Right now, as I see it, only if you book your room a certain way will you be able to get the pass. This is unfair and unacceptable....

 

[Another Voice]

"I seem to recall somewhere that Florida Taxes subsidizes some of WDW so residents can get this price break."

Disney in Florida gets sooooo many tax breaks, but none of them are so citizens can get in on the cheap. If someone actually said that then I've found the winner for The Greatest Spin of 2002.

 

[ohanafamily]

It was a CM at the TTC when I was buying my AP 3 years ago.

 

[SnackyStacky]

I'm fighting a losing battle on the other thread regarding this topic, so here I come again!

You can talk about markets and socialism, capitalism, communism...or any other ISM you'd like to throw around, but we're not talking about the real world. We're talking about DISNEY World.

Which was meant as an escape, where, as was said, everybody is treated equally.

NOW, in comes this system where someone can buy their way to the front of the line? How magical. That takes you completely out of the magic, and plops you RIGHT back in the world.

Regardless of the tangents this has taken, that completely takes away from the spirit that the whole park had when it was built.

 

[ohanafamily]

Dearest Snacky, you aren't loosing the battle on the other thread, but it has a slightly different focus. While I was crafting a reply to you on it something came to mind that changes the discussion on this thread a little....The FastPasses are set to give out a limitted number per hour. Once those are given out, it moves later and later in the day for the return time. This means that the number of passes given out should not change unless the system is majorly overhauled.

The Net Affect is that people will not be able to get the fast passes after they are given out. The more people who have the UFP, the faster they will be given out. Even the people with the UFP will have to wait in the same stand by line if they come in late!!!!!!!!!

This changes the effect on the rest of the guests to more of a "why can't I get a fastpass, they always seem to be out?" It also changes the strategy for using the FP to getting to the parks very early and get them before they are all gone. The UFP will kill the fastpass system IMHO!!!!!

 

[Bob O]

Walt Disney is the real world as is any other business. And disney has always treated different types of guests in a different manner. If we are going to whine about so-called fairness then we should get rid of the whole fastpass system because for people who dont know how to use it or are familiar with it are also being treated unfairly, so the only answer is to get rid of the system all together and have no vips at all and make everyone, including the handicapped wait in the same line as everybody else. The handicapped and supposedly handicapped and their families already get treatment abvoe and beyond fastpass's so in the interest of fairness that should also be done away with so we are treated in excatly the same manner!!!

 

[PKS44]

I will try one more time but as I said before it appears Bob O is not listening- this idea that the current fastpass system is unfair because some people don't know how to use it is just patently illogical, ridiculous and absurd. The same logic would be applicable to so many things---
the Internet- STOP all email and internet commerce..it is not fair because some people do not know how to use it.

Stop all computer use, word processor use because some people do not know how to use those.

Stop bike riding, motorcycle riding, driving cars, some people don't know how to use those.

Stop letting people cook gourmet meals, some people have not learned how to do that.

Stop all hobbies that everyone has not learned how to do...it is so unfair that some people are enjoying themselves learning new skills and talents and I am not...

Stop letting people get college educations and advanced degrees because some people don't learn as much as others....etc. etc.

Bob O Bob O how can you read this thread and still persist with this ridiculous line of "reason?" (nonreason really)

Paul