Need to Vent- Please just Tolerate Me

[KirstenB]

Why should the taxpayers pay for this?

Ummm...because it's a federal mandate. Every child is entitled to a "free and appropriate education". Think about if it were your child. Wouldn't you want the appropriate education for him/her?

 

[TheZue]

OP: May I recommend a book called the "Tough Kids Book"? I am a grad student in sped and it was one of our class books this semester. Our professor taught in the prisons and swears by the techniques in this book. It is like the Bible to him.



ETA: The response below is only about the quoted comment and was in absolutely not way meant to be about the OP's situation. It only refers to children who are non violent and are on the mild end of the special education spectrum. I apologize for any confusion.

Inclusion is a good thing to a point. There is no reason having an aide or scribe in the room has to be disruptive. I just finished a pre-internship (teaching half days) in fourth grade special ed. Every single one of my stduents was included in their general education class for at least part of the time, and one has a para with him at all times. This para is absolutely amazing. When he talks and gets off track she redirects. She makes him pay attention. If she does have to help him, she truly is quiet about it.

Good paras will not just help their one student, they will help other students as well. This decreases the teacher/adult ratio which is always a good thing. If a child can be reasonably accommodated, they should be. Most of my students do fine in general education classes with just a few supports, and they are not bringing the curriculum down.

What it depends on is a teacher who knows how to accommodate. The problem is, such teachers are few and far between. I'm not blaming the teachers, I'm blaming our current system of training teachers. My university is considered the top education university in our state, maybe one of the top in our country and even they don't do a good job preparing gen ed teachers. I am not going into special ed, I am simply getting my degree in it so that I do know how to properly accommodate.

What people don't realize about NCLB and IDEA is that least restrictive environment does not mean full inclusion. That is how it gets interpreted. For some kids full inclusion is more restrictive than a supportive environment. It is perfectly acceptable for a district to place a child in a special education classroom and it happens all the time. One of the reasons to place a child is disruption to the other students. I babysat a boy last year who has Aspergers and is very smart. The best place for him is full inclusion. He is not fully included however because let's just say that puberty has not agreed with him. His behavior has landed in a special ed class with more supports, and he hates being in with the "dumb kids" as he calls them.

If the parents refuse, the school can take the parents through due process. The school system I was with is doing that right now with a parent because they will not allow their child to be placed in an appropriate setting for that child. Most school systems either don't understand that they can do this or just refuse to. The OP's situation is one where due process is most definitely called for. That child needs to be in a Behavior Disorders classroom.



No. No child with an IEP can be suspended for 10 days or more without a manifestation determination. This is done to determine whether or not the behavior is the result of the disability. If it is the result of the disability, they must review the IEP and amend it. That is a time when a different placement will be considered. Based on the diagnosis of ODD I can guarantee you that the behavior would be considered the result of this child's disability. There is no way they could suspend him for more than 10 days (and that is cumulative over the school year) or expel him.

Thanks for posting this. My son has ASD and is mainstreamed with an aid in grade one. His aid is loved by all the other kids and brings more resources to the classroom. His teacher has even told me that having him in the classroom really forces her to keep on top of her schedule and keep it quiet because he'll notice if she doesn't. It's to the point he'll go close the door leading to the grade one class next door when they are all getting crazy because it's too loud. So the net result of him in the class room is yes some whispering from his aid during some discussions but also getting another adult in the room who doens't only help him, a more structured environment for all the children, and learning that not all people are exactly the same which isn't a bad thing.

To the OP ((((hugs)))) some kids don't do well being mainstreamed and it doesn't sound like that situation isn't working for anyone

 

[TheZue]

Why should the taxpayers pay for this?

Because he may still go on to be a productive member of society. If he was in an apropriate environment he could learn to control himself and work with others. Writing him off ensures he may never have a job or could end up in jail. One way or another it's very likely taxpayers would be paying for him. It's not like we only give education for the strong.

 

[MM27]

Excellent and thoughtful post above!!!

I do want to remind everyone, that it is not the school who has to take the parent thru 'due process'.... It is the other way around. It is the parents who initiate due-process.

It is correct that the school can not force a parent to have the child on an IEP... But, if a child is NOT on an IEP, then the school can, and should, expell the child for this type of behavior.

If the parent refuses to have their chlld have an IEP, then, as a non-special-needs child, the child is expelled for violence...

If the child does have an IEP, then the school handles this as they please... They can, TODAY, call the parent into an IEP meeting, and send this child into special placement... Believe me, as the parent of a special needs child, what I 'requested' for my son did not matter... The school simply did as they pleased... My child's needs were not met.

Again, if the parent does not agree with what the school is doing/offering, then it is up the parent to take the school thru 'due process'. (not the other way around)
(I chose to pull my son out of the public school system rather than go thru that.)

The school can force the parents' hand by saying, it is either special placement under an IEP, or expulsion... child is out of school.

The school has ample evidence and behavior history as grounds for the above.

If the child is expelled, or the parents simply do not send him back into the appropriate placement, then the parents will then have to, on their own, find other avenues for their child's education.

At that point, if the child is then not being educated, yes, the parents could be in violation of education/truancy laws, and DCS could then be called in.

It doesn't work that way here. We put in referral forms for any student that we believe needs to be seen by our intervention and referral team. Nothing can be done though until a parent signs off on it. No testing, no special ed placement, they can't even have an in-class support teacher with them without parent consent.

If the parent agrees to testing and let's say the child qualifies for special ed services, the parent can still refuse. If they don't sign, the child stays where they are. The only way that child can be put into a special ed classroom is if the district takes the parent to court and gets an order to override the parents decision.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Actually, schools can initiate due process if the parents are refusing to allow a child to be placed in an appropriate setting. Again, our school is doing that right now with a student who has needs that cannot be met. We can't just kick the child out- it is not an issue of violence in the least. And the child does have an IEP I believe, but they won't agree to the appropriate placement. So schools can initiate a due process hearing against the parents, but most just refuse to becuase they do not want to have a bad relationship with the parents.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, it is true that a school can NOT run specialized testing and put a child under the special ed umbrella ( an IEP ) without the parents consent, as described above. This leads me to believe that this child is covered by an IEP, because the OP mentioned that he has some diagnosis, and is undergoing further testing. This would require the parents signature.

Now, once a child does have an IEP, the school is the one who calls the shots and determines the placement... They do NOT have to have permission. If the parent does not agree with what the school is offering, then it is up to the parent to initiate due-process.

My child was 'mainstreamed' and was not even pulled out for mathmatics, even though he has a diagnosed math disability, and is known to be two years behind his neurotypical age-peers... (he was in the regular classroom, given the same math curriculum, which was completely inappropriate) The school does what they want... They don't have to ask for permission... It is the parent who has to make requests. It is the parents who have to go thru due-process if they do not agree with their childs placement. I sat in the IEP meetings and submitted detailed info about my son's disability, his current standing in math, etc... and requested, in writing, that he receive more services/instruction for math... This was summarily ignored.

The school does not have to have permission to discipline/suspend/expel a child. The school does not take orders from a parent... not even for a child on an IEP.

If this particulalr child is NOT under an IEP... then he should be expelled immediately according to regular school policy

If this child IS under an IEP, then the school is the one who determines what is offered, what type of placement is appropriate/necessary, etc...

The fact that the OP mentions that this child already has some diagnosis, and is possibly undergoing further testing, leads me to believe that this child must already be under the SPED umbrella. Because, as mentioned, the diagnosis and testing would not legally be taking place without the parent's signature.

 

[DizBelle]

Because he may still go on to be a productive member of society. If he was in an apropriate environment he could learn to control himself and work with others. Writing him off ensures he may never have a job or could end up in jail. One way or another it's very likely taxpayers would be paying for him. It's not like we only give education for the strong.

I don't recall EVER suggesting that this child should be "written off."

 

[Disney Doll]

Because he may still go on to be a productive member of society. If he was in an apropriate environment he could learn to control himself and work with others. Writing him off ensures he may never have a job or could end up in jail. One way or another it's very likely taxpayers would be paying for him. It's not like we only give education for the strong.

I'm not sure where I read that anyone posted that the child should be written off. If anything, we are all advocating putting him in the appropriate environmant for him to learn, which is clearly not the one he is currently in.

I have a Downs Syndrome godchild, who I love dearly, so I understand both sides of the coin. Every child deserves an education...this one deserves an education and so do the children who are in his class who are NOT getting the education because he is disrupting their learning environmant.

So...no one is getting an appropriate education. And it's mainly because his parents aren't willing to listen and the school isn't willing to take it to the level lit needs to be taken to. I feel badly for the kid...he has bad parents and that will affect him for the the rest of his life. If he had good parents, he could maximize his abilities because they would support and encourage it.

 

[daisax]

This kid has already pulled out the principals hair, attacked me and the reading specialist, punched the math specialist in the face, hit two other students, and the list goes on!

Frankly, I'd call the police and file assault charges/get a restraining order. Then let the teacher's union and the town fight it out.

 

[shelly3girls]

Yes, it is true that a school can NOT run specialized testing and put a child under the special ed umbrella ( an IEP ) without the parents consent, as described above. This leads me to believe that this child is covered by an IEP, because the OP mentioned that he has some diagnosis, and is undergoing further testing. This would require the parents signature.

Now, once a child does have an IEP, the school is the one who calls the shots and determines the placement... They do NOT have to have permission. If the parent does not agree with what the school is offering, then it is up to the parent to initiate due-process.

My child was 'mainstreamed' and was not even pulled out for mathmatics, even though he has a diagnosed math disability, and is known to be two years behind his neurotypical age-peers... (he was in the regular classroom, given the same math curriculum, which was completely inappropriate) The school does what they want... They don't have to ask for permission... It is the parent who has to make requests. It is the parents who have to go thru due-process if they do not agree with their childs placement. I sat in the IEP meetings and submitted detailed info about my son's disability, his current standing in math, etc... and requested, in writing, that he receive more services/instruction for math... This was summarily ignored.

The school does not have to have permission to discipline/suspend/expel a child. The school does not take orders from a parent... not even for a child on an IEP.

If this particulalr child is NOT under an IEP... then he should be expelled immediately according to regular school policy

If this child IS under an IEP, then the school is the one who determines what is offered, what type of placement is appropriate/necessary, etc...

The fact that the OP mentions that this child already has some diagnosis, and is possibly undergoing further testing, leads me to believe that this child must already be under the SPED umbrella. Because, as mentioned, the diagnosis and testing would not legally be taking place without the parent's signature.

Children with a medical diagnosis like ADHD do not get an IEP, they have a 504 plan (that is what is called around here, not sure about everywhere else). The rules are different and the parents, teacher and nurse sign off on how the disability is handled.