My pet peeves

[LWQuestie]

My mother uses a guide dog, and she never uses the larger stall. There's too much room.

In small restaurants, I notice that the large stall is not usually marked with the wheelchair symbol, and it's used as a regular stall. It's foolish in a bathroom with three stalls to let one sit idle all the time.

I see enough parents putting their kids in the regular size stalls with them to know that using the large stall is not necessary.

 

[BuckeyeBelle]

When my DD was 3-4 years old I taught her to stand outside the stall door where I could see her feet at all times. She knew to scream and shout if someone messed with her, so I never felt she was in danger in a busy restroom with plenty of witnesses. If the restroom was not busy, she could go in the empty stall next to me where I could still see her feet. She was not the stand-still type either, but she knew there would be serious consequences if I couldn't see her shoes! We would also talk back and forth so people knew she was being watched. To us, this was a better solution than using the handicap stalls. I also felt that 4 was too old for a normal child to be in with me when I was doing *my* business -- it felt inappropriate. But to each his own on that one. The funny thing about my DD is now that she is 11 I have to actually tell her it's OK if I can't see her shoes! She is so much in the habit of standing outside my stall door that I can't seem to get rid of her - lol!

Now my 6 y.o. son is a different story. His is PDD, autistic, and toilet-crazy. It would be very unsafe for him to be outside my arm's reach in a bathroom because he *would* be running (or crawling) for the toilets with no sense of propriety or his own safety. So I give up a my own privacy and take him in the handicap stall with me with no guilt. (If possible, strapped in his stroller for added security - lol!) I guess this is a very personal issue, which is OK so long as we are all considerate and don't tie up the handi stalls any longer than absolutely necessary.

 

[lisapooh]

BuckeyeBelle, but you are suing the stall for what it is for. For a handicapped safety and convenience. I have no problem with this type of use of the handicapped stall.

What I do have a problem with is parents who do not teach normal children to stay put outside the stall and yell if there is a problem. I don't care how much they claim they are doing it for their child's safety, the truth is they are doing it for their convenience and lack of willingness to take the time to do what parents have done for years, train their child. They are just plain rude and uncaring. I have had the unfortunate experience too many times of ending up soiling myself because of their selfishness. I don't enjoy having to clean myself (inadequetely at that), change clothes, put my soiled clothes in a zip bag and then because I am uncomfortable not being clean, leave and go back to my resort so I can properly clean myself through bathing and again put on clean clothes because the ones I put on in the restroom end up soiled as well and then having to wash the soiled clothes.

Sorry this is my biggest pet peeve even over able bodieds who use handicapped parking spots and my opinion of them is not going to change.

Parents of children with handicaps must do everything they can to keep that child safe and if it means you use the handicapped stall to insure their safety I have no problem with that. When we take these kids as students on field trips we have up to one adult to one kid ratios. (Autistic and PI), 2 to 1 at the max. We can go to the restroom without them because we have others to watch out for their safety. A parent may not have this option es[ecially if you are a single parent.
As to the people who say that the cahnging tables are in the handicapped stall. Not where I've ever been and I've been troughout the east coast. Maybe it's a small town thing. WE pretty much avoid those because most are not easily accessible.

 

[BuckeyeBelle]

Where we live (Ohio), it is very common to find the changing table in the handi stall -- usually those folding wall-mounted "diaper decks." A lot of places which had no changing area before decided the large handi stall was a good place to put one. This is more common in smaller places like restaurants, but I have also encountered it some larger bathrooms in big city malls and museums (The Cincinnati Museum Center for one).

Here's another "twisted" interpretation of ADA requirements: A new high school was recently built in a nearby town. To meet ADA, they installed an automatic door. Where? It is in the back of the cafeteria by the kitchen, so the cooks and delivery people can use it for loading and unloading!!! They do have a student who uses a wheelchair, but the location of the automatic door is so remote he cannot use it for practical purposes. He still needs to get assistance from others to get in and out of the building anywhere close to his locker and classes.

 

[Andrew Bichard]

LisaPooh, BuckeyeBelle,

I think it is a matter of scale. In a small restaurant say, it is OK to have just one stall, and equip it for everything, Handicap, baby changing and so on. Where you have a whole line of stalls to cater for a large population it is not. In the former case it is less that a disabled person would want to use the stall at the same time as a mother. In the latter case, such as at Disney, the chances are high because there are so many people using scooters and wheelchairs. You might also consider that a single disabled stall is not enough. In an ideal world, where money and space are unlimited you would make ALL stalls handicap standard. The best handicap stall I came across (I wish I could remember where!!), was huge. Space to do a figure of eight in a scooter and two toilet bowls so you had a choice of front, left AND right transfers!

Here in the UK, it is quite common to provide a men’s room, a ladies room, and a separate unisex handicap/baby changing room, similar to the ‘family’ rooms at Disney. I have also come across diaper changing tables in men’s rooms (in the common circulation area – not a stall) – Atlanta airport comes to mind.

I have also come across handicap stalls that have been retro-fitted with diaper changing tables to make them dual purpose. I find that too often, an enormous trash can is put into the stall too for diapers, making it difficult to manoeuvre my chair. I also hate those jumbo size paper dispensers that Disney uses (sometimes two of them). In the smaller handicap stalls they are often fixed just above the grab rails, just at my shoulder level sitting in my wheelchair, making it even more difficult to get in. One last peeve is the stall laid out such that it impossible to reach the flush handle from my chair, or the automatic flush with no manual flush lever at all. I have lost count of the occasions when I have sat in my chair waving my hand back and forth in front of the magic eye to no effect. And don’t forget the automatic tap that sprays water over your arm as you line up to the toilet bowl in your chair.

I can also relate to BuckeyeBelle’s story about access into schools. Just two months back I went to a Parents’ dinner in the canteen of a local school. The only ramped access was through the kitchen The chef wouldn’t let me use that entrance because of health regulations – I couldn’t pass through the kitchen while they were preparing food apparently. I had to be lifted up a step in my electric wheelchair. There was even a handicap stall in the lobby, though how you were supposed to get to it when they were cooking, I don’t know!

Andrew

 

[PatsMom]

This weekend I tried to notice the diaper changingg place. Here in the northeast (NH) over one weekend in popular tourist destinations I noticed: McDonald's in Ossipee NH - diaper changing in handicapped stall. Other two public places (restaurant for lunch and local mall) were fine. The Outlet Village however (built in the last two years) had the diaper changing in a handicapped stall. So, 50% were in the stall. Not exactly statistically representative, but certainly indicative of the fact that the diaper changing places are inthe handicapped stalls fairly often.

My daughter is 10. I still haven't found a regular stall she would not fit in in with me in a pinch. I know it's different for those with more children, but if you only have one, they can fit. With that said, please don't be too quick to judge in any situation. My osteo isn't getting any better - some days those grab bars and the higher 'throne" really help me. But i walk out under my own power so far. Should I feel guilty because I still could manage in a regular stall even if it is more difficult and painful? This debate is giving me a new perspectiv and I may do so in the future. But until I put all this together, I'll continue to use the handi stall when I'm hurting. If you need to use it too, I'm sorry. Maybe the answer is more accessible stalls! By the way, if you block me in with an emergency, I'll certainly understand. All I ask is the routine politeness I'd want from anyone - i.e., sorry, but I had an emergency. Just like those toilet training.

By the way, my personal opinion is that if your child is too old to be in the stall with you, they are old enough to wait outside, particularly at a crowded place like Disney.
All of this is, of course, just my opinion. I hope I haven't offended anyone - this debate just made me think about some things.

 

[Wheelsie]

Ive noticed that if the baby changing table isnt IN the handi stall...its BLOCKING IT!!!! (and the lock NEVER works to close it so I can get by of course!!! LOL)

I have noticed something in newer stalls I think is a FAB idea (has anyone else noticed) they have a thing attached to the wall near the toilie so you can stap your lil one in so you can use bothe your hands when getting on and off the toilie (course since I have no kids I can only imagine this is what its meant for...since I do use both hands to transfer to the toilie from my chair and back if I do need to leave my chair)

Also when I was recently (read a month or so ago) at a store we have here called GORDMANS (looking for any Gordman execs that may be listening) they were MORE than accessible in the restroom.... there was TWO handi stall on the back wall with a small wall between em...

Now I dont know about anyone else...but Ive NEVER seen anything like this unless its a concert venue or something similar (none of our local movie theaters even have that and they are almost all new)

 

[SueM in MN]

I have also run across quite a few handicapped stalls with the diaper deck in it. There is one in almost every McDonald's restroom that I have been in. Particularly in the McD's that are old enough to have been built before the diaper decks were common. They look for a space large enough for one of those and too often, the only place is the handicapped stall. I've also seen them in some of the older malls and restaurants (built in the 70s and early 80s) in our area.
I have also seen those little baby sitter things in bathroom stalls that Wheelsie mentioned. Quite an invention!

 

[welovedis]

What I do have a problem with is parents who do not teach normal children to stay put outside the stall and yell if there is a problem. I don't care how much they claim they are doing it for their child's safety, the truth is they are doing it for their convenience and lack of willingness to take the time to do what parents have done for years, train their child. They are just plain rude and uncaring.

Again, I guess this could apply lots of ways, but what if the child has an "unseen" problem/issue? We are not supposed to judge a book by its cover, so how can you tell why a parent decides to keep their child with them?

I'm certainly in agreement that a handicapped stall should not be used by a capable person unless it is an emergency ( I define an emergency as something like diarrhea or something that cannot be controlled & there is no other stall available).

But because I choose to keep my DS with me in a regular stall doesn't mean I lack parenting skills. He knows what to do if something happens to compromise his safety. I just prefer to keep him with me because society has changed & I don't need to make an example out of him so others can feel I am bringing my child up properly. Also--I am not rude, uncaring, lacking in willingness to train my "normal" child or any of the other stereotypes you are applying to parents who choose to do this. My DS is a wonderful kid, always commented upon because of his terrific behavior, good manners & great speech, reading & writing skills (at age 4 1/2). I must be doing something right!

 

[lisapooh]

Sue,
Don't do Mc Donalds. Around here their handicapped access is terrible. Handicapped spots in front but the ramp is around the back. I'll stick to Burger King, Miami Subs and Pollo Tropicale

 

[MikeP]

While I would never consider trying to run in front of a person in a chair to take the hadi stall, I have used it when no others were available. I have never thought about what you said about "needing the stall now" so to speak. I am not a rude person, as a matter of fact I think I am one of the more considerate type people. I for one will not use the handicapped stall anymore. I can imagine the discomfort you mentioned in your post when you don't make it in time. The lady you mentioned who told her kids to rush to the handicaped stall is just a miserable "insert your own explitive here". Thanks for the enlightenment.

 

[Daisimae]

Here a few of my thoughts:

"Btw mom's are taking boys up to around 10 to the ladies room now on the premise that it is too dangerous to allow them to go to the bathroom by themselves. Methinks these women are paranoid."

1. You might think that people who did this are paranoid, but we just had a case here yesterday where a 7 yo was almost molested by an adult in a McDonalds bathroom. His mother was standing right outside the door waiting for him. The would-be-attacker got away, but police are searching for him right now.

2. I remember babysitting for one of my little cousins four years ago. I had to use a public bathroom in a hotel and I took her into the handicapped stall with me. She was/is a perfectly behaved child, (or else she would not have been with me). I could have told her to stand quietly outside the stall and wait, but, I was not going to take the even the slightest chance of going back to my cousin without her 2 1/2 yo. There were/are just too many things that could happen and I would be er, well, incapacited, so I might now be able to run out of the stall if I heard anything unusual. It was a new experience for me since I don't have children and am not used to having anyone "watching" me in the ladies room, but, it did make me feel safer.

I do agree that runnning ahead of a person with an impairment or demanding that they leave a stall so someone can get in with their children is very wrong and extremely rude. I would never do that.

With all the things that are happening today, I think there needs to be a new category of bathroom created. "KIDS", where parents of any sex, can take children of any sex, to do what ever needs to be done and still keep an eye on them.

Just My Two Cents,

Daisimae ;-)

 

[TrlyScrumptious]

Even though I understand completely my responsibility as a parent to be training my son about what to do in emergencies or dangerous situations, it is still my preference to PREVENT them rather than to take reports of them in progress (ie: "Yell if something happens.). So...in the stall with me he goes!

 

[lisapooh]

Fine, I never said not to take him into the stall with you. I don't care if you choose to be in a crowded stall. That is your choice. What I did say is to leave the handicapped stall for the handicapped who really have need for it and cannot always wait so things are nice and comfortable for you.

 

[LindaDVC]

On a previous post I gave my reasons for using the handicapped stall.
Yesterday I was in one at my local health club using the restroom on the upper level that has no elevator but a handicapped stall.

When I went to leave the door would not open it was jammed!!
Most folks use the facilities in the locker rooms so I had to crawl out under the door.
Glad I was able to do this and reported it to the desk that someone needed to fix it!

In the last three days Dan took an ambulance to the hospital and was admitted for a few days. While their someone cracked my windshield and the one next to me. I got a nail in my tire and when I went to repair it realized how worn all the tires were so ended up with 4 new ones ( to add to the 3 van ones we bought last week), our home plumbing has problems, the above bathroom incident, and a few other things have happened! What a few days.

Taking it all in stride since we feel blessed that Dan is home and after a scary few hours in the Emergency room he is feeling fine. Hopefully life will be back to "NORMAL" soon!

Linda

 

[lisapooh]

Some pixie Dust for you Linda. Sounds like you had a rough week. Glad Dan is doing ok.

 

[SueM in MN]

Ohhhh! You dod sound like you need some pixie dust. Luckily, I have some extra.

 

[LindaDVC]

Right after I Wrote about our week -- my son yells down from the attic
"hey Mom we have a squirrel up here!"

It really has been quite a week! We have called both animal services here in town and neither has returned our call! Both advertise 24 hrs! I have dealt with all the other problems but I do not like animals in my house!!!!

 

[SueM in MN]

I think a squirrel is better than bats.
Good luck!

 

[lisapooh]

The law in Florida is that the handicapped person must be getting out of the car for you to use the handicapped spot. If the handicapped person is going to wait in the car then the car needs to be parked in a regular spot.