Need Advice-Gross Topic Warning

[lovemylife]

I don't know if some of you remember about October, I wrote about a girl in my DS5 Kindergarden class that was not potty trained and she went in her pants at a restaurant.

Well, today her mother called up and wanted the girl to come over and play with my son because she was bored, etc. I told her that was fine because my DS wanted to do something different today. Anyways, they came over and her DD5 is still not potty trained had a BM in her pants. I know this because at first I thought she had paint on her bottom, but her mom said that it was BM that "leaked" on her pants. Mind you, that when they got here, her pants were fine, so that means she pooped her pants while in my house, playing in my son's room with his toys. The mother made no attempt to clean her up at all. She just let her keep playing. Meanwhile, my DH had already asked them if they wanted to stay for dinner, but once we found out she "stained" herself, we were totally grossed out and he pretended that his mother called on his cell and she had a problem that needed taken care of and we needed to go. He offered a rain check for dinner.

My problem is that we are so grossed out by this behaviour and the fact that the mother did nothing about this at all and made no attempt at cleaning her up. She did not even have other clothes along with her. The mother wants us to get together again, but my DH and I can't have her around because we can't have another incident like this. We had to clean my DS room because there was "stuff" on his desk chair and other things she sat on. Talk about gross. We don't want to be mean, but seriously, who does not take care of that situation? It didn't phase either of them and my DH and I just looked at eachother disgusted. How do you tell someone that you can't have them over because of this?

P.S. there is much more to this, but this is the main issue.

Thanks.

 

[mrsv98]

I don't know who has the bigger issues here, the mother or the child but I would stay FAR away from both of them. Unless the child has some sort of developmental delay, there is no reason she should not be potty trained, at least during the daytime.

I would be tempted to bleach my entire house....DISGUSTING!

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

This is just nasty! (Where'd that puking smiley go?)

First of all I can't understand how a 5 yo can't be potty trained and how does the kid stay in school? Don't the kids in your school have to be potty trained?

If the mom called again I would just tell her, though I am a pretty straight forward person. Sorry I don't feel comfortable with having your daughter over because of the potty training issues that happened during the last playdate. Are they resolved?

Yea its straight forward and harsh , but that moms behavior and daughter's is just not normal. Don't go onplaydates, stay home and potty train your kid.

 

[lovesmurfs]

Uggh. I would always have plans or be busy whenever she called. Ew. Are there developmental problems with the child? Even so, as a parent, I'd always have a change of clothes with me. I'd also be asking the girl every 15 minutes if she needs to use the potty.

During my kids' potty training, I always comforted myself that regardless of what I was going through, they'd be trained before they went to kindergarten. Apparently that's not the case -- good thing I didn't know that then!

ETA: Good quick thinking on your DH's part!!!

 

[themarquis]

Okay, maybe I'm totally crazy, but I just think you could go ahead and be direct and call the mom up and say, hey, the next time you guys come over, please put a pullup on your DD because she got "stuff" in my kid's room.

If you could convince her to have the kid in a pullup or diaper every time she comes over, everything would be "safe" and there would be no need to freak out. Would she even be offended? She said outright that the DD had had an "accident". She knows what's happening -- just stand up to her and tell her to contain the DD's "stuff">

I agree that this woman has some screws loose. BUT .. the fact is, you don't know the situation with the DD (unless you specifed it in an earlier thread??). Perhaps she has a physical problem or is slightly delayed. Who knows?

Of course, if you don't like this woman, your DDs don't get along, etc., don't bother and just cut off ties.

 

[linda0706]

Ewww, that's just nasty. Not to excuse the mother by ANY means, but it's possible the child has a medical condition and couldn't help herself. I cannot believe the mother's actions, though! I'd think that poor little girl knew she was stinky and would be embarrassed about it.

My DD had/has bathroom problems where every once-in-awhile if we're not on top of things, she'd get so constipated that material would "leak" around the blockage. Now this rarely happened (maybe 2-3 times EVER), but the child really has no control over it. In our case, I kept DD home from school until we could get things under control, & I would NEVER send her off on a play-date during those couple of days it would take.

I don't have any advice for you. How in the world do you handle that one?!? Perhaps if there's a next time you can act like you're "assuming" the mother hasn't noticed it yet, and offer some old sweatpants for the girl to change in to or something like that. And a plastic bag or two to stuff the stained clothing for mom to tote home with her.

 

[Stacerita]

That is just nasty. I would be pretty upfront next time she asks. Just let her know that it took you and your DH a long time to clean and disinfect the house because of the "leak". Make sure she knows that is wasn't just on her DD's pants. That it leaked onto the chair, floor and other places. Just the thought is making me gag.

I also can't believe she showed up "dirty" and the mom didn't think anything of it. And to know you child isn't potty trained and not have change of clothes? What is up with that.

I'm sorry, but unless there are some underlying issues, she should be potty trained by now.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Even if this girl has a medical problem causing this, she should be in a pull up so it doesn't leak out, and it should be taken care of immediately so she doesn't get a rash. That sounds like flat out neglect. It also sounds like there is more than just that going on. Depending on the situation, I might be tempted to call CPS. If as your post implies there is more going on and you suspect neglect, please call. It does not necessarily mean that the child will be taken away. In most cases that is the last resort. More likely they will try to get the parents the help they need and give them a chance to remedy the situation.

 

[HelenePA]

If she didn't clean it up at your house what does her house look like?This is the first thing I thought of reading your whole post

I would cut as many ties as you could with this family. Even if her DD does have a problem that she can't control her mother should have done something about it ASAP!

 

[TheZue]

You know, coming from a mom who's eldest has autism and didn't PT until he was 4.5, there is no guarantee that there is a developmental delay. If there was she'd probably be a bit paranoid about things like that happening and the child would probably be in a pull up....I was always so freaked of that happening when Adam was in Preschool when he was freshly trained but there was no way he'd be there is just underwear. I agree with the other posters who suggest asking the child to wear a pull up if she comes over again...you shouldn't be embarrassed, you aren't the parent who was okay with letting her five year old sit in her poop. Her reaction was just odd.

 

[pfishgirl]

Not only is that really disturbing & gross... it's unhealthy

 

[lovemylife]

OP here. The girl is not potty trained yet and the school is pushing the mother to get her potty trained ASAP. They basically told her that she is not to be in pull ups any longer, because she would sit in those very wet and smelly for long periods of time. In previous thread on this subject, I mentioned that at dinner the girl said she had to go potty and the mother let her "go" at the side of the table while we were eating and it "leaked" through her pull up and then the girl decided she had to have a BM and did it in the lobby as we were leaving. She went right there as people were coming and going.

Well, I work in my DS class a few times per week and last week during their Christmas party, she said she had to go. I told her to go to the bathroom. A little bit later she came back and said she didn't make it and her pants were wet. I asked her if she had extra clothes in her back pack,which she did. I told her to go to the bathroom and change. After about 10 minutes I noticed she still was not back and asked the teacher if I should go check on her. When I got to the bathroom, there was a HUGE puddle on the floor, right outside the stall. All she had to do was hold it for literally 5 more seconds. Instead, it was all over the floor and the smell was HORRIFIC. I have never smelled anything like it before in my life. I mentioned it to the teacher and got the situation taken care of, but there were other kids going in there and I had to close the bathroom off, because you could smell it from the door.

I just don't know how anybody would or could sit in a poop pants or wet pull up at that age and the mother not really do anything about it. I must say that the mother did ask her about 7 times today if she had to go and she kept saying no. I think she should have just made her go just to get in the habit of trying, instead there was a mess in her pants.

We spent forever trying to get the smell out of my DS room and cleaning and disinfecting everything and my DS didn't understand what was going on. I don't want him to start thinking he can't play with friends at our house, but we can't have this problem either. We did explain that she doesn't go to the potty like she is suppose to and that she had an accident, which we needed to clean out of his room.

There is no problem that the mother admits to with the girl. The school has brought up mention of abuse, which she vehimently denies. I don't see signs of that but there is something not right in her head if she can just go and not think anything of it.

 

[linda0706]

OK, never mind my earlier post about the occasional constipation issues...that obviously is not what is going on here. This is just *NOT RIGHT* on so many levels. Sorry, I don't have any advice. I do think I would have some ready excuses in mind at all times as to why you can't have the girl over to play. What a shame to have to resort to that. You'd think the mom would've brought this up with her pediatrician and figured out what the problem is by now. There most certainly must be underlying issues of some sort going on - physical, emotional, abusive, or whatever.

 

[luvsJack]

The mother has some serious issues and I really think I would decide not to encourage this friendship because of that.

As for the little girl, there has got to be some kind of problem with her. I mean, a 5 year old gets embarrassed about things like that. I cannot imagine her not wanting to go to the bathroom and wear regular panties like the other girls. Most girls this age are all into being princesses and liking all the little "girly" things that make them smell good.

You said that there was a horrible smell when the child urinated. This would indicate some type of UTI or bladder infection or something like that. That would also explain her not being able to hold it 5 more seconds to get inside the stall. ( I have had infections, and so has dd, that when I felt the urge to go I had to go RIGHT THEN.) Maybe there really are medical problems and the mom is just too sorry to take the child to the doctor??

I feel sorry for this poor little girl, the other kids probably don't want to play with her at school if she smells bad and has on wet or messy pull ups all day.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If you tell the mom bluntly and she is abusive and neglectful, the poor kid will probably hear if from mom....
"you cannot play at so & so's house because you are not potty trained".

UGH....poor kid.

 

[mrs.beast]

I teach kindergarten and have had a few wetters. I had 2 kids who wet all year last year. No one even noticed. These 2 would just go wherever they were, literally. Not one kid said a word adn I met with the parents constantly. I would also send them (both a boy and a girl) to the restroom when they arrived at school, at recess, and one more time in the 3 1/2 hours we were at school. I would also have to check that the boy had gone, and not just pretended. The parents of both children saw the doc 3 times during the school year about it (I got notes to prove it) but only 1 improved. The other, a girl, still has had a few accidents in 1st and her teacher has come to me to get clothes from our stash.
I have also had a boy who had BM a few times at school in his pants. His was medical and related to something not being strong enough. cannot remember what it was, but he wore pull ups all year. He was not the least embarassed by it either.
In fact, most of our kids (we have an am/pm) announce it loudly when they have accidents. "Teacher, I wet my pants. Help."
when i taught 1st grade I had a boy who wet 4 days a week all year, no matter what and another who had accidents (BM) in the bathroom a few times too.
I guess what I am saying, is that it is gross, and unusual, but not totally unusual (other than the mom's nutty reaction)

 

[Robindianne]

Maybe she has encopresis; regardless, for her to function in society she must (parents must) figure out how to handle it or she will end up with bigger problems. As a sped teacher I have worked with elementary and middle school kids with this and we put plans (IEPs) in place to help them.

Warning: gross part coming do not scroll down it you don't want to read





































The child with encopresis cannot control it, doesn't feel the urge nor the mess in their pants, and doesn't smell it. They lose the sensations to do that. Parents should get her evaluated and then put her in a pull up (public school is required to allow it if IEP team says so and parent is member of IEP team and can and should insist).

This is a health issue for other kids (must must must contain the waste) and for her (must use pullups and teacher her to use wet wipes ( 5 minimum) , carry extra "potty kits" with clothes, pullups, wipes, paper towels, shoes, socks, plastic ziploc gallon bags, etc Train her to go at certain intervals whether she needs to or not (get it on a schedule), let her go when she has to (have a pass ready or whatever so she can get there fast fast fast), make her sit up (no leaning) on the toilet for 3 minutes, wipe with 5 minimum wipes, dry w/paper towels. The school is doing her (and the other kids) harm by not allowing her to wear pull ups and while mom taking it "in stride" is good for daughter in some ways, she still must take it seriously and deal w/it and not ignore it. People will smell it and ostrasize her. TMI? Sorry

OK off my soapbox. As a teacher and mom, thank you for your kindness to the girl and I would def tell mom what your rules are re: visiting your house again (if you want to try another future visit). You can tell the teacher you think she should be referred for sped services and have teacher talk to the school/district psyche. Or you can tell that part to mom. Either way would be helpful for this child's future.

 

[bumbershoot]

at dinner the girl said she had to go potty and the mother let her "go" at the side of the table while we were eating and it "leaked" through her pull up and then the girl decided she had to have a BM and did it in the lobby as we were leaving.

That is really so disturbing. What mom would be so nonchalant to let a child do such a thing? Even if there's a good reason for it, at least TRY to fit in with society and take the kid to the bathroom, even if you're going to just let her go in her pants while standing in a stall. I'm not normally all about fitting in with society, but in THIS circumstance oh boy am I!

We know darn well we were lucky with DS as he started to be interested in the potty before he was 2, and by 2.5 we had done the final wash of the cloth dipes and put them away, but even if he still hadn't figured out the potty we would be making attempts to show him the proper way. And pooping in a lobby when you're 5 is NOT the way.

As for the little girl, there has got to be some kind of problem with her. I mean, a 5 year old gets embarrassed about things like that. I cannot imagine her not wanting to go to the bathroom and wear regular panties like the other girls. Most girls this age are all into being princesses and liking all the little "girly" things that make them smell good.

You said that there was a horrible smell when the child urinated. This would indicate some type of UTI or bladder infection or something like that. That would also explain her not being able to hold it 5 more seconds to get inside the stall. ( I have had infections, and so has dd, that when I felt the urge to go I had to go RIGHT THEN.) Maybe there really are medical problems and the mom is just too sorry to take the child to the doctor??

I feel sorry for this poor little girl, the other kids probably don't want to play with her at school if she smells bad and has on wet or messy pull ups all day.

I remember being in school, and even having somewhat smelly hair, if it was long and not washed often, was a gross-out. A kid who you even *thought* smelled like pee wasn't going to be your friend. But a kid who didn't just smell like poop but had it ON her? Poor kid.

And even my guy, when he's not playing farting games, wants to smell good (so that princesses will like him you know), and I don't *think* he's that off the norm in terms of that...

First thing I thought of with bad smelling pee was that she ate asparagus, but somehow I doubt that's the issue. Could very well be an infection of some sort. Poor kiddo.

The school is doing her (and the other kids) harm by not allowing her to wear pull ups and while mom taking it "in stride" is good for daughter in some ways, she still must take it seriously and deal w/it and not ignore it.

I agree.

 

[SereneOne]

Even if this girl has a medical problem causing this, she should be in a pull up so it doesn't leak out, and it should be taken care of immediately so she doesn't get a rash. That sounds like flat out neglect. It also sounds like there is more than just that going on. Depending on the situation, I might be tempted to call CPS. If as your post implies there is more going on and you suspect neglect, please call. It does not necessarily mean that the child will be taken away. In most cases that is the last resort. More likely they will try to get the parents the help they need and give them a chance to remedy the situation.

I agree with this. My daughter is five and she does pee in the potty but she had surgery for an imperforate anus with fistula this summer and they found Hirschsprung's disease, so pooping is an issue for her. She wears pull-ups and I change her. I also carry a plastic sealed up bag to take it out of the person's house, either to a public dumpster or back to my own home. However, overly wiping can cause a horrible rash, it happened to my daughter because she was constantly leaking feces and being wiped. The only thing that finally made the rash go away was a constant thick coating of diaper rash ointment and corn starch.

If there is other signs of neglect that you feel warrants a call, do not hesitate to do so. They won't necessarily take the child away, but they will aid the mother in taking better care of her child.

 

[lovemylife]

Maybe she has encopresis; regardless, for her to function in society she must (parents must) figure out how to handle it or she will end up with bigger problems. As a sped teacher I have worked with elementary and middle school kids with this and we put plans (IEPs) in place to help them.

Warning: gross part coming do not scroll down it you don't want to read





































The child with encopresis cannot control it, doesn't feel the urge nor the mess in their pants, and doesn't smell it. They lose the sensations to do that. Parents should get her evaluated and then put her in a pull up (public school is required to allow it if IEP team says so and parent is member of IEP team and can and should insist).

This is a health issue for other kids (must must must contain the waste) and for her (must use pullups and teacher her to use wet wipes ( 5 minimum) , carry extra "potty kits" with clothes, pullups, wipes, paper towels, shoes, socks, plastic ziploc gallon bags, etc Train her to go at certain intervals whether she needs to or not (get it on a schedule), let her go when she has to (have a pass ready or whatever so she can get there fast fast fast), make her sit up (no leaning) on the toilet for 3 minutes, wipe with 5 minimum wipes, dry w/paper towels. The school is doing her (and the other kids) harm by not allowing her to wear pull ups and while mom taking it "in stride" is good for daughter in some ways, she still must take it seriously and deal w/it and not ignore it. People will smell it and ostrasize her. TMI? Sorry

OK off my soapbox. As a teacher and mom, thank you for your kindness to the girl and I would def tell mom what your rules are re: visiting your house again (if you want to try another future visit). You can tell the teacher you think she should be referred for sped services and have teacher talk to the school/district psyche. Or you can tell that part to mom. Either way would be helpful for this child's future.

I tend to agree that this might be the case. She had no idea she had to go and then it did not bother her at all. Her mother did say that at age 2 1/2 she was really constipated and that she refused to go because of that. She thinks that is where this comes from. They still have to be prepared for that days events. She did talk to the school psychologist who basically said that it is in the girls head and she just needs to get over whatever her "glue" is for not going.