My vent for the day: The child should repeat kindergarten!!

[FSUDisneyGirl]

DisneyBamaFan-

all the kindergarten teachers (and others) at my school agree that "Kindergarten is the new first grade"...meaning they don't learn the old kindergarten basics- they learn to read, basic math (not just counting), etc. It's really crazy how much they have to do.

That being said, our district is in a HUGE financial crunch right now, and I'm guessing they may choose to go to half day kindergarten. I think that our school day is MUCH TOO LONG for our kindergarteners...9:15 (most get there by 8:45 on buses) to 3:45 (most get on buses at 4). They just seem so worn out by the end of the day. I remember nap time in full-day kindergarten (and I'm only 25)...when did little kids suddenly not need a rest anymore?

Also...if they gave a "basic skills test" for 1st grade, many of our kids would not pass it if not in our kindergarten...many of our kids come to kindergarten not knowing how to write or spell their names, don't know shapes or colors, don't numbers or addresses...heck, a bunch don't even know their last names!

 

[MM27]

Former 1/2 day NJ kindergartner here! Holy cow! It's STILL 1/2 day there?

When we lived in FL there was a couple who lived behind us that had a little one in kindergarten. They planned to go back to NY. When they talked to schools up there, they were told that their son would need to repeat kinder in order to "catch up" with the other kids.

I can't imagine not having a full day kindergarten.

It's not full day everywhere in NJ. I was a 1/2 day kindergartner too. I know of a couple of districts around me that are still 1/2 day, but quite a few have gone to full day.

That's why I work where I do. Educators run the school, not parents.

Any job openings

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

DisneyBamaFan-

all the kindergarten teachers (and others) at my school agree that "Kindergarten is the new first grade"...meaning they don't learn the old kindergarten basics- they learn to read, basic math (not just counting), etc. It's really crazy how much they have to do.

That is a shame. At that age, the social skills are so much more important, as lessons.

...Also...if they gave a "basic skills test" for 1st grade, many of our kids would not pass it if not in our kindergarten...many of our kids come to kindergarten not knowing how to write or spell their names, don't know shapes or colors, don't numbers or addresses...heck, a bunch don't even know their last names!

Wow! Do parents just not care, anymore?

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

OP--I so feel your pain!

I am a first grade teacher. When I suggested to a parent that her child repeat first grade last year, Mom's response was "but she is so tall!" HELLO--SHE CANNOT READ!!! People take it as a personal insult to them when you make such a suggestion. They think it is a direct reflection on them as human beings. It's not--some kids just need more time. No different than riding a two-wheeler--they all don't do it at the same time.

Mom did see things my way (finally). She is a single parent, barely making ends meet, etc., etc. When I told her the work involved for her in trying to keep her child from drowning in the second grade, she immediately saw things my way.

It's sad because many people turn around and then blame teachers when kids graduate from high school not being able to read. Parents...

 

[EMom]

Also...if they gave a "basic skills test" for 1st grade, many of our kids would not pass it if not in our kindergarten...many of our kids come to kindergarten not knowing how to write or spell their names, don't know shapes or colors, don't numbers or addresses...heck, a bunch don't even know their last names!

That reminds me of when DD was in preschool and there was a boy in her class with the same name as her. (Different spelling, but sounds the same.) They differentiated between the two of them by calling her by her first AND last name and simply called him by his first name only. I asked her why she was the one who got stuck with being callled "Chris Brown" instead of "Kris" and why the boy wasn't called by his last name as well. She replied, "He doesn't KNOW his last name." Well, I guess that answered my question.

In fairness, this was when they were in the 3 y.o. class.

 

[Kathi OD]

That's why I work where I do. Educators run the school, not parents.

I'm not sure where you work, but I've worked in both private and public schools and experienced it in both places. My experience has been that it is more prevalent at the elementary, rather than high school, level.

 

[Tink888]

That's a tough situation - I have to say though, I think the district has as much a part in that mess as the parent. Why on earth would the district make the cut-off date six months into the school year? In my area the cut-off date is October 1st. Most kids go to pre-school for two years and they can't get into pre-school until age 3.

Think about it - a lot of times the parents in the biggest hurry to get their kids off to school aren't going to put much thought into whether or not the child is actually ready for kindergarten (it's not right but it happens all the time). But hey, the school says it's a-okay to send a child who will be four the majority of the year. They send them and then here everyone is in the middle of an issue that could have been avoided in the first place.

You might not be able to do much for this little girl but you could take her example to the administration and school board and maybe they'd consider changing their cut-off date in an effort to prevent circumstances like this from occurring in the future. It just seems like the district is asking for these kind of scenarios to occur by having such a late cut-off date KWIM?

 

[themarquis]

It sounds from what you're saying that what is happening is that the mom a) needs full-time childcare (due to monetary reasons?), b) is completely overwhelmed with caring for a disabled child, and/or c) doesn't totally grasp that this child's issues (maturity, etc.) are as severe as they are.

Whatever it is (some combination of them?), it doesn't sound like the mom is malicious or neglectful. Maybe overwhelmed, maybe confused, maybe at wit's end, maybe just not listening to what others (the experts, so to speak) have to say.

I can see why as the teacher of the child, you are frustrated and concerned and annoyed. As the teacher, the only thing you are concerned about is the welfare of this child -- you just want things to happen so that this child's needs are met.

That being said, I can also see why sometimes parents in a position like this might make unwise choices. And lord knows that all parents make unwise choices sometimes. I think that sometimes happens because they are basing their decisions on a range of things, not just the specific needs of one child. Sometimes a decision might be based on the needs of the family as a whole. And sometimes, especially in the case of a family with a disabled child, one set of needs (right or wrong) end up taking priority.

 

[kami2199]

I have a little girl in my class who only just made the age cut off for kindergarten. She only just turned 5 this month while the other students are all turning 6. She doesn't know her letters, their sounds, or her numbers. She has fine motor and minor speech issues and is receiving OT help. The OT also recommends repeating. She is very immature and is not even capable of eating her snack without a baby wipe after to clean her face and hands. (Seriously, how anyone can make that much of a mess with crackers is beyond me! LOL)

Back before Christmas I spoke to mom about having her repeat. Mom was all on board. Now she tell me she thinks that the child is ready for grade one because they "have been working at home with her."

The most frustrating thing is that I know that the reason isn't because mom feels this is best for the child, but because she wants the child at school for the full day rather then the 1/2 day for kindergarten. She came right out and said so reasoning that the child can repeat grade one if she needs "because at least that is full day."

Grr! I hate seeing children forced to struggle when there is no reason for it. One more year to develop and mature and this child would be set up for success rather then failure.

Why do parents even have kids if they don't want to do what's best for them??

While I understand your frustration with this situation and I totally agree that keeping her back is most likely for the best, I have to say, if you were my child's teacher I would be extremely angry with you right now. You have photos in your post that could easily identify you if any of your parents were on here, and I'm guessing that with all the information you are giving about this child - youngest in class, older sibling has autism, etc. - the child could be easily identified as well. I really question if you have this child's best interest at heart. This post just really hit a sore spot with me tonight. I would be so embarassed/mad if I ever found out my child's teacher was giving out this type of information about my child/family on a popular internet chat board. I really think you should consider how you would feel if this were your child somebody was complaining about.

 

[Sherwin]

There's no litmus test for Kindergarten?

Ok, no, seriously, I'm totally kidding. Please don't take me seriously.

I think you should consult a school counselor and arrange a meeting between them along with the parent. It's important to evaluate whether or not she is prepared to go on.

 

[JennaTX]

I started my DD in K at the age of 4, her birthday (Sept 1st) was the cut off day. However, she was already reading at the time. I worked very closely with her K teacher because I was worried about starting her early and I knew if I needed to hold her back, I would rather do it then.

Hopefully this Mom will see reason and keep her child back. I think K is the easiest to do this, this is no "stigma" of being held back. I remember my DD telling me about a child in her K class that repeated, and she was told it was because the teachers just loved him so much, that they wanted him to stay. I thought that was so sweet and at that age, they totally believe it!

 

[Blueeyes101817]

DisneyBamaFan-

all the kindergarten teachers (and others) at my school agree that "Kindergarten is the new first grade"...meaning they don't learn the old kindergarten basics- they learn to read, basic math (not just counting), etc. It's really crazy how much they have to do. .

I am a Kindergarten teacher at a full day program in NJ--we have 30 word wall words by the end of the year, we are now working on basic addition and subtraction, we are sounding out words while reading books. Its definitely a lot different than Kindergarten when I was a kid (and im 24 now!)

 

[ajk912]

Hmmm, well I will disagree with most on this thread. I think that kindergarten should be optional. I think that there should be a basic skills test to enter 1st grade. I think that, other than developing those basic skills, kindergarten's primary role is in preparing a child for the discipline of the classroom environment. That is, teaching them to raise their hands when they have questions, follow directions, respect others, etc.

If the child can write their name, say the alphabet, knows their colors and basic shapes - the child is ready for 1st grade. If not, the child is not ready. It isn't about repeating a grade (if K can even be called a "grade"). It is about whether or not the child has the requisite skills to succeed.

It should not be subjective...

Actually, for VA those are on the kindergarten ENTRANCE exam. If you don't know those the April before going into K (all kids are tested, btw) they recommend the child go to summer school.

As for DRA, around here at the end of K they are suposed to have a 12, or is it 14? It might be 14/16 at the beginning of first grade. It's been a few years since I had a K kid!

 

[Disney1fan2002]

I don't think it's the county's or the state's job to provide free daycare for the parents. I am all for having kindergarten be a half day program for everyone. I agree, it's an annoyance from the daycare prospective...my daughter is going into K next year and it's certainly better for MY budget to have her be in school till 3:40 instead of 12:40!

My sister did this....my niece was born in August. 2 weeks after her 5th brithday, she went to K. She was a "young" 5yo. She struggled in K, and it was recommended to my sister that she be held back. My sister did not agree, and had her sent on to 1st grade, where it was recommended that she repeat. This time, my sister went along with it, and she was held back. I asked her why she didn't have her held back in K, as she obviously was struggling. My sister replied, that she wanted her in 1st grade so she didn't have to pay for daycare anymore.

I guess I can see her point. Once you don't have daycare costs anymore, it makes a huge difference in your budget.

 

[GJM]

[QUOTEThat's why I work where I do. Educators run the school, not parents][/QUOTE]

Not all educators know what they are talking about -

My DS started his new school in lst. grade in March. We moved from NJ to SC. School here is very different, they teach Everyday Math, he didn't use that in NJ. He was behind in reading for lst. grade in SC. With the cut off in NJ he was one of the older kids.

The teacher in lst. grade wanted to hold him back, we told her we would have him tutored over the summer. She was still insistant on holding him back. We went to the principal and spoke with her about tutoring over the summer and he would take the reading test in Aug.

My neighbor was a wonderful teacher who tutored him 3 days a week over the summer. He past the reading test and moved on to 2nd. grade. He also had a wonderful 2nd. grade teacher. This year he is in 3rd. grade and on the A/B Honor Roll.

Honestly, I am so happy we didn't listen to his lst. grade teacher or the curriculum leader. They just were set on holding him back, even with tutoring. Some parents have to fight for their kids, not all teachers have the answers.

 

[luvmy3]

We have 1/2 day here where I am in NY and our cut off is Dec1.
I have a kindergartener who was 4 when he started and he was struggling with his alphabet and writing when he first started. I was very concerned he was not ready to attend but I enrolled him anyway. I have worked (and still do) with him everyday and I am happy to say that he is his completely on par with where he should be, he can write anything and he is reading at a 1st grade level with minimal help. I knew that I could devote the time outside of school to teach him myself, but if I couldn't do it I would have never sent him. If his teacher ever came to me and said he needs to repeat I would take her advice to heart and just do it, because it would be the best thing for him. Its a shame that this mom doesn't see things like that.
Anyway OP, I don't think there is much you can do except try to make sure this student as prepared for 1st as they can be, even though that will just make it the 1st grade teachers problem. Maybe after the mom sees that her child wasn't really prepared and behind everyone else, she'll start listening.

 

[Ember]

While I understand your frustration with this situation and I totally agree that keeping her back is most likely for the best, I have to say, if you were my child's teacher I would be extremely angry with you right now. You have photos in your post that could easily identify you if any of your parents were on here, and I'm guessing that with all the information you are giving about this child - youngest in class, older sibling has autism, etc. - the child could be easily identified as well. I really question if you have this child's best interest at heart. This post just really hit a sore spot with me tonight. I would be so embarassed/mad if I ever found out my child's teacher was giving out this type of information about my child/family on a popular internet chat board. I really think you should consider how you would feel if this were your child somebody was complaining about.

You make a very valid point. One I hadn't thought about. But I do ask you to consider that it really doesn't make an ounce of difference to my position if the child repeats or not. I will have a new class next year anyway, either way. Perhaps I shouldn't care if the child struggles or fails. Really, it's not my child, right? I could do my job and come home and that could be the end of it.

But you are right in that I shouldn't have chosen here to let my frustration out, regardless of the fact that I am extremely confident it will not be seen. I have since removed the second post which I believe contains most of the identifying information and contacted the one poster to quoted it to ask if they would remove it as well. I have also removed the pictures for now. At this point, I consider this to be the best I can do until the post drifts into the void in a few days time. As hard as it can be be to admit a mistake, thank you for pointing out I had made one.

 

[Mkrop]

While I understand your frustration with this situation and I totally agree that keeping her back is most likely for the best, I have to say, if you were my child's teacher I would be extremely angry with you right now. You have photos in your post that could easily identify you if any of your parents were on here, and I'm guessing that with all the information you are giving about this child - youngest in class, older sibling has autism, etc. - the child could be easily identified as well. I really question if you have this child's best interest at heart. This post just really hit a sore spot with me tonight. I would be so embarassed/mad if I ever found out my child's teacher was giving out this type of information about my child/family on a popular internet chat board. I really think you should consider how you would feel if this were your child somebody was complaining about.

I do believe you care but please I agree with the above you need to be careful what you post if you have pictures in your signature or a location posted. If you were just an anoynmous name on this board, I would say vent away. If you were my child's teacher and I saw you complaining, I would be livid.

I have no probelm with people being frustrated as a parent or a teacher but you need to be cautious about your venting.

 

[Jeafl]

If the child can write their name, say the alphabet, knows their colors and basic shapes - the child is ready for 1st grade. It should not be subjective...

I have to disagree with you on this point. My first grade class was beyond those basic skills on the first day of school. Many kids could read simple sentences and do basic addition and subtraction using a number grid. First grade is not what it used to be be, especially in our district. Right now they are studying the different properties of solids and liquids including the differences between the words viscuous, translucent and transparent. We are also working on writing stories that have an opening sentence, a middle and a closing sentence. We never did that when I was in first grade!

With so many kids going to two years of preschool, you can tell the ones that skip preschool altogether. It is sad to say, but they really are behind. Skipping kindergarten is not an option at all in our district.

 

[kami2199]

You make a very valid point. One I hadn't thought about. But I do ask you to consider that it really doesn't make an ounce of difference to my position if the child repeats or not. I will have a new class next year anyway, either way. Perhaps I shouldn't care if the child struggles or fails. Really, it's not my child, right? I could do my job and come home and that could be the end of it.

But you are right in that I shouldn't have chosen here to let my frustration out, regardless of the fact that I am extremely confident it will not be seen.

I'm glad you see where I'm coming from. Whether or not it makes a difference if this child repeats or not is not the issue I have with your post. I'm glad that you care about this child and her struggles enough to want to help her.

I opened a thread, just something out of the blue, on here one day. It wasn't discussing any particular area, event, etc. and within the first page, I found somebody who was only 15 miles from me and someone who knew a lot of the same people that I did. As a matter of fact, this person was on the exact same plane to Disney that I had been on. And I live in a VERY rural, remote area. I never thought that would happen.

Think of how most of us found these boards - most likely through an internet search for all things Disney related or from a friend. I would venture to guess that there are kids in your class who have been to Disney...or even just kids in your school. Maybe a parent at your school is planning a trip there this summer and has found these boards. There are so many people who just lurk around here and not post at all - EVER. I didn't for the first 2 years I was on here.

My point is, please don't have a false sense of confidence about your post not being seen. You could really hurt/embarrass these people and if I were the mother, I personally would be calling for your job right now for posting about my child/family on an internet board in the manner you are. No it's not the worst I've seen but calling my child immature, poking fun of how messy of an eater she may be, discussing how I want the daycare and not what is best for my child, etc. would be enough for me to cause a stir with your principal, superintendent or school board.