My Space and kids

[java]

My kids don't myspace at home. And they can't access it at school. He doesn't have a cell phone. But I suppose he could get his hands on one if he really wanted to - right now he doesn't have the time to.
I've seen my space friend's lists and locations on those lists cause breakups with my sister!! How silly. I just don't get it.

 

[Ariel Mae]

I don't believe the issue is Myspace, itself, but the users.

Myspace is really well thought out. They police it as it should be. They ban IPs, they watch for underaged citizens...but if someone disguises themselves, it's not up to Myspace to verify it, because that would be rather hard to do.

Myspace allows for privacy. Myspace does not force children to enter a real location, a real image of themselves, or real information on themselves. That is up to the children/teens/adults.

So, in truth, it's the users that are the problem, not Myspace.

 

[orljustin]

You toss someone's application based on them having a Myspace page? How is that even logical?

It's like my Criminal Justice teacher said: You're going to find someone's Myspace, probably, that you're about to hire, but to discriminate based on it is a bit absurd, because, often, one's Myspace is nothing like one's personality.

It's perfectly logical. I'm looking for photographs of models. I don't have time to turn off music, dig through blog posts, look at web cams pics and all the crap that people put on their page.

Sorry, that's my opinion. I know people think mySpace is a great "business networking" thing, but to me, it's just a jumble of bits and bytes.

And to your teacher, I surely would. That is an image they are presenting to the outside world of themselves, and it is a reflection of their personality. Otherwise, it wouldn't be like it is.

What's your page?

 

[Ariel Mae]

It's perfectly logical. I'm looking for photographs of models. I don't have time to turn off music, dig through blog posts, look at web cams pics and all the crap that people put on their page.

And Myspace is the only location for photographs of said models?

Sorry, that's my opinion. I know people think mySpace is a great "business networking" thing, but to me, it's just a jumble of bits and bytes.

To each their own opinion. Mine is that it is very well put together, if used correctly.

And to your teacher, I surely would. That is an image they are presenting to the outside world of themselves, and it is a reflection of their personality. Otherwise, it wouldn't be like it is.

Often, it's a reflection, like with children, of who they want to be, not who they really are.

I agree with my teacher. One's website should not interefere with whether or not they get hired.

What's your page?

A friend's only page that I only release to those that I know personally.

 

[harleyquinn]

orljustin isn't the only one not hiring someone because of their Myspace page. I've actually heard of it happening to a lot of people. They even did some stories on the national news about it.

A lot of employers are looking at potential employee's sites and I don't blame them. If you're dumb enough to put things on your page that an employer would object to, then you shouldn't get the job.

There were stories about people with very tame things on their sites that were rejected because of them. You have to be careful what you put out into cyberspace when you are job hunting or think you might ever do so. lol

The point is, your teacher might be right, but businesses are still going to do it. Unless we pass a no MySpace discrimination law. lol

 

[Caboosey]

You toss someone's application based on them having a Myspace page? How is that even logical?

It's like my Criminal Justice teacher said: You're going to find someone's Myspace, probably, that you're about to hire, but to discriminate based on it is a bit absurd, because, often, one's Myspace is nothing like one's personality.

I work in the summers at a Girl Scout Camp, and was Assistant Camp Director this past summer. At some point in the future, I will probably be making hiring decisions for my camp. I would absolutely check out applicants on MySpace, and their pages would definitely help me in my decision making process to hire them or not hire them. Everything on their MySpace page is information they are choosing to put out there in the world about themselves - why not make judgements based on it? To ignore information seems irresponsible.

I have tried to warn my younger counselors to keep an eye on what they're putting out there about themselves. While I do understand college life and having fun with your friends, if I see a young girl's page is all about how much she loves to play beer pong with her friends, I'm going to question if she is going to want to spend nine weeks in the woods making friendship bracelets and singing silly songs. And you know what, maybe it is absurd - I enjoy beer pong AND friendship bracelets, and I'm one of the best staff members at my camp - but she is choosing to put those pictures up there.

I like MySpace, it's an easy way to stay in touch with friends from high school, college, and camp. But my profile is private, and only for a select audience.

 

[NotUrsula]

I don't disqualify someone just because they *have* a MySpace page -- I disqualify them based on the page's content. If I can see that page so can clients, and if the images/sentiments are something that might cause a client to lose confidence in the firm or gain an unfavorable impression of the staff member in question (and my good judgement in hiring that person), you bet your bippy I'm ditching that resume.

Quite frankly, I often find lots of lovely info on things that by law I'm not allowed to actually ask about, but as everyone should know by now, if you volunteer the information, I'm within my rights to use it. If you've posted it on MySpace (or any other social networking site), then you've volunteered it. (Oh, and btw, web crawlers CAN index the "private" pages, and I've got access to lots of indexes.)

It really doesn't matter if the photo is 10 years old, because laypeople have a tendency to believe that anything found on the web is current. Go ahead and have your H.S. fantasies -- just use your brain and don't post them on a website.

 

[Ariel Mae]

I work in the summers at a Girl Scout Camp, and was Assistant Camp Director this past summer. At some point in the future, I will probably be making hiring decisions for my camp. I would absolutely check out applicants on MySpace, and their pages would definitely help me in my decision making process to hire them or not hire them. Everything on their MySpace page is information they are choosing to put out there in the world about themselves - why not make judgements based on it? To ignore information seems irresponsible.

Because it's not a credible source to the person's personality and/or interests. It may say something, but it doesn't mean anything unless they say, "Hey, by the way, what I put on my Myspace is fact."

It's what we're taught in College. One's Myspace, one's websites, does not matter in credibility of being hired.

They may use it as a mere communication link between themselves and family. So what if they put inappropriate pictures up, if it's a private profile, for their spouse to see? It doesn't hurt their credibility if their spouse is in, say, Iraq, and only wants to see his wife at her sexiest.

I have tried to warn my younger counselors to keep an eye on what they're putting out there about themselves. While I do understand college life and having fun with your friends, if I see a young girl's page is all about how much she loves to play beer pong with her friends, I'm going to question if she is going to want to spend nine weeks in the woods making friendship bracelets and singing silly songs. And you know what, maybe it is absurd - I enjoy beer pong AND friendship bracelets, and I'm one of the best staff members at my camp - but she is choosing to put those pictures up there.

And how are we to know if what they put on Myspace is fact? One may say they're drinkers, but they may only be saying that for 'points' with friends, sadly.

She's choosing to put the pictures up there, the information, because it's her choice, her profile. And who's to say she didn't do it before she thought of going into the job?

I like MySpace, it's an easy way to stay in touch with friends from high school, college, and camp. But my profile is private, and only for a select audience.

Ditto.

I don't disqualify someone just because they *have* a MySpace page -- I disqualify them based on the page's content. If I can see that page so can clients, and if the images/sentiments are something that might cause a client to lose confidence in the firm or gain an unfavorable impression of the staff member in question (and my good judgement in hiring that person), you bet your bippy I'm ditching that resume.

You'll ditch a resume of a good person based on one little url? What if the person's resume is good, but the Myspace photos questionable? What do you do there? It's like in real life. You give the person a chance, not the website.

Quite frankly, I often find lots of lovely info on things that by law I'm not allowed to actually ask about, but as everyone should know by now, if you volunteer the information, I'm within my rights to use it. If you've posted it on MySpace (or any other social networking site), then you've volunteered it. (Oh, and btw, web crawlers CAN index the "private" pages, and I've got access to lots of indexes.)

Web crawlers can index the private pages, but overall, if it's set to private, it's set to private, and it's not up for business eyes. So you're not within your rights, according to law and order, according to what we have been taught for years in criminal justice and web based classes.

It really doesn't matter if the photo is 10 years old, because laypeople have a tendency to believe that anything found on the web is current. Go ahead and have your H.S. fantasies -- just use your brain and don't post them on a website.

The tendency to believe such does not make it true. If the photo is ten years old, it's not credible. It's the past, not the present. It's rarely going to effect the present.

Have your fantasies, post them online all you want. (Myspace is by far the least of our worries. You have people doing such here, on this forum, on many message boards, so if you're going to discredit one, it's only fair to discredit and check all.

One's Myspace does not clarify one's potential, not to the highest extent, nor the lowest.

Employers are taught this. My Criminal Justice teacher was told that if one of his potential Employees, or Firearms Managers, has a provocative Myspace, the only thing he can do is question it, but he can't discredit the person based upon it.

It's the same with 'word of mouth'. It works the same way. Just because you hear that Jane is a stripper doesn't mean she actually is. It's not credible until you ask the person in question.

 

[harleyquinn]

It might not be credible or current or true, but there is nothing stopping employers from not hiring someone based on their page. Your teacher may believe its unethical to do so, but A LOT of employers don't care!! Do you really want to risk it? (Not you personally )

Anyway, I think we've gotten off topic. Maybe we should start a new thread asking if anyone else has heard of or actually does turn people down for their page.

 

[Ariel Mae]

It might not be credible or current or true, but there is nothing stopping employers from not hiring someone based on their page.

According to my teacher, there is something in some law that states that the only credibility is the person and his/her cited references.

Your teacher may believe its unethical to do so, but A LOT of employers don't care!!

Again, it's not about my teacher's views, it's about the law, or at least that's what I've been told. See above.

Do you really want to risk it? (Not you personally )

It's like with word of mouth. If an employer is going to discredit me because of what he/she has heard, I don't want to work with said employer. Same with a website. Unless I've cited it, or referred to it, it's not a 'risk'.

(Just thought I'd throw my view into such)

 

[Ariel Mae]

orljustin isn't the only one not hiring someone because of their Myspace page. I've actually heard of it happening to a lot of people. They even did some stories on the national news about it.

And that is quite absurd.

A lot of employers are looking at potential employee's sites and I don't blame them. If you're dumb enough to put things on your page that an employer would object to, then you shouldn't get the job.

And if the employer is willing to risk the law by going into uncited and unreferenced sources, then it is on their heads, not the potentials.

There were stories about people with very tame things on their sites that were rejected because of them. You have to be careful what you put out into cyberspace when you are job hunting or think you might ever do so. lol

If that's the case, you also have to be careful what you say, where you go, how you eat, how you act...so on, and so forth.

The point is, your teacher might be right, but businesses are still going to do it. Unless we pass a no MySpace discrimination law. lol

It falls under EEOC rules. It's not BFOQ, so, in fact, it falls under discriminatory statutes.

 

[rascalmom]

I am responsible for hiring for our small business and do some volunteer work that puts me in close contact with Human Resource managers in several industries. I also sit on some scholarship committiees. I screen applications for some collegiate groups - let me assure you that they are ALL looking into Myspace and Facebook and use them for hiring and scholarship decisions.

The sites may not reflect all of the FACTS about a person, but they certainly represent their judgement.

 

[Ariel Mae]

I am responsible for hiring for our small business and do some volunteer work that puts me in close contact with Human Resource managers in several industries. I also sit on some scholarship committiees. I screen applications for some collegiate groups - let me assure you that they are ALL looking into Myspace and Facebook and use them for hiring and scholarship decisions.

Just Myspace and Facebook? What about forums, message boards, instant messages? They're all the same thing, just different titles to them.

Unless it's cited or referred to, it's not applicable. If it falls under EEOC, but not under BFOQ, it's discrimination.

The sites may not reflect all of the FACTS about a person, but they certainly represent their judgement.

How do you know that?

How do you know that the person behind the Mickey Mouse image is really what they type? You don't. That's why the only probable citations are those that they provide and those that they speak from their own mouths. You can't judge someone by their face, just like you can't judge a book by it's cover. The same with a website. You cannot judge a person based on how they act online. They may be completely different offline than online. I know I am. I'm more open online, shyer in person. It could be the opposite with other people.

If you don't give them a chance, you're possibly losing good potential. So what if Person A has a drink, now and then, and goes out partying, once a month? Say Person A's Myspace says such, but Person A has a good resume. Person B doesn't have a Myspace, but has a good resume, but in reality, is a drunkard. Are you seriously going to tell me that you'd choose Person B because they don't have some tidbit of information online??

This is not how employers locally, work. They don't discredit based on word of mouth or a website. They discredit based on provides sources, provided knowledge, provided references. Anything else is only questioned, but not lead to discredit.

My friend has a Myspace, filled with stripper like photos.

She works, full time, at Chase Bank.

Wonder how that happened...hmm....oh, wait, I know. The employers didn't judge the person by their website. They judged the person by their personality and references. Hmm...quirky.

 

[Caboosey]

Because it's not a credible source to the person's personality and/or interests. It may say something, but it doesn't mean anything unless they say, "Hey, by the way, what I put on my Myspace is fact."

It's what we're taught in College. One's Myspace, one's websites, does not matter in credibility of being hired.

And how are we to know if what they put on Myspace is fact? One may say they're drinkers, but they may only be saying that for 'points' with friends, sadly.

She's choosing to put the pictures up there, the information, because it's her choice, her profile. And who's to say she didn't do it before she thought of going into the job?

What do you MEAN that the things that they choose to list as interests on their MySpace page are not really their interests? And in the end, does it matter? They are putting that out there - I don't care if it's to look cool, or to fit in with all their friends who love beer pong, or because they really and truely do love beer pong - they have chosen, for whatever reason, to proclaim their love for beer pong in a public forum. If they showed up for a job interview wearing a "Beer Pong Master" t-shirt, would I be right to judge the interviewee based on that? I mean, after all, maybe it's not really their interest, maybe it was the only clean shirt they had to wear, maybe they're doing it to look cool to their peers - but yeah, Beer Pong Master is not working at my camp with my kids.

It is her choice, and her profile. The consequences are also hers to deal with. I'm sure most high school/college students do put up their profiles without thinking about future jobs. But what I am trying to warn my friends and co-workers about is that your profile is going to be viewed by more than your peers - they are being looked at by people who are considering hiring you, and they are going to make judgements based on what you choose to put on your page.

I am not saying that a single picture of underaged drinking, or a single curse word on a MySpace page is going to make me not hire someone. I am being asked to consider if someone would make a good caretaker for young children. I take that very seriously. I also know that it is not good for camp to have high numbers of staff members leave early in the summer - and that the staff members who typically quit cannot handle the rules and structure of a resident camp setting. If I feel that someone is likely to make poor decisions, or will not follow camp rules, or if they seem to have a lot of unnecessary "drama" in their life - whether I get that impression from my interview, their application, or their MySpace page - I'm not going to hire them.

 

[va32h]

If that's the case, you also have to be careful what you say, where you go, how you eat, how you act...so on, and so forth.

Well of course you do.

Why on earth would you think that what you say, where you go and how you act are irrelevant to whether or not a potential employer finds you desirable to hire?!

As long as you do not belong to a protected class, i.e. race, religion, ethnic background, handicap status, age, sexual orientation, I can hire you or not hire you on any criteria I want.

I can decide not to hire anyone who chews gum in the interview, or anyone who was late to the interview, or anyone who wears mismatched socks or has spelling mistakes in their resume or posts naked pictures of themselves on the internet.

 

[Ariel Mae]

What do you MEAN that the things that they choose to list as interests on their MySpace page are not really their interests?

I mean, some people play a part on Myspace, posting things they would never do, for attention or otherwise.

And in the end, does it matter?

Yes. Because it's like word of mouth. Just because you see it/hear it does not make it true.

They are putting that out there - I don't care if it's to look cool, or to fit in with all their friends who love beer pong, or because they really and truely do love beer pong - they have chosen, for whatever reason, to proclaim their love for beer pong in a public forum.

A public forum, a public initiative with private options. That's the key.

If they showed up for a job interview wearing a "Beer Pong Master" t-shirt, would I be right to judge the interviewee based on that?

Quite honestly, no, I don't think you should judge based upon what someone wears or looks like. They may have had a bad day, or didn't get to laundrey day.

I mean, after all, maybe it's not really their interest, maybe it was the only clean shirt they had to wear, maybe they're doing it to look cool to their peers - but yeah, Beer Pong Master is not working at my camp with my kids.

And what if you let a good person pass you by? Is that a risk you're (not you personally) willing to take?

It is her choice, and her profile. The consequences are also hers to deal with. I'm sure most high school/college students do put up their profiles without thinking about future jobs.

Because they shouldn't have to, not according to EEOC standards!

But what I am trying to warn my friends and co-workers about is that your profile is going to be viewed by more than your peers - they are being looked at by people who are considering hiring you, and they are going to make judgements based on what you choose to put on your page.

Judgements based on a cover, and not the chapters within. Pitiful and sad.

I am not saying that a single picture of underaged drinking, or a single curse word on a MySpace page is going to make me not hire someone.

Okay, then.

I am being asked to consider if someone would make a good caretaker for young children.

Okay, again.

I take that very seriously. I also know that it is not good for camp to have high numbers of staff members leave early in the summer - and that the staff members who typically quit cannot handle the rules and structure of a resident camp setting.

I know nothing about camp status, so I cannot comment on such, but I can comment on the rules. If they can't follow the rules, fine, but you don't know until you test.

If I feel that someone is likely to make poor decisions, or will not follow camp rules, or if they seem to have a lot of unnecessary "drama" in their life - whether I get that impression from my interview, their application, or their MySpace page - I'm not going to hire them.

So you're psychic, now? Feelings are often so wrong, it's not even funny. You may feel someone is going to be a negative effect, but what if they're really the best you've got, and you let them pass?

The impressions are meant to come from the people and their citations and references, and nothing else.

EEOC.

 

[Caboosey]

Well of course you do.

Why on earth would you think that what you say, where you go and how you act are irrelevant to whether or not a potential employer finds you desirable to hire?!

Thank you. I was starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills.

 

[Caboosey]

So you're psychic, now? Feelings are often so wrong, it's not even funny. You may feel someone is going to be a negative effect, but what if they're really the best you've got, and you let them pass?

How do you hire anyone, for any job? You interview them, check their references, and decide if they are a good fit for the job. You aren't ever going to know if they will be good at the job or not - you have to make a judgement based on your thoughts and feelings. You make judgements based on the way they come across - in their resume, in their interview, in their appearance...

 

[Maleficent13]

Well of course you do.

Why on earth would you think that what you say, where you go and how you act are irrelevant to whether or not a potential employer finds you desirable to hire?!

As long as you do not belong to a protected class, i.e. race, religion, ethnic background, handicap status, age, sexual orientation, I can hire you or not hire you on any criteria I want.

I can decide not to hire anyone who chews gum in the interview, or anyone who was late to the interview, or anyone who wears mismatched socks or has spelling mistakes in their resume or posts naked pictures of themselves on the internet.

 

[NotUrsula]

Ariel Mae, with all due respect, you are extrapolating your CJ professor's advice into an arena where his expertise does not lie, which any licensed attorney will tell you is a VERY bad idea. This isn't criminal law.

Your impression of what is and is not allowed under the various federal laws within the EEOC's charge is mistaken on several counts. (And by the way, there are six federal laws which the EEOC is charged with enforcing, but none of the laws is *called* the EEOC. The EEOC is an agency, not a law.) I suggest that you brush up on your case law and take a long look at this website before broadcasting your opinions on this matter any further: http://www.eeoc.gov/

PS: If, as it appears in your postings, your CJ professor is a LEO, you should understand that his opinions may not be fully valid outside of civil service settings. Hiring rules that apply for government agencies may be more strict than those for private enterprises in certain areas.