new annual passes - short term thinking from Disney?

[AlanBradley]

A question I have that I didn't hear discussed on the podcast or here - Is using an AP to catch two trips really the intended purpose of the AP? Or has that just been a longtime hack to save money. To me an AP should be offered to people who can routinely and regularly/spontaneously, go to the parks. I don't think the intended point was for out of state/country/continent people to have them for their annual vacation plans and use them twice within the year for 10 consecutive days each trip. It seems to me this hack is exactly what they are trying to address and correct, and I get that. i don't like it, but I get it.

100%. "too big to fail" - seems like that is their attitude of late, it will be interesting to see if this short term gain leads to any long terms pain. I'm a new DVC blue card holder and I don't feel like I'm getting a very good value anymore. We'll hang on to it and we'll go, but I think instead of the 2-3 trips a year that we've been averaging for the last 5 years, it'll now be every other. So when people say "oh yeah, they'll still go", sure they might, but it might be a whole lot less, especially with the AP prices.

We are newer to DVC as well, but we still feel there is very good value in it. Looking at the rack rates for a hotel room at WDW these days shows just how much value there is to repeat visitors like us.

Has anyone spoken to someone who went on their first Disney trip in the last 12 months? I’d be curious what their thoughts were.

Or anyone on these boards who went for first time? Although, this is a fan site so sometimes hard to get fair evaluation of the first timers here.

I know a couple that went for their first time just prior to the pandemic and they are absolutely itching to get back and are planing to go next year. I can tell you they do not seem to care about past value or cost relative to today, they just want to scratch their Disney itch.

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me the really negative attitudes toward the new pricing structures seems to come from long time supporters who saw better benefits and prices in years past. Which I understand completely. But as mentioned before I don't think that has any relevance for a first timer or relatively new visitor. Disney has never been cheap and never will be.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I think the point thats being missed, in this thread at least, is that Disney as a company and brand PREVIOUSLY prided itself on being a company that at least was good at FAKING their love of their biggest fans. And the people who bought into that are the one that are the most upset right now. Theres a sense of more than just a price increase and loss of services. It feels like a betrayal. And there is probably some truth to that fact that Disney was more generous to its fans in the past. But as mentioned a million times Disney is a business and the CURRENT administration is running it that way with no pretense of having a loving connection to their fanbase. We know you want it. We know you'll pay for it. If you wont, that family over there sure the hell will.

So..

1. Yes its a business and its blatantly being run as such now. We have to get use to it or move on.
2. The sense of loss is real because it WASN'T always like this. So we should be careful not to discount the fans who were around when the magic WAS real, because it has now certainly been lost.

 

[jknc]

I think the point thats being missed, in this thread at least, is that Disney as a company and brand PREVIOUSLY prided itself on being a company that at least was good at FAKING their love of their biggest fans. And the people who bought into that are the one that are the most upset right now. Theres a sense of more than just a price increase and loss of services. It feels like a betrayal. And there is probably some truth to that fact that Disney was more generous to its fans in the past. But as mentioned a million times Disney is a business and the CURRENT administration is running it that way with no pretense of having a loving connection to their fanbase. We know you want it. We know you'll pay for it. If you wont, that family over there sure the hell will.

So..

1. Yes its a business and its blatantly being run as such now. We have to get use to it or move on.
2. The sense of loss is real because it WASN'T always like this. So we should be careful not to discount the fans who were around when the magic WAS real, because it has now certainly been lost.

please allow me to repeat a question I asked in a different thread, which received zero reply’s.

Not directed to anyone specifically but for anyone who wants to answer.

As an AP holder, how do you feel valued by Disney?

 

[jknc]

The last first-timers I conversed with visited in early 2019. Their take? Too crowded, too expensive, food was terrible.

Two adults and 1 child. They’re not itching to get back.

 

[Boski]

I wonder if with an iconic brand like Disney word of mouth doesn't count for as much as we might think. Although I have recommended Disney vacations to a few people who are now all hooked - I am unsure if that makes a significant impact to their turnstiles. They have the analytics to back these decisions, which tells me they don't feel it to be an issue.

I think its far to early to tell but I agree they've had a good look at the analytics and they've made their play. I personally don't think its the right one but time will tell.

 

[jknc]

I think its far to early to tell but I agree they've had a good look at the analytics and they've made their play. I personally don't think its the right one but time will tell.

No question. Those magic bands were great investment. No telling how valuable the data was from them.

 

[notatallmagic]

please allow me to repeat a question I asked in a different thread, which received zero reply’s.

Not directed to anyone specifically but for anyone who wants to answer.

As an AP holder, how do you feel valued by Disney?

I can tell a few stories about how we WERE valued by Disney (which made us repeat visitors/AP holders to the tune of almost 20 trips in the past decade from out of state). I can also contrast that with the recent "loss of magic" we are sad about.

1) When my kids were 5 and 2, we took them to Disney for the first time. My exH was an unkind man, and he was behaving terribly - loudly and publicly - at Epcot. My daughter was 5, and dressed as Mulan, her favorite princess. We stood in line to meet Mulan, and it was a quiet park day, and Mulan spent over an HOUR with just my daughter, walking around China, letting her try on her Mulan shoes, joking about MuShu, chatting, hugging, and just being wonderfully kind to a very sad little girl. It was so overwhelmingly magical - it is literally one of my now-grown daughter's most amazing childhood memories; it brought me to tears then and still does as I type this. And when we returned to Epcot, about five years later, the SAME Mulan was at Epcot, and she remembered my daughter. They spent about ten minutes just talking and catching up. Pure joy and magic for a wounded little girl's heart.

2) A few year's later, about the time they were first rolling out Magic Bands, I "hosted" a large family group trip with about 15 of us to Disney. And we all had Magic Bands, and none of them worked - the entire trip. I spent hours at Guest Services, trying to sort out all the bills, costs, and issues. It was a total nightmare, and a miserable experience. About two days after I got home, there was an email in my inbox, providing a special number and a code for 3 days worth of tickets for 4 and two nights in a value resort to say "sorry" for our trainwreck of a trip. THAT was magical - and that was the beginning of our regular Disney trip decade. Of course mistakes happen, but Disney used to be wonderful at saying sorry when they did.

3) A few years after that, we had tried to book a "Princess" session for my daughter - she was aging out of the ability to do that, and when we showed up for the session, despite having our confirmation, they were either overbooked or there was some kind of error, and she couldn't have that experience. She was super disappointed, but we enjoyed the rest of our trip. About a week after we got home, a HUGE box was delivered with an autographed "Sorry" photo from MIckey; a Mickey Darth Vadar ear/hat for my son, and a set of little girl's nail polish and perfume and a stuffed Minnie. My daughter still has that bottle of nail polish from MIckey.

4) Maybe four years ago, my son had saved up his chore money (about $15) for a Disney souvineer. We had just finished riding Star Tours, and he was browsing in the shop; he LOVED Porgs. The stuff Porg was just a little more than he had, so he sadly put it back on the shelf; and as we were walking out, a Cast Member stopped us and handed us a bag - with the Porg in it - a gift from Mickey! She must have overheard our conversation. He is 15, and that Porg still sits on his bed.

My family has had our share of tough life stuff. Disney was our happy place; where people were kind, and unexpected good things happened. That's why we went. We could just drink in the beauty and the goodness, and feel safe and "escape" from our real world - even for a few days.

Over the past three years though, it is not the same Disney When Disney makes a mistake/error or offers less than Disney service; they are now regularly flippant, cold, and unapologetic. More recently, we booked a room specifically at a resort with a hot tub - it was a "bribe" to my now 15 year old for his grades - and when we got to the resort, the hot tub was "closed for maintenance" for our entire stay. When I asked at the front desk when the hot tub might be repaired, there wasn't even an "I'm so sorry" - despite our room request included being "close to the hot tub". When I asked if maybe we could visit another resort just for one day to enjoy a hot tub, the response was a very rude, "We don't do that." Well, you used to do nice things; just apparently not anymore.

This summer, we had requested a mid stay (8 night visit) floor cleaning due to a dust allergy - and a sharps container for medical waste. Neither was done/given, and when I asked at the front desk on two separate occasions, I was told that they had staffing difficulties and "excessive requests" could not always be accomodated. It was not a pleasant interaction.

I've posted before about the pretty significant DAS issue we had this summer; when I did ask to speak with someone about that very serious situation, the Cast Member literally rolled her eyes and laughed. Glad you think my kid losing conciousness on a ride was funny. I was told "they were experiencing staffing issues" - not really reassuring. When I asked if they could possibly refund the balance of my Annual Passes since they could not provide a safe experience for my family with their current staffing challenges - I was told I would be receiving a follow up telephone call - which of course never came.

So, Disney USED to be a very special, magical, memorable place. I wish it still was - and for anyone who DOES get to experience that, I'm happy for you. I really miss it.

 

[AlanBradley]

The last first-timers I conversed with visited in early 2019. Their take? Too crowded, too expensive, food was terrible.

Two adults and 1 child. They’re not itching to get back.

I completely agree that the parks have gotten too crowded - raising AP prices and Genie encouraging crowd circulation will hopefully alleviate some of that congestion.

Food quality is so subjective especially considering the varied demographics that frequent WDW. Some people consider pizza egg rolls a well rounded meal or better yet just a ‘snack’ - I find them utterly disgusting. I think that food quality and variety is being slowly addressed but Disney will not want to alienate consumers. A quinoa and salmon power bowl isn’t likely to please the masses.

Just look at their newest resort. It’s no coincidence it’s the most nicely appointed, with one of the nicest table service Restaurants at WDW.

It’s understandable that people find it too expensive as well. They are clearly aiming there sights on a more affluent demographic.

 

[jknc]

I can tell a few stories about how we WERE valued by Disney (which made us repeat visitors/AP holders to the tune of almost 20 trips in the past decade from out of state). I can also contrast that with the recent "loss of magic" we are sad about.

1) When my kids were 5 and 2, we took them to Disney for the first time. My exH was an unkind man, and he was behaving terribly - loudly and publicly - at Epcot. My daughter was 5, and dressed as Mulan, her favorite princess. We stood in line to meet Mulan, and it was a quiet park day, and Mulan spent over an HOUR with just my daughter, walking around China, letting her try on her Mulan shoes, joking about MuShu, chatting, hugging, and just being wonderfully kind to a very sad little girl. It was so overwhelmingly magical - it is literally one of my now-grown daughter's most amazing childhood memories; it brought me to tears then and still does as I type this. And when we returned to Epcot, about five years later, the SAME Mulan was at Epcot, and she remembered my daughter. They spent about ten minutes just talking and catching up. Pure joy and magic for a wounded little girl's heart.

2) A few year's later, about the time they were first rolling out Magic Bands, I "hosted" a large family group trip with about 15 of us to Disney. And we all had Magic Bands, and none of them worked - the entire trip. I spent hours at Guest Services, trying to sort out all the bills, costs, and issues. It was a total nightmare, and a miserable experience. About two days after I got home, there was an email in my inbox, providing a special number and a code for 3 days worth of tickets for 4 and two nights in a value resort to say "sorry" for our trainwreck of a trip. THAT was magical - and that was the beginning of our regular Disney trip decade. Of course mistakes happen, but Disney used to be wonderful at saying sorry when they did.

3) A few years after that, we had tried to book a "Princess" session for my daughter - she was aging out of the ability to do that, and when we showed up for the session, despite having our confirmation, they were either overbooked or there was some kind of error, and she couldn't have that experience. She was super disappointed, but we enjoyed the rest of our trip. About a week after we got home, a HUGE box was delivered with an autographed "Sorry" photo from MIckey; a Mickey Darth Vadar ear/hat for my son, and a set of little girl's nail polish and perfume and a stuffed Minnie. My daughter still has that bottle of nail polish from MIckey.

4) Maybe four years ago, my son had saved up his chore money (about $15) for a Disney souvineer. We had just finished riding Star Tours, and he was browsing in the shop; he LOVED Porgs. The stuff Porg was just a little more than he had, so he sadly put it back on the shelf; and as we were walking out, a Cast Member stopped us and handed us a bag - with the Porg in it - a gift from Mickey! She must have overheard our conversation. He is 15, and that Porg still sits on his bed.

My family has had our share of tough life stuff. Disney was our happy place; where people were kind, and unexpected good things happened. That's why we went. We could just drink in the beauty and the goodness, and feel safe and "escape" from our real world - even for a few days.

Over the past three years though, it is not the same Disney When Disney makes a mistake/error or offers less than Disney service; they are now regularly flippant, cold, and unapologetic. More recently, we booked a room specifically at a resort with a hot tub - it was a "bribe" to my now 15 year old for his grades - and when we got to the resort, the hot tub was "closed for maintenance" for our entire stay. When I asked at the front desk when the hot tub might be repaired, there wasn't even an "I'm so sorry" - despite our room request included being "close to the hot tub". When I asked if maybe we could visit another resort just for one day to enjoy a hot tub, the response was a very rude, "We don't do that." Well, you used to do nice things; just apparently not anymore.

This summer, we had requested a mid stay (8 night visit) floor cleaning due to a dust allergy - and a sharps container for medical waste. Neither was done/given, and when I asked at the front desk on two separate occasions, I was told that they had staffing difficulties and "excessive requests" could not always be accomodated. It was not a pleasant interaction.

I've posted before about the pretty significant DAS issue we had this summer; when I did ask to speak with someone about that very serious situation, the Cast Member literally rolled her eyes and laughed. Glad you think my kid losing conciousness on a ride was funny. I was told "they were experiencing staffing issues" - not really reassuring. When I asked if they could possibly refund the balance of my Annual Passes since they could not provide a safe experience for my family with their current staffing challenges - I was told I would be receiving a follow up telephone call - which of course never came.

So, Disney USED to be a very special, magical, memorable place. I wish it still was - and for anyone who DOES get to experience that, I'm happy for you. I really miss it.

thanks for posting this.

This really made me reflect on our trips and made me think about some great memories with my kids. Thank you.

I don’t expect any magic when we go, but we’ve certainly been lucky to have many magical moments. Sadly I can’t recall 1 single magical moment from our most recent trip.

 

[jknc]

I completely agree that the parks have gotten too crowded - raising AP prices and Genie encouraging crowd circulation will hopefully alleviate some of that congestion.

Food quality is so subjective especially considering the varied demographics that frequent WDW. Some people consider pizza egg rolls a well rounded meal or better yet just a ‘snack’ - I find them utterly disgusting. I think that food quality and variety is being slowly addressed but Disney will not want to alienate consumers. A quinoa and salmon power bowl isn’t likely to please the masses.

Just look at their newest resort. It’s no coincidence it’s the most nicely appointed, with one of the nicest table service Restaurants at WDW.

It’s understandable that people find it too expensive as well. They are clearly aiming there sights on a more affluent demographic.

in fairness to Disney I did my best to prep them on tolerable food options pre-trip

they followed none of my advice

 

[RamblingMad]

It’s understandable that people find it too expensive as well. They are clearly aiming there sights on a more affluent demographic.

The problem is that high end Disney isn't really all that high end other than price. Of course, I'll keep buying Disney stock since Disney fans are cult like.

 

[Boski]

It’s understandable that people find it too expensive as well. They are clearly aiming there sights on a more affluent demographic.

While offering a lesser product.

 

[RamblingMad]

While offering a lesser product.

It's a bait and switch. Come and pay Fairmont and 4 Seasons pricing and get at best a Hyatt experience.

Come and pay over a $100 a day to get in, so that you can wait in line for an hour or more or pay an additional $20 to ride that ride in 30 minutes. I can already imagine parents with a kid about to hit melt down scrambling on their phone to buy lightning passes for a ride just before nap time. Genie+ and LL is going to make Disney bank, especially for the crowd that tries to do a lot in the morning and rest at the resort in the afternoon.

There is no way Disney is trying to control crowds. They're going to need the long standby wait times to push people to use Genie+ and LL.

Why would anyone have trouble buying annual passes for that future experience? I think, it boils down to limited substitutions for Disney's age demographic. Universal is definitely for older kids, so it's not a direct competitor. And I didn't really see any kids in Disney's age demographic at any of the NPs I visited a week ago on trails.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Remember when Disney asked what was Magical about your stay ? What Cast Member made it Magical ?
Now they don’t care - they just want your money
I said before they established they link to the heartstrings now they are ripping it
So sad

 

[Leight19]

I’m not sure I agree Disney is trying to price people out per say. Yes the price of annual passes went up but the biggest increase was for dvc/Florida residents for platinum. You could argue they are pricing out Florida residents or taking advantage of dvc owners who are “captive” audience but out of state didn’t go up much.

Most of the changes I’ve seen lately seem less as pricing out people and more as making changes to get more profit form hidden fees when people don’t notice benefits are missing until they get there and have to pay for add ons. If they truly wanted to price people out keeping the benefits and flat increasing the price for rooms and tickets would be a more direct and transparent way.

 

[jknc]

While offering a lesser product.

Why is it a lesser product?

SWGE and Pandora and incredible additions.

If covid never happened we’d be talking about Tron, Guardians, Epcot update etc as well.
I can’t fault Disney for construction delays.

However, if pricing trends continue in the coming years without significant new attractions added it’s impossible IMHO to justify the costs.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Why is it a lesser product?

SWGE and Pandora and incredible additions.

If covid never happened we’d be talking about Tron, Guardians, Epcot update etc as well.
I can’t fault Disney for construction delays.

However, if pricing trends continue in the coming years without significant new attractions added it’s impossible IMHO to justify the costs.

I think that was referring to the resorts not the parks.

 

[AlanBradley]

While offering a lesser product.

Lesser to?

Universal is definitely for older kids, so it's not a direct competitor.

Completely agree with that. Every time I hear someone say “time to move my money up the road to universal” I want to scream. Even Pete in this episode of DisUnplugged: “what’s our Universal Facebook group?”. Oh yeah, there isn’t one because no one gives a…

Universal Orlando is phenomenal and Diagon Alley is probably the most immersive land in any theme park period. But they just can’t compete overall. Maybe in 20 or so years but they are a very long way off being a destination to spend 8 days straight. And as mentioned they provide little to no appeal for younger kids and never will be able to. The Disney IP catalogue cannot be beat.

I think that was referring to the resorts not the parks.

That makes sense to a point. But to be fair Disney did plan to build an incredibly high end luxury hotel in Anaheim that wasn’t able to go ahead on account of an unsupportive city council. They are looking to provide more luxurious offerings, they just aren’t there yet.

 

[kbelle8995]

i Disagree about whether Universal can compete. Harry Potter is still so viable, I’m a librarian and those books are still hard to find on shelves. Those kids will want to go visit Diagon Alley and Hogwarts. Plus if the rumors of them adding Nintendo to their parks are true, that holds much excitement from a certain fan base level. Jurassic Park still has a hold on popular culture that I still don’t quite get. Plus Universal still has some Marvel
Plus the Universal Ap is just a better value. More discounts and they just had passholder appreciation month. If we are stating Disney is a business, it does mean that people will look to the competition for more bang for the buck.

I go to Universal because I like taking my wallet where I feel my business is appreciated. For example I switched phone company, due the fact that the only customers they seemed to care about was the iPhone users.

I adored Disney for decades. I just Decided after awhile that enough is enough. Disney catalog and ip property is a monster but they are not unbeatable.

 

[John and Theresa]

I can tell a few stories about how we WERE valued by Disney (which made us repeat visitors/AP holders to the tune of almost 20 trips in the past decade from out of state). I can also contrast that with the recent "loss of magic" we are sad about.

1) When my kids were 5 and 2, we took them to Disney for the first time. My exH was an unkind man, and he was behaving terribly - loudly and publicly - at Epcot. My daughter was 5, and dressed as Mulan, her favorite princess. We stood in line to meet Mulan, and it was a quiet park day, and Mulan spent over an HOUR with just my daughter, walking around China, letting her try on her Mulan shoes, joking about MuShu, chatting, hugging, and just being wonderfully kind to a very sad little girl. It was so overwhelmingly magical - it is literally one of my now-grown daughter's most amazing childhood memories; it brought me to tears then and still does as I type this. And when we returned to Epcot, about five years later, the SAME Mulan was at Epcot, and she remembered my daughter. They spent about ten minutes just talking and catching up. Pure joy and magic for a wounded little girl's heart.

2) A few year's later, about the time they were first rolling out Magic Bands, I "hosted" a large family group trip with about 15 of us to Disney. And we all had Magic Bands, and none of them worked - the entire trip. I spent hours at Guest Services, trying to sort out all the bills, costs, and issues. It was a total nightmare, and a miserable experience. About two days after I got home, there was an email in my inbox, providing a special number and a code for 3 days worth of tickets for 4 and two nights in a value resort to say "sorry" for our trainwreck of a trip. THAT was magical - and that was the beginning of our regular Disney trip decade. Of course mistakes happen, but Disney used to be wonderful at saying sorry when they did.

3) A few years after that, we had tried to book a "Princess" session for my daughter - she was aging out of the ability to do that, and when we showed up for the session, despite having our confirmation, they were either overbooked or there was some kind of error, and she couldn't have that experience. She was super disappointed, but we enjoyed the rest of our trip. About a week after we got home, a HUGE box was delivered with an autographed "Sorry" photo from MIckey; a Mickey Darth Vadar ear/hat for my son, and a set of little girl's nail polish and perfume and a stuffed Minnie. My daughter still has that bottle of nail polish from MIckey.

4) Maybe four years ago, my son had saved up his chore money (about $15) for a Disney souvineer. We had just finished riding Star Tours, and he was browsing in the shop; he LOVED Porgs. The stuff Porg was just a little more than he had, so he sadly put it back on the shelf; and as we were walking out, a Cast Member stopped us and handed us a bag - with the Porg in it - a gift from Mickey! She must have overheard our conversation. He is 15, and that Porg still sits on his bed.

My family has had our share of tough life stuff. Disney was our happy place; where people were kind, and unexpected good things happened. That's why we went. We could just drink in the beauty and the goodness, and feel safe and "escape" from our real world - even for a few days.

Over the past three years though, it is not the same Disney When Disney makes a mistake/error or offers less than Disney service; they are now regularly flippant, cold, and unapologetic. More recently, we booked a room specifically at a resort with a hot tub - it was a "bribe" to my now 15 year old for his grades - and when we got to the resort, the hot tub was "closed for maintenance" for our entire stay. When I asked at the front desk when the hot tub might be repaired, there wasn't even an "I'm so sorry" - despite our room request included being "close to the hot tub". When I asked if maybe we could visit another resort just for one day to enjoy a hot tub, the response was a very rude, "We don't do that." Well, you used to do nice things; just apparently not anymore.

This summer, we had requested a mid stay (8 night visit) floor cleaning due to a dust allergy - and a sharps container for medical waste. Neither was done/given, and when I asked at the front desk on two separate occasions, I was told that they had staffing difficulties and "excessive requests" could not always be accomodated. It was not a pleasant interaction.

I've posted before about the pretty significant DAS issue we had this summer; when I did ask to speak with someone about that very serious situation, the Cast Member literally rolled her eyes and laughed. Glad you think my kid losing conciousness on a ride was funny. I was told "they were experiencing staffing issues" - not really reassuring. When I asked if they could possibly refund the balance of my Annual Passes since they could not provide a safe experience for my family with their current staffing challenges - I was told I would be receiving a follow up telephone call - which of course never came.

So, Disney USED to be a very special, magical, memorable place. I wish it still was - and for anyone who DOES get to experience that, I'm happy for you. I really miss it.

Superb and well said