Need Advice-Gross Topic Warning

[Wishing on a star]

Personally, I would simply no be able to handle socializing with this mother and child and having them in my home... I don't mean to sound awful... and I know that there may be valid issues with the child. (I have a special needs child who did suffer from encopresis for a short time... I can tell you that we took him to a pediatric gastroenterologist right away, and did everything possible to treat the situation... I can not imagine any less of a response....)

But, very simply put, if the mother is this oblivious, and the child is that unaware and unembarrassed at this age.... I simply could not take on their issues.

I just wanted to say that, encopresis is a serious medical condition... Not just a little constipation or a child who doesn't 'want' to go potty.

No matter what valid issues the child may have, if this mother is not addressing this issue, then I would almost consider that to be abusive. Allowing a child to wallow in their own waste is 'abusive'. This would NOT be legal or tolerated at any day-care, preschool, nursing care home for elderly adults, etc...

This is just not right, and I would not want to willingly and purposefully subject my family to this.

If you know that the school system is also trying to deal with this... and if you have any confidence in the staff that they would take your input seriously, then would you consider a confidential meeting with the principle, the school counselor, SPED director, etc... Perhaps, if you do not want to be involved with contacting CPS, then you could simply forward your own experiences/observations with the staff... School staff are mandated reporters, and if they feel it warranted, then they would contact CPS.

 

[Wishing on a star]

folowing up to my comments above, based on this info...

She did talk to the school psychologist who basically said that it is in the girls head and she just needs to get over whatever her "glue" is for not going.

I do not know how reliable this information is, especially since I am assuming that this was told to you by the girls mother...

However, if this is true at all, this is a negative and inappropriate response to this problem by the school psychologist. Making negative judgment calls is not the way to address this.

Personally, based on my experience, I have NO confidence in the school systems here... I would not assume that they would take this seriously... I would assume that they would not contact CPS. Quite the opposit.

So, the alternative is to anonymously contact CPS yourself. They will send a case worker to the school to speak to the child's teachers, etc...

 

[Mkrop]

Ok normally I am an avoid the situation type person but in this case I would have to tell the mom WHY her and her DD would no longer be having playdates.

If the mother was actively trying to potty train her DD, and helping with any clean up, or rushing her to the bathroom etc and things still were not working well, then I would have some comapssion, but since it seems this mom is not doing squat, then I would cut all ties.

 

[Todd&Copper]

I tend to agree that this might be the case. She had no idea she had to go and then it did not bother her at all. Her mother did say that at age 2 1/2 she was really constipated and that she refused to go because of that. She thinks that is where this comes from. They still have to be prepared for that days events. She did talk to the school psychologist who basically said that it is in the girls head and she just needs to get over whatever her "glue" is for not going.

If this info is from the girl's mother, then I would clearly state to the mother in no uncertain terms that disinfecting your house after the daughter left was a major hassle and you just don't feel comfortable allowing the kids to play b/c of the danger of germs/illness. Until the girl is potty-trained, no more play dates.

The mom needs to step up her game and encourage the girl to potty train. Pooping your pants on purpose nad not even trying to make it to the toilet is gross for a 5 year old child.

 

[ols386]

I would just be totally upfront with the mother, and tell her how you and your dh feel about the situation. I would try to tell her as gently as possible.

 

[luvsJack]

I tend to agree that this might be the case. She had no idea she had to go and then it did not bother her at all. Her mother did say that at age 2 1/2 she was really constipated and that she refused to go because of that. She thinks that is where this comes from. They still have to be prepared for that days events. She did talk to the school psychologist who basically said that it is in the girls head and she just needs to get over whatever her "glue" is for not going.

I think I posted this on your other thread about that little girl but, when I was in child care I took care of a little boy that had this problem. He got constipated when he was young, it hurt him when he finally could go and scared him. After that he refused to go and caused himself to stay constipated and then he had the leaking problem. He ended up having to have some kind of surgery. So, it started as a physical problem, became a mental one which then caused it to be physical again.

I don't get the psychologist saying she just needs to "get over it". This isn't something she can just "get over" all by herself and he/she should know that. I would think that a psychologist would have more compassion than that. Maybe the mom was hearing what she wanted to hear?

Regardless of the child's problem though, the mom is still being neglectful. Sounds like she is just too lazy to be concerned about her child. I may stop the play dates but somehow I would want her to know its because of her not her child.

 

[almburr]

there most likely is a problem, but for the mother to act like nothing is wrong is not right.
At our school there was a special needs child (mental delays) age of 7 mind of 2-3. Parents refused to put her in a pull-up (they were mentally delayed also) so first two years of school daily BM accidents we would have to take child to locker room and shower down.

Maybe you just suggest something in a nice way.

 

[IDoDis]

Teacher chiming in here. I had a student who was 8 years old and still pooped/peed in his pants. He didn't seem to mind and wouldn't ask to go to the bathroom to change. The kids would smell him and come tell us, "Johnny pooped in is pants, etc..).

I really took a liking to this child and knew his home life was bad. One time I had to walk him to his house (he lived right next to the school) to get clean clothes. I didn't go inside but waited at the door. The house was a complete disgusting mess. He also mentioned to me that they had mice.

Anyway, CPS (Child Protection Services) had been called several times but nothing changed. We got permission from the mom to have the boy see the school counselor once a week. It came out in his counseling sessions that he had been molested (I don't know how serious) by the mother's brother when he was 3 and 4 years old. The mother neglected to tell us this when they transferred to the school. The brother had served time in prison and was out again and had contact with the family. While the boy said he loved his uncle, he was also probably worried about it happening again.

So no wonder he was messing in his pants. The school psychologist said he was keeping himself dirty so that no one would want to mess with him down there.

Could this be a possibility with the girl? Older kids who have "accidents" are sometimes being sexually abused.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

You mentioned that the Mom does not admit to any delays. You also said that it smells so horrific. Even her pee. Maybe Mom is taking the daughter for treatments for her delay that she doesn't want to share with others, even the school. Some treatments can make excretions smell God awful. I would have told the Mom when the kid was at my house "Where do you want to clean her up? Do you need wipes, etc.?" If she said "No it's okay" I would have said "Well really it isn't. She has poop all over her pants. I don't want it all over the house. Besides, you don't want her to get a rash do you?"

The Mom needs to get on board with the kid. Even if she isn't potty trained the Mom needs to be on top of things. I still cannot believe they let her kid in K without being potty trained. Most pre-schools will not even take kids who aren't potty trained. Good luck. I would not have any playdates. Let it fade off.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

However, if this is true at all, this is a negative and inappropriate response to this problem by the school psychologist. Making negative judgment calls is not the way to address this.

I was going to say something about this as well. Totally, totally wrong here for a school psychologist to give a medical diagnosis. That is so wrong on so many levels.

Heck the PEDS are awful at handling this too. You have to see a GI doc.

My dd also suffered from severe constipation. She did not get to the level of having encopresis but she has megacolon as a result. Her bowels are stretched and will never be "normal".

 

[freepixie]

OK, preschool teacher chiming in here - I teach Head Start - kids all aged 3, 4, and 5. I have had many a child come to us in diapers - and let me tell you by the time they leave my classroom they are fully potty trained!! I will not be changing diapers all day - we have a set curriculum to follow and get through each day that we don't have the time for that!

So what we do when a child poops their diaper/pull up - they must change the diaper themselves - yes even the 3-yr-olds! Once they realize how gross it is to change - "most" kids will start using that potty so they don't have to clean up after themselves. And "most" kids will see the other kids using the potty and want to conform to the same.

Same with accidents - unless the child is visibly ill they need to clean up after themselves to learn that it is unacceptable. Now when a child is ill, I'll take over the clean-up and send the kiddo home.

Now once in a while we have had the consistent poopers, and refer the child to a doctor or specialist - the goal at Head Start is Kindergarten readiness and in our school district it means fully potty trained. If a child goes to Kdg in a diaper - they will send the child home and tell them to try again next year, their child is not ready. Also if they have consistent accidents, again, no tolerance, they get sent home and told "not ready" and to try again next year.

 

[Tinijocaro]

If you had the guts, I would do this mother the favor of letting her know how you feel. Let her know that you will have her dd over again when she is completely potty trained because the last visit, she left poop all over your son's room. Let her know that you were surprised that she made no attempt to clean it up.

Or, just avoid her like the plague. If she's weird about this, she's probably weird about other things.

 

[luvsJack]

OK, preschool teacher chiming in here - I teach Head Start - kids all aged 3, 4, and 5. I have had many a child come to us in diapers - and let me tell you by the time they leave my classroom they are fully potty trained!! I will not be changing diapers all day - we have a set curriculum to follow and get through each day that we don't have the time for that!

So what we do when a child poops their diaper/pull up - they must change the diaper themselves - yes even the 3-yr-olds! Once they realize how gross it is to change - "most" kids will start using that potty so they don't have to clean up after themselves. And "most" kids will see the other kids using the potty and want to conform to the same.

Same with accidents - unless the child is visibly ill they need to clean up after themselves to learn that it is unacceptable. Now when a child is ill, I'll take over the clean-up and send the kiddo home.

Now once in a while we have had the consistent poopers, and refer the child to a doctor or specialist - the goal at Head Start is Kindergarten readiness and in our school district it means fully potty trained. If a child goes to Kdg in a diaper - they will send the child home and tell them to try again next year, their child is not ready. Also if they have consistent accidents, again, no tolerance, they get sent home and told "not ready" and to try again next year.

Wow! Not even legal in our state to do such a thing. Head Start follows the same state guidelines as Child care centers do and one of the things they cannot do is force potty training or be made to change themselves in the case of an accident. They are required to work with the parents in potty training and no child can be turned away for this reason.

Each of our classrooms had a set curriculum also (just as any facility that cares for children is required to do in our state), but changing, pottying, etc. was just something you budgeted time for. 4 year olds were usually completely trained with little or few accidents (5's always fully trained w/no accidents) , but 3 year olds not so much and they have lots of accidents. Not all 3 year olds are developmentally ready to be trained and still have 2 years to get ready for school. Again, there is no way we could (or would) make a child clean up after themselves.

I do agree with the statement that most kids want to go to use the potty when they realize thats what the other kids do. That's why it is, so many times, easier for a child care center to potty train a child than the parent to do it at home with just them and the kid. (for kids who stay in child care on a regular basis)

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

Gross. This mother reminds me of my dad's brother's wife. My dad remembers once at a family reunion, his niece would have been 4 almost 5, did a bm in her pants which leaked out all over the chair of the place we rented for the reunion. Instead of changing her, the mom put her snowpants over the top of it and proceded to go about her business like nothing happened. My dad ended up in a huge argument with the mother just to get her to clean up the chair, as she was going to just leave it that way. Some parents need to get a clue!

 

[Camicar]

I am convinced that my dd is the most stubborn person on the planet. And if you'd went thru what I went thru with potty training her in re bowel movements, you'd agree with me. She was not potty trained for bms until she was almost five. I did everything ANYONE suggested to try to get her to use the potty to make her bms. My mother even came out here from NY taking a week of vacation to 'potty train her right' since I was apparently incompetent and gave up too! I finally found what worked with her right before her fifth birthday by accident -- the day I finally lost it and screamed at her at the top of my lungs was the day she finally decided to use the potty to make her bms. She had resisted everything else. Why? To be contrary.

The difference between me and this mother, however, is that I did EVERYTHING possible to get dd to use the potty to make her bms, while this mother is whackadoodle and seems to actually be discouraging potty use. There is some serious crazy going on in her head.

I'd have no problem telling the mother why her dd is not invited back to my house, something along the lines of, "Your daughter is a lovely little girl, but unfortunately we are not comfortable having her here until she is fully potty trained and makes all of her business in the potty. When that happens, we can talk again. Good luck."

 

[tonilea]

I just can't imagine. Words fail me.