need help w/ a teenage problem

Originally posted by hmwnick
I am almost afraid to post again, but...
1st of all, Of course I asked, dd has said it was mutual .

3rd, my dd & I have talked over everything including what led to
this & what the future holds Also, there is not more to the
story as one poster suggested.

I am glad that you are confident that it was mutual. That would be a worry for me.

I suggested more to the story because there might be. I am sure that they are not fessing up 100%. Your dd will lean towards "protecting" him. Now I hope that is not true and I hope that I am wrong.

I truely hope that things get better from here on out.

:hug:
 
Poohandwendy--I didn't think i was pursuing anything. I thought I was giving a different angle. And, I think its something the op needs to know. She may not know, when the dd goes to the ob/gyn, that the ob/gyn is required to report that to the state, who can then perform an investigation, into the act itself, but also into the family situation. The law is designed to protect against child abuse. This situation seems to fit into the reporting requirements. What health services does with the report is another question. They could act, they could refer to child protective services, they could refer to law enforcement, they could do nothing. It really doesn't matter if the op wants to or does not want to have gov't involvement. It may come anyway, and she should be ready for it.
 
As sickening and heartbreaking as it is to all of us, I don't think it's such an unusual thing for a young teen to be sexually active. Wrong yes, and WAAYY too young. But not unheard of. I really don't think the abuse thing is going to be an issue.
 

Originally posted by dennis99ss
Poohandwendy--I didn't think i was pursuing anything. I thought I was giving a different angle. And, I think its something the op needs to know. She may not know, when the dd goes to the ob/gyn, that the ob/gyn is required to report that to the state, who can then perform an investigation, into the act itself, but also into the family situation. The law is designed to protect against child abuse. This situation seems to fit into the reporting requirements. What health services does with the report is another question. They could act, they could refer to child protective services, they could refer to law enforcement, they could do nothing. It really doesn't matter if the op wants to or does not want to have gov't involvement. It may come anyway, and she should be ready for it.
I understand what you are saying, but it's likely that would happen only if the OP's DD went into the visit not being honest about the situation. If the OP and her DD approach the OB/Gyn with "My daughter came to me and told me she and her BF have been sexually active and she needs to discuss BC options" I think it is highly unlikely her doctor is going to feel the issue needs to be dealt with by the authorities. The boy does have age in his favor in one way because he is only 2 years older than her. Also, could you please post a link of the reporting requirements you are citing?
 
Oh, I am so sorry hmwnick. This is a no win situation. All you can do is pick up the pieces and go from here. You already answered the most important questions about it being mutual.

Now, my daughter was 17 when she did this. The Florence Nightingale thing is a good description of it. The boy was in a very similar situation, bad, bad, bad. I also, thought I was helping.
What I ended up helping him to was my daughter. I should have cut the ties immediately when I saw trouble coming. But I felt sorry for him, and she was older and rebellious and would have done far worse than what happened.

However, he saw her as his savior too. He couldn't/WOULDN'T function as a normal, responsible kid without her telling him what to do, without her support. He used his troubles as a way to get to her. As a way to get her sympathy, as a way to get to her physically.
At several points he threatened to kill himself, at another point he held her hostage for a couple hours while he tried to convince her to run away with him. She could have jumped out of the moving car, but she still did not think he was dangerous enough to try.

My point is to get your daughter help. Get her to a doctor. Find out if she's pregnant, get her on birthcontrol. Birth control that is 13yo child proof. She is still a little girl, convinced to act grown up, by herself, by him, you just don't know.
And get her to a counselor. She needs to talk to someone. Someone needs to get to why she would be vulnerable to this right now.

My youngest daughter is almost 13. She is still a little girl, thank heavens.

But, my advice is to cut all ties to him. For your daughters' sake.
 
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/rider11/imp.shtm

Also, Texas Family Code Chapter 261.101

And, Texas Penal Code 21.11

Penal Code states the elements of the offense.

Family code codifies the reporting requirement

dshs requires enforcement of codification of anyone taking money.

However, family code is enough to require the report.
 
Originally posted by hmwnick
He told his mom last night & has said he wants to be the one to tell my DH or at least be there.

I don't think my DH would have the cojones to tell my father that he's been doing *it* with me.

And we're in our late 20's!
 
Originally posted by dennis99ss
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/rider11/imp.shtm

Also, Texas Family Code Chapter 261.101

And, Texas Penal Code 21.11

Penal Code states the elements of the offense.

Family code codifies the reporting requirement

dshs requires enforcement of codification of anyone taking money.

However, family code is enough to require the report.
But it states that a physician is not required to report abuse if the teen is sexually active or asking for BCm it is up to their discretion. I just do not agree a doctor would report it unless they had reason to believe that the act was non-consentual.
 
It is discretionary after 14 yrs old, when facts to suggest a defense exist. It is not under 14. The rider is in addition to the requirements of the family code. It does not change or modify the requirement that a report be made within 48 hours if there is evidence of a violation of 21.11. Just asking for bcp is not enough. However, asking for a test, or, having a std, is enough to trigger the requirement. Verbal notification would be enough, in this case, because the girl is 13. If she was 14, a defense could apply, thereby resulting in an exception to the reporting requirement. however, at 13, no defense exists.

Whether the doctor reports it or not is up to the doctor. Whether the doctor is required to report it is not up to the doctor.
 
Can you please paste exactly where it states that a 15 yo is held to the same legal standards as an adult, or what standards would apply to another child who is also not of the age of consent, I am tired of searching through texas penal code....TIA
 
Originally posted by dennis99ss
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/rider11/imp.shtm

Also, Texas Family Code Chapter 261.101

And, Texas Penal Code 21.11

Penal Code states the elements of the offense.

Family code codifies the reporting requirement

dshs requires enforcement of codification of anyone taking money.

However, family code is enough to require the report.

This code refers to DHS providers under Medicaid, NOT a private physician.

And this incident did not even occur in Texas.
 
philly, you are quoting a rule interpreting the code, not the code itself. The dept.'s regulations are in addition to the code requirements, and specifically state that they do not modify the family code provisions requiring notification. The fact that it occurred in another state does not effect the reporting requirement. The doctor visit is here, and the doctor is required to follow tx law.


Texas Family Code

§ 261.101. PERSONS REQUIRED TO REPORT; TIME TO
REPORT. (a) A person having cause to believe that a child's
physical or mental health or welfare has been adversely affected by
abuse or neglect by any person shall immediately make a report as
provided by this subchapter.
(b) If a professional has cause to believe that a child has
been abused or neglected or may be abused or neglected, or that a
child is a victim of an offense under Section 21.11, Penal Code, and
the professional has cause to believe that the child has been abused
as defined by Section 261.001, the professional shall make a report
not later than the 48th hour after the hour the professional first
suspects that the child has been or may be abused or neglected or is
a victim of an offense under Section 21.11, Penal Code. A
professional may not delegate to or rely on another person to make
the report. In this subsection, "professional" means an individual
who is licensed or certified by the state or who is an employee of a
facility licensed, certified, or operated by the state and who, in
the normal course of official duties or duties for which a license
or certification is required, has direct contact with children.
The term includes teachers, nurses, doctors, day-care employees,
employees of a clinic or health care facility that provides
reproductive services, juvenile probation officers, and juvenile
detention or correctional officers.
(c) The requirement to report under this section applies
without exception to an individual whose personal communications
may otherwise be privileged, including an attorney, a member of the
clergy, a medical practitioner, a social worker, a mental health
professional, and an employee of a clinic or health care facility
that provides reproductive services.
(d) Unless waived in writing by the person making the
report, the identity of an individual making a report under this
chapter is confidential and may be disclosed only:
(1) as provided by Section 261.201; or
(2) to a law enforcement officer for the purposes of
conducting a criminal investigation of the report.



This section states that, if a professional--doctor, nurse, etc.- suspects that a child is a victim under 21.21 of the Penal Code, a report must be made.


Texas Penal Code

§ 21.11. INDECENCY WITH A CHILD. (a) A person commits
an offense if, with a child younger than 17 years and not the
person's spouse, whether the child is of the same or opposite sex,
the person:
(1) engages in sexual contact with the child or causes
the child to engage in sexual contact; or
(2) with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire
of any person:
(A) exposes the person's anus or any part of the
person's genitals, knowing the child is present; or
(B) causes the child to expose the child's anus
or any part of the child's genitals.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the actor:
(1) was not more than three years older than the victim
and of the opposite sex;
(2) did not use duress, force, or a threat against the
victim at the time of the offense; and
(3) at the time of the offense:
(A) was not required under Chapter 62, Code of
Criminal Procedure, to register for life as a sex offender; or
(B) was not a person who under Chapter 62 had a
reportable conviction or adjudication for an offense under this
section.
(c) In this section, "sexual contact" means the following
acts, if committed with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual
desire of any person:
(1) any touching by a person, including touching
through clothing, of the anus, breast, or any part of the genitals
of a child; or
(2) any touching of any part of the body of a child,
including touching through clothing, with the anus, breast, or any
part of the genitals of a person.
(d) An offense under Subsection (a)(1) is a felony of the
second degree and an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a felony of
the third degree.


§ 22.011. SEXUAL ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an
offense if the person:
(1) intentionally or knowingly:
(A) causes the penetration of the anus or sexual
organ of another person by any means, without that person's
consent;
(B) causes the penetration of the mouth of
another person by the sexual organ of the actor, without that
person's consent; or
(C) causes the sexual organ of another person,
without that person's consent, to contact or penetrate the mouth,
anus, or sexual organ of another person, including the actor; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly:
(A) causes the penetration of the anus or sexual
organ of a child by any means;
(B) causes the penetration of the mouth of a
child by the sexual organ of the actor;
(C) causes the sexual organ of a child to contact
or penetrate the mouth, anus, or sexual organ of another person,
including the actor;
(D) causes the anus of a child to contact the
mouth, anus, or sexual organ of another person, including the
actor; or
(E) causes the mouth of a child to contact the
anus or sexual organ of another person, including the actor.
(b) A sexual assault under Subsection (a)(1) is without the
consent of the other person if:
(1) the actor compels the other person to submit or
participate by the use of physical force or violence;
(2) the actor compels the other person to submit or
participate by threatening to use force or violence against the
other person, and the other person believes that the actor has the
present ability to execute the threat;
(3) the other person has not consented and the actor
knows the other person is unconscious or physically unable to
resist;
(4) the actor knows that as a result of mental disease
or defect the other person is at the time of the sexual assault
incapable either of appraising the nature of the act or of resisting
it;
(5) the other person has not consented and the actor
knows the other person is unaware that the sexual assault is
occurring;
(6) the actor has intentionally impaired the other
person's power to appraise or control the other person's conduct by
administering any substance without the other person's knowledge;
(7) the actor compels the other person to submit or
participate by threatening to use force or violence against any
person, and the other person believes that the actor has the ability
to execute the threat;
(8) the actor is a public servant who coerces the other
person to submit or participate;
(9) the actor is a mental health services provider or a
health care services provider who causes the other person, who is a
patient or former patient of the actor, to submit or participate by
exploiting the other person's emotional dependency on the actor;
(10) the actor is a clergyman who causes the other
person to submit or participate by exploiting the other person's
emotional dependency on the clergyman in the clergyman's
professional character as spiritual adviser; or
(11) the actor is an employee of a facility where the
other person is a resident, unless the employee and resident are
formally or informally married to each other under Chapter 2,
Family Code.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age
who is not the spouse of the actor.
(2) "Spouse" means a person who is legally married to
another.

Text of subsec. (c)(3) effective until February 1, 2004
(3) "Health care services provider" means:
(A) a physician licensed under Subtitle B, Title
3, Occupations Code;
(B) a chiropractor licensed under Chapter 201,
Occupations Code;
(C) a licensed vocational nurse licensed under
Chapter 302, Occupations Code;
(D) a physical therapist licensed under Chapter
453, Occupations Code;
(E) a physician assistant licensed under Chapter
204, Occupations Code; or
(F) a registered nurse or an advanced practice
nurse licensed under Chapter 301, Occupations Code.

Text of subsec. (c)(3) effective February 1, 2004
(3) "Health care services provider" means:
(A) a physician licensed under Subtitle B, Title
3, Occupations Code;
(B) a chiropractor licensed under Chapter 201,
Occupations Code;
(C) a physical therapist licensed under Chapter
453, Occupations Code;
(D) a physician assistant licensed under Chapter
204, Occupations Code; or
(E) a registered nurse, a vocational nurse, or an
advanced practice nurse licensed under Chapter 301, Occupations
Code.
(4) "Mental health services provider" means an
individual, licensed or unlicensed, who performs or purports to
perform mental health services, including a:
(A) licensed social worker as defined by Section
505.002, Occupations Code;
(B) chemical dependency counselor as defined by
Section 504.001, Occupations Code;
(C) licensed professional counselor as defined
by Section 503.002, Occupations Code;
(D) licensed marriage and family therapist as
defined by Section 502.002, Occupations Code;
(E) member of the clergy;
(F) psychologist offering psychological services
as defined by Section 501.003, Occupations Code; or
(G) special officer for mental health assignment
certified under Section 1701.404, Occupations Code.
(5) "Employee of a facility" means a person who is an
employee of a facility defined by Section 250.001, Health and
Safety Code, or any other person who provides services for a
facility for compensation, including a contract laborer.
(d) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2)
that the conduct consisted of medical care for the child and did not
include any contact between the anus or sexual organ of the child
and the mouth, anus, or sexual organ of the actor or a third party.
(e) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under
Subsection (a)(2) that:
(1) the actor was not more than three years older than
the victim and at the time of the offense:
(A) was not required under Chapter 62, Code of
Criminal Procedure, as added by Chapter 668, Acts of the 75th
Legislature, Regular Session, 1997, to register for life as a sex
offender; or
(B) was not a person who under Chapter 62 had a
reportable conviction or adjudication for an offense under this
section; and
(2) the victim was a child of 14 years of age or older.
(f) An offense under this section is a felony of the second
degree.




The family code sets out the reporting requirements. There is a requirement for a report to be made if a violation of 21.11 is present. The violation in 21.11 is sexual contact with a child less than 17. While there are a number of listed defenses, the simple presence of a defense does not mean the offense is not present, it simply means there is a possible defense to the charge. The reporting requirement stands.

The code further defines the age of consent as 14 years old, in 22.011.

With regards the age, there is no set age to be tried as an adult, as such can be determined by a hearing should charges be brrought. Further, there is no provision that the offenses described are limited to a certain age group. As such, they apply to 13 year olds, 15 year olds, etc. Because there is no limitation as to the age to which they apply, they apply universally.

Again, it may very well be the case that the Dr. does nothing. However, the Dr. may feel compelled to make a re[port, as the failure to make a report when required is an offense in and of itself, but, the making of a report in good faith is a protected action.
 
I don't want to sound cruel but NOT allowing a 13 year old to have a boyfriend until she was old enough to deal with these kinds of things might have been a good idea.

Kids are dating way too young. I remember I wasn't allowed to date in any way until I was 16. I hated my mother for it but I'm very glad she did it now that I'm older. I'd hate to be 14 years old and pregnant.

I realize you want to keep open communication with your kids. That's a very good idea. But just because someone has reached the teen years doesn't mean they should be dating. What they are doing should be age appropriate. Dating at that age definately isn't because no matter how open you are and no matter how much you discuss these things with your kid, they simply aren't really going to comprehend what this kind of thing means.

Seriously, at 13 years old, didn't you think that 20 was old? Can you remember having any real kind of concrete idea of the future and what these things really mean? I know I didn't. Neither did my sister. And yet, by parents of BOTH our respective friends, my sister and I were considered the responsible ones.

Kids are still kids no matter how much you talk to them. They have short attention spans, a very very limitted history, and a very limited understanding of the world.
 
:( I am wondering, have you asked if the other children were present and saw anything? That would be even more of a problem to deal with.
You seem to have an open communtication line with her...and that is so important, esp. at this age. I agree that a doctor's visit is in order, however, I would sit down and discuss that just because she being smart about not bringing a child into the world, as she is a child herself, that does not prevent STDs.
A friend of mine had sex with an ex-boyfriend of mine and came up with herpies.......thank goodness I had not been intimate with him too. I was devestated for her.....but, I tried to warn her of his habits. We were about 16/17 at the time.
I had another friend who had her first incounter with sex at 12, she spent all of her high school years and some time after thinking that was the only way she could keep a boyfriend and that it was love. Her parents never knew about it and they never had the chance to talk to her about it.
Your daughter is very young and a talk about what it means emotionally needs to be treated with KID gloves.
I feel for you, I know that not telling her fater is hard for you, however, I am not sure that he will handle it the same way you did.
Explain to your children that sex doesn't cover up or make it better when things go wrong in your life. It is how you handle those situations that make you who you are in the long run. Having a friend to count on and cry to is much better for your heart than what they thought sex would do. Husbands and wives need the communication much more than they do their sex life.....however, it is an important part of being a committed and loving MARRIED couple.
Education and compasion does wonders! I will keep you family in my prayers tonight.
 
I hope the OP is not dissuaded from taking her DD to the gyno. with all of the talk about reporting, etc. If that happens, it happens--she still needs to put DD first and take her in to the doctor. I can't tell from all of the legal talk if it matters if it happened in Texas if they live in and are going to the doctor in Texas.
Just wanted to reinforce the opinon to sever ties with the boy. No matter how troubled he is, DD comes first. She's too young for this. Hopefully she has learned from this and won't attempt it with him again, but my oldest is only 12 and I"m probably living in a fool's paradise when it comes to this stuff.
BTW, if a 15 year old boy told my DH that he had done "it" with one of the DDs when she was only 13, he would be dead. And I really don't think I'm exaggerating! He feels way too comfortable with the family if he wants to be the one to tell the DH.
Robin M.
 
Wow Serena..... GREAT post! And, yours as well Rock'n Robin.

I still say that this whole thing is almost two warped to be real. I mean, here is a mother of a 13 year old girl. She has not even mentioned taking the poor child to the Dr. And she is full of 'excuses' for this 15 year old boy.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

She says her DD tells here that this was consensual. I agree with those who point out that, even by law, a 13 year old cannot, and cannot be deemed capable of, giving consent. No way is a 13 year old fully able to comprehend the situation and to come to this kind of decision. Her 'consent' is meaningless.

Perhaps the mother has a very 'live and let live' attitude. I have not heard any comments from her that she is doing anything at all to handle the situation. I can tell you that if I was this girls mother, I would have her at the Dr. the first thing the next morning... I would have an appt. with a good counselor... and this 'boy' would be out of our lives forever. I feel it would be my duty to do these things to protect my child! anything less, I would have to consider negligence. We are not talking about 16-17 year olds here. The dd is a young innocent child who is being put through all of this.

Perhaps the OP is like in shock, and is confused. There are definately confused boundaries and perceptions here with the DD being considered as an older teen or young adult, and with this guy having enough pull over the mothers emotions that her DD was placed at risk.

Perhaps when the DH comes home, then that will be the day when the smoke clears? I know it would be around here!

I do agree that all the talk of 'statutes' and 'code' and 'legalities' is way premature and counterproductive. All that matters here is that this girl get the help she needs to free herself from this situation so that she can move forward and be successful in her life. Nothing else should matter.
 
Ok..

I live in Ca.. rural community..but I know that 13 year olds are discussing sex, have boyfriends, dating, and having sex. I don't think we are out of the norm for much of the rest of the USA.

Do I think it is too young??... you bet your sweet behind I do...
BUT THEY ARE!!!!!

For those of you who think your 13 year olds are above doing so... you need take off those rose colored glasses and take look around.

I understand OP openess for this boy whose family is having difficulties. She just wanted to help him I am sure she had no reason to expect trouble with her daughter and this young man. Up to this point it seems she had no reason to believe her daughter was being placed in an at risk situation. I would say at 12 and 14, To most of girls having a boyfriend means.. "hanging out", going to the movies, kissing and holding hands. For my own daughter it means going with a group of friends to the movies, football games etc.. and talking on the phone... teen age girls are obsessed with the phone ;) and yes... some of them are having sex.... why? peer pressue to be cool, to be liked, to just have someone.. again I am not saying that their reasoning is correct.. but true for them. 13 is too young to be having sex.. hec most of the time they don't even pick up their own rooms..... let alone being held responsible for the emotional and physical commitment of sexual intercourse. So we tell them, show them what we think is best. We supervise.. but hang back a bit so they have room to grow.

So lets cut the OP some slack... she seems to have her DD best interest at heart. She was dumbfounded by her dd actions... most of us would be...

I had a thread a month or two ago.... You can teach your child to do the right thing.. but you can't make them always follow your instructions. AKA... YOU KNOW THEIR MAMA TAUGHT THEM BETTER!

Big Hugs to Hmwnk.... remember tomorrow will come and it is sure to be a better day.
 
My niece had a friend sleep over last weekend. My sister overheard a conversation and found out that this friend is very sexually active. We had our suspicions, but she confirmed it. Since we had been wondering about this girl for a while now, my niece hasn't been allowed over at her house. The only time they have spent together has been at my sister's house. And YES she DID do her best to eavesdrop, check the computer history, etc. Anything to either ease her mind or confirm her suspisions. Well she did hear quite a bit. She now knows that this 14 year old girl is very sexually active and has even had @nal sex. :eek:
Needless to say she won't be around my niece (who hasn't even had a first kiss yet) anymore. Luckily they go to different schools now so it will be easier to keep them apart.
Now, if she's doing this at 14 what was she doing at 13, or even younger? :(
Face it guys, we are all OLD and things are different than when we were kids.
Kids are exposed to WAY too much sexuality at a young age, and if given the opportunity they will try things earlier than we would like. It's sad, but I think it's a reality/consequence of our culture/society.
The key is to keep them in a bubble within eyesight of us at all times until they are adults!! :p
 
Originally posted by MosMom
If she is determined to keep having sex, I would then explain EVERYTHING. I would explain different acts and how they work. What she can do to him, what he can do to her. If she made that choice, I would want her to know it ALL so the little snot couldn't talk her into anything. Knowledge is power and I would want her to have an incredible amount of power in any sexual relationship.

Amazing what a difference a few years makes.

Don't be so sure the "little snot" talked her into anything. From my vantage point, I can assure you that teenaged girls want sex and pursue sex just as much as boys, if not more in some cases.
 


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