My son's teacher says he lacks poor impulse control

[jodifla]

Lori, I hear what you're saying about labels. Our youngest has autism. Believe me, if I could get rid of that label I would. But, that label currently gets her speech therapy. And a muscle condition got her physical therapy until she no longer needed it. In school, a label can get your son an IEP, which will mandate accomodations if he needs them.

I always try to remember that our daughter has a condition that needs to be labeled for her to get what she needs. Again, good luck and hugs.

But parents should get the correct label, not one that's convenient for the school. Personally, I'd never accept a label I didn't think was accurate just to get therapy from the school. I'd get a lawyer first. (Don't know your situation, and don't mean to imply that's what you did!)

An autism diagnosis shouldn't be necessary for speech therapy. Most districts have language or communication impaired categories.

 

[fakereadhed]

In order to be eligible for an IEP, there must be academic relevance. SO...although several children have medical issues, if there is no academic relevance then an IEP is not appropriate. In these cases, the 504 plan is another option.

Yes, but lots of medical issues may have academic relevance such as needing assistance to make up work, or keeping the child safe and maintaining an optimal learning environment by keeping their medical conditions under control during school. OHI requires a doctor's note documenting the condition and how it impacts the child's education. Just wanted to make sure parents had the information in case they need services for their child that aren't covered by the 504.

 

[Goofyluver]

Yes, but lots of medical issues may have academic relevance such as needing assistance to make up work, or keeping the child safe and maintaining an optimal learning environment by keeping their medical conditions under control during school. OHI requires a doctor's note documenting the condition and how it impacts the child's education. Just wanted to make sure parents had the information in case they need services for their child that aren't covered by the 504.

Absolutely. You are absolutely right. My son's eligibilty is OHI as a matter of fact. I just wanted to make sure that people were aware that if there was no academic relevance...or academics were not impacted by the medical condition, that a 504 may be more appropriate. Here in NM...we place children on a 504 only after they have been tested for sped and do not qualify, but academics may still be an issue.

 

[KirstenB]

But parents should get the correct label, not one that's convenient for the school. Personally, I'd never accept a label I didn't think was accurate just to get therapy from the school. I'd get a lawyer first. (Don't know your situation, and don't mean to imply that's what you did!)

An autism diagnosis shouldn't be necessary for speech therapy. Most districts have language or communication impaired categories.

Jodi, in re-reading my post I think I wasn't clear. Our daughter definitely has some distinct autistic characteristics. I don't disagree with the label. Rather, what I mean is....I can either deny the label, and her autism, or I can accept it, move on, and get her needed services. She doesn't fit the label for classic autism, meaning she doesn't stim (yet), or have perseverative interests. But she is distant, delayed in speech, lacking in empathy, and lagging behind on receptive communication as well. She laughs when I tell her "no". That would have sent her older sister into tears at that age. Zoe doesn't get receptive speech very well.

I absolutely agree with you that parents should get the correct label, and that's where I was also unclear. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess in my own way, I was trying to acknowledge that labels are tough (especially when they fit), but it's important to remember how they can help our kids get services they need.

 

[KirstenB]

Jodi, you're right, speech therapy can be due to any number of things not related to autism. I need to decide sometime this month if I want to enroll Zoe in special ed preschool. She still qualifies for speech through Early Intevention. But that's only 1 hr every 2 weeks. Her speech therapist offered to write her up to qualify for special ed preschool if want want. If we go with the autism diagnosis, she can go to pre-school 5 days a week. I wish we all had the same services available no matter what state we lived in.

This is so hard to try to figure out what is the right decision. It's so hard to try to read into a crystal ball and figure out what's the best choice. I'm in tears right now trying to describe this. If anyone out there has a child who's so VERY different than their other children, you know a little what I'm saying. Our 2 daughters are dead ringers physically. But they are so different (and not in that genius Albert Einstein way either).

 

[autumnl78]

Wow. Ok here is a just a throw in of a few of my 2 cents.
1- the school couns. perhaps a sit down is in order with her and the principal and you. if things dont improve perhaps a out of zone school change request?
2- with a sister as a teacher, a honorary mom as a speech pathologist, and some other teaching friends, ieps stick with you, so save on those as they do become "labels"
3- sometimes "labels" arent as bad as people make them out to be. my nephew has aspbergers. until that diagnosis we were pulling our hair out why isnt he talking, why isnt he jumping, why isnt he this or that? the diagnosis opened loads of doors to help him get the help he needs. it also makes me understand other autistic kids like him better. i can spot an aspbergers kid a mile away and know how hard it is on their parents and try to make sure they know how great their kid is and how great their doing if i can. sometimes "labels" are just an diagnosis that has become to pc.
4- as an add adult, i have to say i never was on meds as a kid. i was all over focus and temper wise unless i had something that held my attention. books, tv, swimming things i like held me for ever. things that bored me (go go gifted and add *sigh*) i didnt like or just didnt care about either made me go in my own zone, caused me to act out, or better yet show off my temper. i didnt go on meds till i was 28. attention and focus wise im a different person. temper control wise too.
5- a new out side counselor who doesnt seem to have such scheduling issues may help alot. if not to find a way to help mellow things out, at least a way to help you all talk about things in a private "switzerland" so no one is the bad guy and everyone gets to see where the other is coming from.
6- i wish you luck, and just know im thinking about you and your son. things will get better, just give them time. trust me. 4 years ago i was begging my nephew to say my name and told him i would never tell him to shush up once he started talking, now trust me there are days id like to tell him that cause the boy goes a mile a minute but a promise is a promise.

 

[Goofyluver]

Kirstin...

As an SLP, my only advice would be that early intervention is key. The younger we get to kiddos, the more intervention they can receive, the better. When I get a kid later in life, habits are often set very deep in stone.

My own son went to a sped pre-school. It was wonderful for him and gave him a jump on services. He is not diagnosed as autistic, but has many of the characteristics.

At a sped preschool, it is a language, fine motor, gross motor filled environment. Even if the child is not receiving OT, PT, or other services, many of these skills are addressed in the classrooms of the preschool.

Autistic children need early intervention. Although I know you referred to the fact that your child does not have this diagnosis at this time. It is just a whole world of difference between getting the child early and getting them later in life.

Just my personal opinion...but I have been doing this for years now. I would recommend taking advantage of any services you have access to.

 

[KirstenB]

Goofy Luver, actually Zoe is diagnosed as high functioning autism. She's had two meetings at UVA Children's Hospital. One with the head of developmental peds, and one with an education specialist. To further confuse the issue, her Early Intervention SLP says she doesn't have autism. She says Zoe shows communicative intent, has a short attention span, has good eye gaze, etc. She says Zoe has visual and auditory processing delays. We need to give her lots of time to respond to our cues. She says that we all (and she says she did it too, when she met Zoe), need to give her MUCH more time to processs what Zoe sees/hears.

There's just something "off" about Zoe compared to our older dd. If someone told me she was mildly retarded, that would make sense. Likewise, high functioning autism sort of makes sense. I haven't been able to find much info on these processing delays. They sort of make sense too. She goes into the "Zoe zone" as I call it to her sister. Andi will try to hug her, and Zoe just pushes her away, sometimes, but not always. I guess it's good that it's hard to pigeon hole her. That means she doesn't have a huge developmental chasm to cross.

Anyway, thanks to all for listening. Sorry to hijack the original thread. OP, obviously, I'm a proponent of accepting the label that gets the child the most services.

 

[KirstenB]

Goofy Luver, I re-read your post. Thanks for encouraging the services. Since Zoe is young (23 mths) and so small for her age, I'm picturing her getting clocked in the head with a toy in the pre-school room! All summer, I've gone back and forth about getting her into Special Ed preschool. As a substitute teacher, in a small county, I know sometimes kids who can be a little violent are in the same class. I always had the "Newsweek or Time Magazine" view of autism, which was the classic, stimming, non eye contact, not in the same place view. I think her SLP is having 2nd thoughts. She called me a couple of days ago to ask if the educator could come out on her next visit, and re-assess Zoe.

Like I said, there's just something off about Zoe. I wish there weren't with all my heart. Bottom line, I dont' care if they call it "purple non-talking disorder" as long as we get Zoe everything she needs. Thanks for your kind input.

 

[Goofyluver]

Goofy Luver, actually Zoe is diagnosed as high functioning autism. She's had two meetings at UVA Children's Hospital. One with the head of developmental peds, and one with an education specialist. To further confuse the issue, her Early Intervention SLP says she doesn't have autism. She says Zoe shows communicative intent, has a short attention span, has good eye gaze, etc. She says Zoe has visual and auditory processing delays. We need to give her lots of time to respond to our cues. She says that we all (and she says she did it too, when she met Zoe), need to give her MUCH more time to processs what Zoe sees/hears.

There's just something "off" about Zoe compared to our older dd. If someone told me she was mildly retarded, that would make sense. Likewise, high functioning autism sort of makes sense. I haven't been able to find much info on these processing delays. They sort of make sense too. She goes into the "Zoe zone" as I call it to her sister. Andi will try to hug her, and Zoe just pushes her away, sometimes, but not always. I guess it's good that it's hard to pigeon hole her. That means she doesn't have a huge developmental chasm to cross.

Anyway, thanks to all for listening. Sorry to hijack the original thread. OP, obviously, I'm a proponent of accepting the label that gets the child the most services.

My goodness. How difficult for you and your family. My son has many of the same issues. Auditory processing difficulties, visual processing difficulties. Although he still has many difficulties in this area, we recently started seeing an SLP in another city who specializes in auditory integration therapy. In addition, he is on OT, and she also focuses on the visual processing.

I wish you good luck! Is she seeing an OT as well?

 

[KirstenB]

Our SLP brought an OT out for the first 2 visits. This is complicated for me. From what I've read about autism, and various therapists, maybe Zoe doesn't need an OT. She has almost no behavioral issues, other than "mouthing" objects. Depending on what day it is (or more to the point, what kind of day Zoe is having), I could make a reasonable argument for or against autism. I've accepted the diagnosis of high functioning autism, so that we insure she gets all the services available. If we're wrong, what has she lost? If we're right, then she's getting what she needs.
Thanks for caring.

 

[Goofyluver]

Our SLP brought an OT out for the first 2 visits. This is complicated for me. From what I've read about autism, and various therapists, maybe Zoe doesn't need an OT. She has almost no behavioral issues, other than "mouthing" objects. Depending on what day it is (or more to the point, what kind of day Zoe is having), I could make a reasonable argument for or against autism. I've accepted the diagnosis of high functioning autism, so that we insure she gets all the services available. If we're wrong, what has she lost? If we're right, then she's getting what she needs.
Thanks for caring.

In a past life, I went to OT school! (I know I know...I couldn't decide on a major!) OTs also work with fine motor, visual perceptual skills, sensory issues (touch, sound sensitivities, etc.) proprioceptive system (or understanding where the body is in space), etc. Our OTs work a lot with the visual perceptual system...and I just thought maybe this could be another avenue.

 

[KirstenB]

Oh Egad! I wouldn't know visual prociperative system if it hit me upside the head! I'll ask her SLP about it next week. The OT pointed out that Zoe didn't have the perseverative behaviours. We have a "sit and spin" from when Andi was young. The OT said it was good that Zoe didn't play with it for more than a minute or 2. Zoe's attention span is SO short. Just this week, she'll finally sit in my lap to look at a picture book.

 

[Goofyluver]

Oh Egad! I wouldn't know visual prociperative system if it hit me upside the head! I'll ask her SLP about it next week. The OT pointed out that Zoe didn't have the perseverative behaviours. We have a "sit and spin" from when Andi was young. The OT said it was good that Zoe didn't play with it for more than a minute or 2. Zoe's attention span is SO short. Just this week, she'll finally sit in my lap to look at a picture book.

I swear I'm not meaning to hijack the thread!

But just have to say:

for Zoe!!!

 

[KirstenB]

Lori x2, please keep us posted. I can tell you're a very caring loving mom, and I hope you can find some answers.

 

[RF536]

Hang in there Lorix2!

I could have very easily written your post, DS6 displays alot of the same symptoms. We just received a diagnosis of ADHD and have started a medicine trial of Concerta. His therapist recommended we read the book "It's Nobodys Fault", the book is out of print and can be hard to find, but I was able to check it out of the library. The chapters on ADHD and some of the examples in the chaper on the medicine debate could have been writen about DS. Until we read this book, we didn't really think the ADHD diagonsis fit, because like your son, he could focus for extended periods of time if something interested him.

The good news is that we have already seen a great improvement in DS and very mild side effects on the Concerta.

 

[Lorix2]

Wow. Ok here is a just a throw in of a few of my 2 cents.
1- the school couns. perhaps a sit down is in order with her and the principal and you. if things dont improve perhaps a out of zone school change request?
2- with a sister as a teacher, a honorary mom as a speech pathologist, and some other teaching friends, ieps stick with you, so save on those as they do become "labels"
3- sometimes "labels" arent as bad as people make them out to be. my nephew has aspbergers. until that diagnosis we were pulling our hair out why isnt he talking, why isnt he jumping, why isnt he this or that? the diagnosis opened loads of doors to help him get the help he needs. it also makes me understand other autistic kids like him better. i can spot an aspbergers kid a mile away and know how hard it is on their parents and try to make sure they know how great their kid is and how great their doing if i can. sometimes "labels" are just an diagnosis that has become to pc.
4- as an add adult, i have to say i never was on meds as a kid. i was all over focus and temper wise unless i had something that held my attention. books, tv, swimming things i like held me for ever. things that bored me (go go gifted and add *sigh*) i didnt like or just didnt care about either made me go in my own zone, caused me to act out, or better yet show off my temper. i didnt go on meds till i was 28. attention and focus wise im a different person. temper control wise too.
5- a new out side counselor who doesnt seem to have such scheduling issues may help alot. if not to find a way to help mellow things out, at least a way to help you all talk about things in a private "switzerland" so no one is the bad guy and everyone gets to see where the other is coming from.
6- i wish you luck, and just know im thinking about you and your son. things will get better, just give them time. trust me. 4 years ago i was begging my nephew to say my name and told him i would never tell him to shush up once he started talking, now trust me there are days id like to tell him that cause the boy goes a mile a minute but a promise is a promise.

Kirsten - thank you, you're words are very encouraging and I'm taking in you're advice as well. I will post when I "get my ducks in a row" so to speak, thank you for you're nice comment.

 

[Lorix2]

Oh Egad! I wouldn't know visual prociperative system if it hit me upside the head! I'll ask her SLP about it next week. The OT pointed out that Zoe didn't have the perseverative behaviours. We have a "sit and spin" from when Andi was young. The OT said it was good that Zoe didn't play with it for more than a minute or 2. Zoe's attention span is SO short. Just this week, she'll finally sit in my lap to look at a picture book.

I wish you the best with Zoe, what a feeling it must have been for her to sit and look through that book with you

 

[Lorix2]

Hang in there Lorix2!

I could have very easily written your post, DS6 displays alot of the same symptoms. We just received a diagnosis of ADHD and have started a medicine trial of Concerta. His therapist recommended we read the book "It's Nobodys Fault", the book is out of print and can be hard to find, but I was able to check it out of the library. The chapters on ADHD and some of the examples in the chaper on the medicine debate could have been writen about DS. Until we read this book, we didn't really think the ADHD diagonsis fit, because like your son, he could focus for extended periods of time if something interested him.

The good news is that we have already seen a great improvement in DS and very mild side effects on the Concerta.

I will certainly look for this at my library. I'm glad to hear that your son has shown improvement and hope wonderful things for him and you're family.

 

[Lorix2]

To every one of you that I haven't replied to personally, I apologize and want you to know that I appreciate every word you write and every experience you share.

I have not contacted his pedi *yet*. The reason being, is that my oldest has gone to spend a week with my IL's. Dylan and I are home alone for the week.

I am really paying more attention to everything. There's been no fighting or bickering for 2 whole days now and I'm able to focus on him alot more, being one on one.

I am keeping a mental journal so to speak. He seeks attention and I have to admit that I do not play with him, by that I mean: bored games, cards, cars, that sort of thing....but we do read, watch shows, do yard work, help him with homework, help him organize...these things we do together. I know I when I show him more, I get more from him. This is not to excuse his rude behavior, but I have take some responsibility for my own behavior. He definitely got a quick temper from me. My DH is his hero, worships the ground he walks on and has a wonderful, loving and affectionate father who cares about both his kids very much.

I want to see how the week goes and be able to see if there's a difference in his behavior. I want to see what he is in control of and what he cannot control.

He spent the entire day with my friend on sunday, playing games, walking her puppy, bathing the puppy, doing puzzles, eating dinner together and she said it was a wonderful day and she could not have had a better day with him and said he was great. He shows great affection toward animals, which thrilled her with her new little fur baby.

We are going away Aug 23-26 and my kids are with this person and my IL's during our absence and I have asked them to keep a little journal if they could of the good, bad and ugly, so when I do move forward I can give different scenarios and what makes him tic, for the lack of a better word.

I'm so overwhelmed with info right now and I need to wait a few weeks before I act so I can give this my full attention.

Thank you, my support group.