Nasty Rumor.....hope it's not true

[phamton]

On Monday January 2rd there was a 4 hour wait for Soarin'? Four hours? When on New Years Eve it was 2 hours and on Sunday January 1st, the wait was typically 80 minutes or less. Four hours? 240 minutes? Honestly, or are you exagerating a bit?

Actually, I thought you went Jan. 1st and, no, I'm not exagerating. See:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=989461&page=1 where another person saw a 4 hour wait on New Years Eve not the 2 hours that you listed. Was she exagerating also? I wasn't at Epcot on New Years Day but one of my friends was and reported the 4 hour wait. She may have been lying but I doubt it. I went on Dec. 21st and waited in line for Soarin' for 100 minutes as all the express was gone. New Years Day was busier than Dec. 21st so I tend to believe the report my friend gave me.

And, you know that Express didn't typically run out on Spider-man by noon on days when the standby wait was 60 minutes. They lasted much longer than that.

Spiderman almost always ran out by 11:00 AM on holidays, SpringBreak, and summer. I'm sorry you don't believe that but it is true. There is no way that Spiderman would have still had free express by noon on Jan. 1st.

I should know by now that there are folks on both the Disney and Universal boards that will defend the companies' decisions no matter how guest unfriendly they are. Should have learned that lesson when Disney first took away Early Entry.

Actually many of us have realized that express pass and fast pass are a bad idea long before the free express pass kiosks were covered. It's not defending the company because we don't know if the express is gone for good or not. I am just of the opinion that it needs to be gone for good at all the themeparks. If Universal does decide to do away with the express forever I will say Bravo to them for having the guts to do it first. Disney will not be long behind them, I am sure. I don't like the paid express either and I also hope that universal stops selling the express pass plus and only gives express to onsite guests.

 

[Slacking]

Yeah, I'm ok with Express for resort guests (I don't like it, but I'm ok with it), because I understand it is an important perk for them to have to attract guests into their hotels.

I hate the Express Plus though. Charging people up to $35 bucks for what used to pretty much be free makes me pretty unhappy.

But the time of the year that I most hate Express? HHN. It messes up the flow of the traffic and it totally inflates the wait times for those of us who have no desire to pay almost 50 bucks to save a few minutes.

The funny thing is that these people who spend all this extra money wouldn't need to if they tour smartly. I have already gone on and on about touring smartly during normal park operation, but this can happen during HHN too (three words: Stay and Scream).

I just think that ever since Disney introduced Fastpass back in the late 90's (was it 99? maybe 98), that was a misdirection in the business (again, just my opinion), and I can't beleive how dependent people have become to these systems. Wait in line, its not gonna kill you..... Thats what amusement parks are all about, in order to ride the rides, the line before the ride is a necessary evil. Or you can be like Cartman on South Park and avoid lines by buying your own park ("And then came Fastpass....... where you had to wait in line just to wait in line")

Random rant that makes no sense is now officially over

 

[lindalinda]

I am absolutely 100% sure that neither Universal or Disney wants to "screw" their guests. That would be totally illogical and fiscally irresponsible. My guess would be that someone, or probably several, respected statiticians have reams of data that they have been evaluationg for years. I'm sure they will make decisions, right or wrong, based on that data. And if it turns out to be harmful to their position, i.e., ppl stop attending the parks, it will be quickly remedied. I, for one, refuse to worry about it.

 

[All Aboard]

First, Phantom, I apologize for sounding inflamatory. I overreacted to your post. Please accept my apologies.

I was at Epcot all day on January 1st. (also NYE, but that's another story). On Sunday January 1st, the crowds at Epcot were quite light. Just a couple of pieces of anecdotal evidence, I realize, but... we walked into a nearly empty Biergarten at 12:30pm with absolutely no one waiting outside. We walked up to a perfect view of Illuminations that night just AFTER it had started.

Perhaps the crowd reports are confusing the two days (NYE v. NYD) because there was probably 2-3 times as many people in Epcot on 12/31 as there were on 1/1.

Anyhow, my day at IOA was Sunday, January 2. And, overall, the crowd was not nearly like it is mid-summer, or spring break, or just the week earlier. It was, though, a nice solid crowd. A crowd that would drive waits on the most popular attractions into the 45-60 minute range fairly consistently. For some reason, Dueling Dragons had only a 10 minute wait.

So, it was the kind of a day where the Express machines would have come in quite handy. Especially to guests that were accustomed to having them there. And, quite honestly, arrived with the expectation that they would be there.

I suppose what stings most about this feels like "yeah, that used to be free, but now you have to pay for it."

No, I don't think Universal (nor Disney) is out to "screw" guests. I do think they are leveraging the service to "force" people to buy them or stay in their resorts (where I would expect discounts to rapidly become a thing of the past) or stand in long lines with no other alternative.

And, honestly, it really doesn't impact me that much. I generally stay at Royal Pacific. Last weekend was unusual where I mixed a Universal and Disney weekend together. I am just thinking about the impact on and the reaction of the vast majority of guests who are not staying at Universal resorts. And, yes, many of them might just feel as if they are being "screwed".

 

[All Aboard]

I just think that ever since Disney introduced Fastpass back in the late 90's (was it 99? maybe 98), that was a misdirection in the business (again, just my opinion), and I can't beleive how dependent people have become to these systems. Wait in line, its not gonna kill you..... Thats what amusement parks are all about, in order to ride the rides, the line before the ride is a necessary evil.

Why is it a "necessary evil?" I'm sure you know that the two greatest complaints about major theme parks are prices and the fact that you spend far more time waiting in line than you do enjoying attractions.

So, to combat that "evil" theme parks like Universal and Disney developed a system where the guest could choose whether he/she wanted to wait in lines. And, used properly, it eliminated the "necessary evil".

You say that "I can't beleive how dependent people have become to these systems." but if something works, you like it and it's offered, why not use it? Do you clean your carpets by hand? Of course not, you use a vacuum cleaner. Now if I said "I can't believe how dependant you have become to your vacuum" you'd take offense to that statement.

"Wait in line, its not gonna kill you." See, that's the whole point of the systems in the first place. Many people don't like standing in lines. Heck, that's why Universal can sell the booklets of Express Passes, and have a strong marketing tool with the resorts. It's because people place a high value on not having to stand in line.

 

[Slacking]

Why is it a "necessary evil?" I'm sure you know that the two greatest complaints about major theme parks are prices and the fact that you spend far more time waiting in line than you do enjoying attractions.

So, to combat that "evil" theme parks like Universal and Disney developed a system where the guest could choose whether he/she wanted to wait in lines. And, used properly, it eliminated the "necessary evil".

You say that "I can't beleive how dependent people have become to these systems." but if something works, you like it and it's offered, why not use it? Do you clean your carpets by hand? Of course not, you use a vacuum cleaner. Now if I said "I can't believe how dependant you have become to your vacuum" you'd take offense to that statement.

"Wait in line, its not gonna kill you." See, that's the whole point of the systems in the first place. Many people don't like standing in lines. Heck, that's why Universal can sell the booklets of Express Passes, and have a strong marketing tool with the resorts. It's because people place a high value on not having to stand in line.

I called it a "necessary evil" because people here obviously don't like waiting in lines. If I have no other choice, I'll wait in line, its part of the amusement park experience.

Amusement parks have been a part of our country for a long time now. Some parks today have been around since the late 1800's (of course they have grown since then, but they have been around since then.) From the late 1800's-1998/9 there was no such thing as a Fast pass, or and express pass. Everyone was pretty much equal and all had to wait in the same line. When I went to Disneyland and Knotts as a kid in the 80's, there was no fastpass, we waited in line whether we liked to or not. Same as when I visited WDW for the first time in '95 or went to the east coast parks in the mid-90's. If you want to ride the rides you had to wait in line. simple as that. Of course as a scoiety we have become rather impatient, so when the Express systems popped up in the late '90s/early 00's people instantly became dependent on them. If you go to a non-chain or small-chain park (which I advise because there are some fantastic parks out there) you're not going to find these systems out there, if you wanna ride you gotta wait in line.

These are a convenience (to some people) that the parks set up in order to (random theories coming up) 1- please the park guests by reducing their time in line and 2- giving the guest more time to possibly eat, shop, and generally spend more money at their park. Now, doesn't the park have a right to take away or change this convenience whenever they want? Sure, its their system not ours. I applaud this move, because that means there are now theoretically less people in the express line slightly reducing the wait in the "standby" line.

Now, reading your posts, its obviously you're upset over the loss of free Express (at least on this visit since you weren't on-site). You almost made it sound like it was something Universal owed you. Once again, its their system, not yours. Sure, you are a paying guest, but I don't see them losig a whole lot of business just because they closed down the machines. Not to try to sound harsh, but if you did a bit of research here or on other boards before your trip you would have known about the Express pass machines and you could have altered your plans based on that.

Now, I personally went to both IOA and USF on new Years Eve. I had no Express passes and you know the longest I had to wait in line on New Years Eve? 20-25 minutes, tops! And yes, I rode everything (except Storm Force, CaroSeussal, and Nutcoaster) and saw a few shows. And I have used Express in the past to my advantage, but do not miss it at all.

Waiting in line is one of those things you should expect to do at a park. Its one of the things (along with high prices) you pretty much agree to when planning to visit a park. If you don't like that Universal is phasing out the Express passes and don't like waiting in lines then just don't go. I wouldn't mind saving a couple minutes in line.

 

[All Aboard]

You almost made it sound like it was something Universal owed you

Not quite. But consumer expectations are driven by what the company has provided in the past, wouldn't you agree?

Not to try to sound harsh, but if you did a bit of research here or on other boards before your trip you would have known about the Express pass machines and you could have altered your plans based on that.

Well, I go to Universal about 5 times a year. The thought "better check the Universal Board to see if Express has been eliminated" didn't cross my mind. You do know, of course, that at least 95% of the guests in Universal parks on any given day have absolutely no idea what the DIS boards are, don't you?

 

[All Aboard]

If you don't like that Universal is phasing out the Express passes and don't like waiting in lines then just don't go.

By the way, this is an extremely dismissive statement that all too often pops up on these boards when someone questions operating practices or has an opinion that is contrary to what is happening at the parks or within the company.

I live more than 250 miles from Orlando, yet I make the trip there at least 10-12 times a year for the sole purpose of enjoying the theme parks with my family. I have a huge personal interest in the parks. I want them to remain great, and to continue to thrive and grow as they are a source of great joy for my family. I have no interest in "not going". Sorry, I think you've confused me with someone who DOESN'T care.

 

[Slacking]

Not quite. But consumer expectations are driven by what the company has provided in the past, wouldn't you agree?

Sure, but that doesn't mean that the company has to always meet those expectations.

Well, I go to Universal about 5 times a year. The thought "better check the Universal Board to see if Express has been eliminated" didn't cross my mind. You do know, of course, that at least 95% of the guests in Universal parks on any given day have absolutely no idea what the DIS boards are, don't you?

Of course. But when visiting the parks to begin with, how many first time visitors or those visiting for the first time since pre-express are expecting the Express pass system. And in the comment I made I was referring to you not to other visitors. You know about the disboards, so it enver hurts to do a quick check-in to take note of any updates. And the machines ahve been down for about 4 months now.

By the way, this is an extremely dismissive statement that all too often pops up on these boards when someone questions operating practices or has an opinion that is contrary to what is happening at the parks or within the company.

I live more than 250 miles from Orlando, yet I make the trip there at least 10-12 times a year for the sole purpose of enjoying the theme parks with my family. I have a huge personal interest in the parks. I want them to remain great, and to continue to thrive and grow as they are a source of great joy for my family. I have no interest in "not going". Sorry, I think you've confused me with someone who DOESN'T care.

Thats fair. And I do know where you're coming from here because I am actually very unhappy with the current state of the Universal parks, but will still go and enjoy them. The Express thing doesn't matter to me, but am unhappy with the decision to make Jaws seasonal, the lack of any sort of new attractions over at IOA, a disappointing HHN in 2005, among other things.

 

[All Aboard]

Thats fair. And I do know where you're coming from here because I am actually very unhappy with the current state of the Universal parks, but will still go and enjoy them. The Express thing doesn't matter to me, but am unhappy with the decision to make Jaws seasonal, the lack of any sort of new attractions over at IOA, a disappointing HHN in 2005, among other things.

Yes, and each of those things have me questioning the direction the UO parks are going in. Especially in light of the unofficial park attendance numbers for 2005, if they are to be believed. Each of those things, and the elimination of the Express system (even if it doesn't matter to you, like HHN doesn't matter to me) has an impact on the guest experience - whether people want to believe that or not.

Universal has been doing a lot of discounting with free days and free Citypasses. They've been doing a lot of "attack" advertising aimed at Disney. Has anyone seen the "comparison to Disney" page on their website? Personally, I think that's stooping to a level that should be embarassing for a corporation. It's just got me scratching my head.

They are great parks. Perhaps GE Universal is serious about wanting to dump them and are in cost cutting mode. I hope the long-range prospects for the parks is still bright.

 

[robvia]

I had never seen the comparison page because I barely ever visit the official web site, except to check park hours. But it was an eye opener. They compare a Disney package to a USF one that puts people in an off site hotel, like the Holliday Inn. No wonder that hotel doesn't have to try. They've got a steady stream of people being put there by USF vacations. That's bad, they really need the 4th budget hotel. They need to buy the old Delta resort property, knock down all the buildings, and build towers like the All Star resorts with a nice pool in the middle. That's what the Delta Resort was, just got old and run down. They could run shuttle busses back and forth to the park entrance.

I also think GE doesn't want to be in the park business. The suits are greedy, and want companies that can bring in millions of dollars of profit in a short period of time, like a blockbuster movie.

 

[ksdave]

Here is a post I made on a different Universal board that was discussing alot of the negative changes being made at UO:

"As someone who lives out of the local area, I can say that the advertising for UO is weak at best when compared to WDW. So many people around here look at me like I have three heads when I tell them how awesome UO is. Advertising in areas outside the southeast would be a big help.
The other worrisome sign I see is the reduction in basic services at the parks, such as parking lot booths, trash pickups, security, etc. As an executive with a company preparing to be sold, these are the same things we are doing to make our books more attractive to potential buyers. We are squeezing every last penney out of the operations side of the house to maximize our value. We also slashed our CAPEX budgets substantially to increase our cash-on-hand projections for next year. Could the same thing be happening at UO now that the contracted hold time is almost over? GE has sold other entities off in the past at some substantially increased values over what they paid simply because they were able to show substantial book values via cutbacks. Maybe the lack of announced capital expenditures (at UO) is for a similar reason?"

The things GE is doing are so similar to what we are doing at my company, it is scary.

 

[phamton]

First, Phantom, I apologize for sounding inflamatory. I overreacted to your post. Please accept my apologies.

No harm. We just have a difference in opinion. As long as there is no name calling, I have no problem with a healthy debate. You were quite civil so you have no need to apologize.

Perhaps the crowd reports are confusing the two days (NYE v. NYD) because there was probably 2-3 times as many people in Epcot on 12/31 as there were on 1/1.

You may be right. Like I said, I wasn't there on either NYE or Day. I did go a few days before Christmas and Soarin' was out of fastpass so we waited in line for over an hour and a half.

 

[Slacking]

I enjoy Soarin', but I feel it is greatly overrated.

Ok, thats my semi-off-topic opinion of the day.

 

[damo]

Do most people even know about the express passes?

 

[macraven]

Do most people even know about the express passes?

i laugh at this damo because with all the trips i made to universal with 3 kids, i never knew about the express pass system......i saw the machines but was too shy to ask anyone on how to use them.........

on one trip when it was hot, my 12 year old took our tickets and used the machine...........but the year after that, we started staying on site and had fotl.

yea 15 trips to universal and we "discovered " the special passes on the umpteenth trip there..............but we always saw everything over and over on our days there and never knew what we missed out on.

i would think lots of people do not pay attention to the machines, never less read the guide books that mentions them.......

you have a good point.......

 

[the Dark Marauder]

I also think GE doesn't want to be in the park business. The suits are greedy, and want companies that can bring in millions of dollars of profit in a short period of time, like a blockbuster movie.

They also try to find ways to cut costs, even at the expense/morale of the employees.

Here is a post I made on a different Universal board that was discussing alot of the negative changes being made at UO:

"As someone who lives out of the local area, I can say that the advertising for UO is weak at best when compared to WDW. So many people around here look at me like I have three heads when I tell them how awesome UO is. Advertising in areas outside the southeast would be a big help.
The other worrisome sign I see is the reduction in basic services at the parks, such as parking lot booths, trash pickups, security, etc. As an executive with a company preparing to be sold, these are the same things we are doing to make our books more attractive to potential buyers. We are squeezing every last penney out of the operations side of the house to maximize our value. We also slashed our CAPEX budgets substantially to increase our cash-on-hand projections for next year. Could the same thing be happening at UO now that the contracted hold time is almost over? GE has sold other entities off in the past at some substantially increased values over what they paid simply because they were able to show substantial book values via cutbacks. Maybe the lack of announced capital expenditures (at UO) is for a similar reason?"

The things GE is doing are so similar to what we are doing at my company, it is scary.

Indeed. I've heard that GE/NBC has made changes that have thrown employee morale in the trash and call-ins have increased due to spite for the changes!