My vent for the day: The child should repeat kindergarten!!

[Camicar]

While I understand your frustration with this situation and I totally agree that keeping her back is most likely for the best, I have to say, if you were my child's teacher I would be extremely angry with you right now. You have photos in your post that could easily identify you if any of your parents were on here, and I'm guessing that with all the information you are giving about this child - youngest in class, older sibling has autism, etc. - the child could be easily identified as well. I really question if you have this child's best interest at heart. This post just really hit a sore spot with me tonight. I would be so embarassed/mad if I ever found out my child's teacher was giving out this type of information about my child/family on a popular internet chat board. I really think you should consider how you would feel if this were your child somebody was complaining about.

This concern is exacatly what I was about to post. Frankly, I am appalled that you are giving out this much information about a child in your care.

 

[mom2boys77]

I felt the same way. I would be very upset if you were discussing me and my child on the internet.

This concern is exacatly what I was about to post. Frankly, I am appalled that you are giving out this much information about a child in your care.

 

[kinntj]

After reading through this thread, I found this chart interesting:

I know when I went into kindergarten (1992), my mom could choose whole or half day.
I went to half day, but I don't remember why. I know we didn't get naps (or recess)... while the whole-day kids, across the hall, did.

Governor Granholm had signed something that she's willing to fund full Day Kindergarden for Michigan. Our school is in research phase right now, but hopes to get on board by 2010. YAY! My DD4 (in K next fall) will just miss that and still have 1/2 day.

Michigan just has so much cash hanging around right now for this.

 

[mjkacmom]

Wow, what state do you live in that still only has 1/2 day kindergarten? The year my DD started kindergarten, she turned 5 in mid-October and I thought that was late. I can't imagine not turning 5 until February. That's just too late.

We have 1/2 day kindergarted - it's not mandated by the state, although what kills me is that the state of NJ is making full day preschool mandatory for low income families. The only reason we don't have full day kindergarten is that we don't have room for it. With mandatory public preschool, we're never getting full day kindergarten. I honestly have no idea why preschool has to be all day! We've always paid for preschool, but 3 hours a day tops.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I have to disagree with you on this point. My first grade class was beyond those basic skills on the first day of school. Many kids could read simple sentences and do basic addition and subtraction using a number grid. First grade is not what it used to be be, especially in our district. Right now they are studying the different properties of solids and liquids including the differences between the words viscuous, translucent and transparent. We are also working on writing stories that have an opening sentence, a middle and a closing sentence. We never did that when I was in first grade!

With so many kids going to two years of preschool, you can tell the ones that skip preschool altogether. It is sad to say, but they really are behind. Skipping kindergarten is not an option at all in our district.

Then we now have 13 years of primary education. And our children are worse educated, on average, than they have been in a very long time. Maybe we need to think about that a bit. Maybe we are missing the point...

 

[PrincessKsMom]

We still have half day kindergarten in NJ. Your story makes me sad. I have a kindergartener and I would take a teachers suggestion very seriously. Are you not allowed to "fail" them in Kindergarten. Making the decision that she cannot move on?

Wow, not where I am. We are required by the state to have PreK and Kindergarten is mandatory -- full day.

OP: I can see you have this child's best interests at heart, but I can also see the parent's side of things, if the mom is a working mom. As sad as it might sound, she may have the child's best interests at heart -- being able to provide a roof over her head and meals for her to eat. It is extremely hard, when you're a working mom, to find someone willing to pick up your child in the middle of the day, because most of those who are babysitting have more than 1 child they watch and it's unrealistic to ask them to go out with those other children to pick up yours from school. And maybe the best place for the child is in a structured school environment, even if she's not developing as quickly as her classmates. Just another view in a very confusing situation.

 

[mjkacmom]

Hmmm, well I will disagree with most on this thread. I think that kindergarten should be optional. I think that there should be a basic skills test to enter 1st grade. I think that, other than developing those basic skills, kindergarten's primary role is in preparing a child for the discipline of the classroom environment. That is, teaching them to raise their hands when they have questions, follow directions, respect others, etc.

If the child can write their name, say the alphabet, knows their colors and basic shapes - the child is ready for 1st grade. If not, the child is not ready. It isn't about repeating a grade (if K can even be called a "grade"). It is about whether or not the child has the requisite skills to succeed.

It should not be subjective...

If that's all a child knows, he or she is not ready for first grade, where they need to be able to read before starting. The skills you mentioned are what kids here need to know before starting kindergarten. Most kids go to preschool, where they learn how to behave in a classroom, as well as learn their letter, numbers, colors, etc.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

If that's all a child knows, he or she is not ready for first grade, where they need to be able to read before starting. The skills you mentioned are what kids here need to know before starting kindergarten. Most kids go to preschool, where they learn how to behave in a classroom, as well as learn their letter, numbers, colors, etc.

As I said, then 1st grade is no longer 1st grade. It is now 2nd grade...

 

[disney1990]

After reading through this thread, I found this chart interesting:

I know when I went into kindergarten (1992), my mom could choose whole or half day.
I went to half day, but I don't remember why. I know we didn't get naps (or recess)... while the whole-day kids, across the hall, did.

Yes, I remember when kindergartners got naps; but those days are gone too. Now it is considered a full work day.

 

[Kathi OD]

Yes, I remember when kindergartners got naps; but those days are gone too. Now it is considered a full work day.

Which many children that age are just not ready for and it has nothing to do with their ability to learn or socialize. I know quite a few 5 year olds who still require a rest period in the afternoon, especially after a busy morning.

 

[famofsix]

so it is OK to vent about your co-workers bad habits, your neighbor's dog barking, the neighborhood bully, your freaky relatives, your observations of people at the Disney or the Walmart checkout, what stupid people say who call your non-profit, your marital problems, your child's ADHD, OD, GI issues, your daughter's menstrual problems, celebrities not limited to Obama, Bush, or Oct-mom, or anything else

but if you post a vent as a frustrated teacher then all heaven breaks loose

OP did take out the personal stuff and everyone was right to call her on that OP works with parents and children she should not be reprimanded for venting about her job

 

[Aisling]

I felt the same way. I would be very upset if you were discussing me and my child on the internet.

It wouldn't bother me if someone discussed me or my child on an internet message board, as long as names and faces were kept anonymous.

 

[kami2199]

so it is OK to vent about your co-workers bad habits, your neighbor's dog barking, the neighborhood bully, your freaky relatives, your observations of people at the Disney or the Walmart checkout, what stupid people say who call your non-profit, your marital problems, your child's ADHD, OD, GI issues, your daughter's menstrual problems, celebrities not limited to Obama, Bush, or Oct-mom, or anything else

but if you post a vent as a frustrated teacher then all heaven breaks loose

OP did take out the personal stuff and everyone was right to call her on that OP works with parents and children she should not be reprimanded for venting about her job

While I think venting on a board like this is perfectly ok, it is the identifying stuff that I think upsets some of us. She did take that down to her credit.

I don't see where all heavan has broken loose. Obviously the OP sees our point of view and has determined that the best thing to do is to remove the information that identifies who this child is should the mother or anyone else who is familiar with this child/teacher stumble across the thread.

It was the right thing to do. This is a child we are talking about here. A child who according to this teacher is struggling and a mother who may or may not have a good and valid reason to allow it to continue. Who are we to automatically defend and take the teachers side in this scenario anyhow. Alot of people have jumped to conclusions that the mother basically wants free daycare/time away from her children due to the difficulty of raising a child with special needs. Perhaps this teacher has a problem with this mother/child for some reason other than stated (like not thinking she's mature enough to eat crackers without making a mess - from what I have read, the OP has no children and may not realize that there are 10 year olds out there who still have this problem, lol). Who knows, we only hear her side of things and I don't think any of us personally knows her. I've dealt with a couple of bad teachers in my lifetime - one especially who seemed to want to belittle my child every chance she got for some unknown reason.

Or, maybe she is the most wonderful teacher in the world and truly cares about this child's success and feels that the mother really doesn't care what is best for this kid and is venting her frustration to get opinions and ideas on what to do - this is most likely the case.

Now she is on here "venting" and giving out enough info that this child could easily be identified. I know in my dd's class (70 kids entire class) if you were to describe a kid that is the youngest in class and has a sibling with autism one year older, I could tell you exactly who it is (hypothetically speaking). And I promise you if I couldn't, one phone call is all it would take to find out who it is.

Now, she is on here giving up info that in my opinion should be confidential (I think alot of that info has been removed) between the teacher/parent/admin and she has given a picture of herself as well as painted a pretty good picture of the student. And lets face it, there are plenty of parents out there who like gossip and would be emailing all their friends about the thread where Mrs. Ember is venting about little Janie. This could really do some damage - to both the family and the teacher's career.

For those of you just joining this thread - there was a lot more information provided about this child as well as several photos of the teacher (I am assuming anyway) herself. If those were not there in the first place, I would have less of a problem with it.

 

[castleview]

I still don't believe full day kindergarten is necessary. My DDs went from 8:45-11:30 for kindergarten. They came out knowing basic math facts and reading. It can be done. Any time there's a push for full day kindergarten, it's coming from parents who work full time and don't want to pay the $5 an hour for the preschool/daycare program two blocks away that has its own bus to pick up the kids.

OP, does your school have a screening process or a readiness/transitional program? If so, maybe the principal can find a parent of a child in that position to speak at orientation. Our principal did that and it was a great idea. A lot of parents don't know the benefits of holding out a kid who is ready age wise but not maturity wise. Unfortunately, the ones I know find out too late.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I still don't believe full day kindergarten is necessary. My DDs went from 8:45-11:30 for kindergarten. They came out knowing basic math facts and reading. It can be done. Any time there's a push for full day kindergarten, it's coming from parents who work full time and don't want to pay the $5 an hour for the preschool/daycare program two blocks away that has its own bus to pick up the kids.

I'd like to live where you do -- $5 an hour for daycare and its own bus!

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I'd like to live where you do -- $5 an hour for daycare and its own bus!

Probably talking about after-care...

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Probably talking about after-care...

You're probably right, but where I'm from, after-care is something supplied in the school, daycare is provided by an entirely different company/babysitter, etc. I guess the bus is what threw me.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

I don't know if any of you have read the book "Outliers" but he makes a really interesting point: kids who are the youngest in the class when they start school tend to do worse in school, and the effect continues all the way through, including university. So where the school cut-off is Dec. 31st, the kids born in the last three months of the year are more likely to fail a grade, more likely to get poor grades, less likely to go to university, less likely to get a graduate degree, etc. His point is that at 4 or 5 or 6, a few months makes a big difference in maturity and ability. These kids get the idea early on that school is harder for them than other kids, that they aren't smart, etc. Even though the actual differences even out as the years go by, the kids are still affected by their early experiences.

So if you can keep your child back, so that he or she becomes one of the older children in the class rather than one of the youngest, that child will reap life-long benefits!

Teresa (and two of my four children were born in October, but I homeschooled them during the early years. Both are now university graduates with top grades; one has completed her Masters and the other just finished his undergrad degree with distinction and will be going to grad school in a year)

 

[castleview]

Probably talking about after-care...

Yes, the local preschool does a before and after care. Grades 1-5 are at the school cafeteria while kindergarteners take the bus from school there. I'm in Connecticut (which is usually more expensive). Maybe it's cheaper because the school allows the private preschool to use their facility before and after school. It works for the school also since they've been able to avoid funding it themselves.

 

[LisaNJ25]

We have 1/2 day kindergarted - it's not mandated by the state, although what kills me is that the state of NJ is making full day preschool mandatory for low income families. The only reason we don't have full day kindergarten is that we don't have room for it. With mandatory public preschool, we're never getting full day kindergarten. I honestly have no idea why preschool has to be all day! We've always paid for preschool, but 3 hours a day tops.

I think its going by district.. Ours has had 1/2 pre-k for 5+ years now.. than all day Kindergarten. In the fall they are going to all day pre-k but its open to everyone in the district.