My notes on the DVC focus group I went to (kinda long and probably boring, but...)

[KNWVIKING]

"Even with the consistent rule that pool hopping is no longer available at SAB, people still don't get it."

And your point is what ? That a constant "NO" is just as ineffectual as "call the resort before you come" policy. So basically there is no such thing as a consistant or inconsistant policy that everybody is going to understand all the time.

Well, to all those who've never been to SAB but would someday like to, just remember the DVC sales pitch "and if you buy at BCV, YOU get to use SAB".

You're right. There is nothing unfair about the whole situation, I concede. But why should I care anyway, I get to swim at SAB every Oct/Nov. I'll post pictures from time to time so others will know what they're missing.

 

[DeeP]

Wow!!!!!!! What a thread!!!!
I have not seen this much debate and even at times a heated argument, on this board in a long time!
It is very obvious that there are several people that feel very strongly about this. One of the parts I do not understand is the "unfair" part. How can it possibly be thought of as unfair????
First of all, we all knew from the beginning that any and all priviledges could be changed or eliminated including pool hopping. Secondly all DVC members have had and still have an opportunity to buy a contract at BCV if the 11 month booking window for use of the pool if that is important to us.
And to say SAB is not crowded for the major part of the year is simply not true. Yes there are the rare times when SAB is not crowded but those times are definitely in the minority. I have been at SAB many, many times both as a paying guest at YC/BC and when staying at BWV using my DVC pts prior to SAB pool hopping being eliminated. I have seen SAB at times not packed and at a comfortable crowding level during off times of the year but I have only ever seen SAB empty or with only 20-30 people when it was not the best pool weather and the vast majority of times I have been to SAB it is quite full to the point that you hunt for a chair. SAB has had a problem with crowding for years now, well before BCV even opened and with the additional 300(?) villas at BCV it has certainly added to the crowding. I think even if BCV had never been built pool hopping at SAB would still have been eliminated eventually for DVC members--the pool can barely handle the resort guests at YC/BC and BCV for the majority of the year now, let alone have pool hoppers. I was/am very sorry to see DVC pool hopping eliminated from SAB believe me, I loved it, but that is just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.
I just stayed at YC 2 weeks ago and by 11:00 AM there was not a pool chair to be had at the main pool. I will admit there were people using the old "towel on the chair" trick for saving some extra chairs, but on a whole the place was packed. And this is with NO pool hopping!
I agree with captainmidnight, for the majority of the year SAB is crowded enough that the no pool hopping rule is necessary and for the little amount of time each year when it is not too crowded, changing the rules back and forth is much more trouble and will create possibly more upset guests than it is worth.
The part that I really can not see as unfair about this whole thing is, as a DVC member you can make reservations to stay at BCV. Yes, you do not have the 11 month window but I am sure 7 mo reservations will be attainable at BCV. Matter of fact, just the other day I made reservations at BCV for this Sept which is a little over 3 months away and it was no problem. I could also have booked BCV for my May trip that I just came back from but instead chose BWV, these reservations were also booked well under the 7 month window. For my Sept trip I booked BCV solely for the fact that I will have a lot of down time during this trip and I want to use SAB, so I booked this resort. Simple!
Bottom line the SAB overcrowding was and has been a problem for years now. Did Disney use this as a sales technique for selling BCV, I wouldn't doubt it and if so more power to them. It worked and that is considered good marketing. They were able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone--they now have a better control on the problem of overcrowding at SAB and they had a valuable marketing tool to use that generated very swift sales. This technique almost worked for me, I was ready to add on and I love SAB so I was in the process of getting info for a resale at BCV when the new BWV pts were released. I ended up going with BWV just for the fact that it is easier with all my pts at one resort.
I completely understand everyone's disappointment in losing SAB as a pool hopping choice--I myself was not happy but it was inevitable--the pool is just not large enough to accomendate everyone. But the great thing about being a DVC member is if you want to go to BCV and enjoy the fantastic SAB you can! Just belly up to the bar and pay the higher points and put up with the smaller rooms and the long hallways and you'll be good to go!! LOL!

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING

You're right. There is nothing unfair about the whole situation, I concede.

Well done.

 

[Nanajo1]

Is this over now?

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by Nanajo1
Is this over now?

Perhaps.

 

[PKS44]

When the nonsense stops- it will be over--or just close the thread...

I have never talked about rights or fairness- I don't know why Doc keeps bringing up Disney's rights..who ever questioned anything about rights???? This is about perception/reality and feelings---I have talked about how I feel based on what I know about SAB pool crowding. You seem to be trying to tell me that I don't have a right to feel a certain way or that what I have seen did not reflect reality...and other baloney...It is possible that the SAB pool could be not crowded at the busiest times during the off season and then somehow become crowded at less busy times..that is possible-- but that is not a logical assumption that one would jump to--in fact, it is counter intuitive. If it is not crowded in the least during those busiest times of the slow season I think it is a safe bet that it is even less crowded the rest of the off season. (if you don't know the off season check the rates...it's when Disney has all defined for us)..but let's hear from someone who had a crowded time during the slow season...

DeeP tells us that he has NEVER seen SAB not crowded-no comment on what season Deep is there but that pretty much eliminates any expertise Deep might have about SAB when it is not crowded---because despite DeeP's never having seen it- Viking and others have reported their experiences...showing tht DeeP is missing out on a whole SAB experience that many have had, have seen and can comment on--- I have been there on numerous occasions in the past few years- twice over President's Day weekend stays, and on a Mid May stay, an October golf tourney weekend stay and over MLK weekend stay...all amongst the busiest times weekends and weeks of the off season and NOT CROWDED--and for the Captain--not crowded even with poolhoppers because some of those stays were back when poolhopping was allowed...not even close to crowded...

and I absolutely agree that poolhopping should not be allowed to the point of crowding or close to crowding...I don't know where the Cap'n got that whole line of argument about how YC/BC/BCV guests having to put up with crowding by poolhoppers...poolhopping should not occur when there is any danger of even coming close to crowding...on this we agree completely-and I assume my Nordic friend from NJ would as well --- that has never been the issue--

if poolhopping were going on and you did not know it-in other words it had NO IMPACT on your ability to find a chair, or spot or go down the slide with any wait..would you care if people were hopping?

If you say yes it still bothers you- then your real motive-exclusion- is revealed...if people poolhop and it makes no difference to you or anyone else-- as I contend it would not during LONG periods of time--who is harmed??? (and that brings up some more nonsense we have had to read here--who ever said that the demand fluctuates so much hour to hour during the off season to the point that it stresses capacity in the least? We are not talking about hour to hour changes -we are talking months at a time when nobody at SAB would be inconvenienced in the least-including the staff not having to police things all the time..) Like they had done for years...

Bottom line- CAN WE ALL AGREE THAT:

1) THE SAB POOL IS COOL!

2) THAT THE BC/YC/BCV GUESTS SHOULD HAVE A GUARANTEE THAT NON YC/BC/BCV GUESTS NEVER HAVE ANY IMPACT ON YC/BC/BCV GUESTS ENJOYMENT OF SAB

3)THAT WE HAVE DIFFERENT IMPRESSIONS OF HOW TRULY AND CONSISTENTLY THE SAB EXPERIENCE IS AFFECTED OR LIKELY TO BE AFFECTED BY POOLHOPPING AT CERTAIN TIMES OF THE YEAR

4)THAT WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHOSE IMPRESSION IS CLOSEST TO THE TRUTH

5) THAT ALL OF THIS IS STILL JUST SILLINESS OVER A POOL THAT AS GREAT AS IT IS --IS STILL JUST A POOL, COME ON...

6) THAT DVC STILL RULES!

WOW--LOOK AT THE PASSION DISPLAYED ON THIS THREAD! OVER A TIMESHARE!

 

[CaptainMidnight]

if poolhopping were going on and you did not know it-in other words it had NO IMPACT on your ability to find a chair, or spot or go down the slide with any wait..would you care if people were hopping?

The bottom line it that SAB is often crowded and it does impact people's ability to find chairs and enjoy the pool. If it weren't crowded accept for maybe a couple of off season months, it wouldn't matter. It's not about accusations of exclusion motives, that kind of silliness is unecessary, it's about the pool being too busy for resort guests to enjoy too often, there are many post on this forum describing this (and I'm not going to dig them up for you, do your own search). Steps needed to be taken, long drawn out threads or not.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Currently, the DVC website tells us when PH is closed at each resort. It also tells us to call in advance to be certain that even though PH is availible at X resort, maybe that day or time the pool is at or near capacity.When we check in at our DVC resort,they gives us paperwork that states those rules again. Very good rule,makes sense, nobody disagrees. Why can't the same rules apply for SAB. I wouldn't mind if they had it closed to PH nine months out of the year. I wouldn't care if every time I called during the other three months I got an honest "no I'm sorry the pool is full" answer. Not being able to PH to a pool because it IS full hasn't- or at least shouldn't- been an issue with anyone I've seen post on these board.

But when it is NOT full/nearfull I don't like the option being taken away. I don't trust their justification for SAB the same way I don't buy their rational for AKL. If AKL doesn't want us to PH there, just post in the member book " AKL has chosen not to allow PH at it's resort. DVC has no control over their decision. We're sorry but please enjoy the other resort". If Y&B doesn't want me at SAB, tell me " As of July 15th Y&B has chosen to remove SAB from PH........." . DVD and Y&B are seperate entities, but they are still Disney and the corporate line appears to be to not just CYA but but everybody else's ***at the same time. If the truth makes AKL look bad,it makes Disney look bad, so tell everybody we're just trying to protect the animals. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Sorry Doc, seems I just can't stay out of this one.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Currently, the DVC website tells us when PH is closed at each resort. It also tells us to call in advance to be certain that even though PH is availible at X resort, maybe that day or time the pool is at or near capacity.When we check in at our DVC resort,they gives us paperwork that states those rules again. Very good rule,makes sense, nobody disagrees. Why can't the same rules apply for SAB. I wouldn't mind if they had it closed to PH nine months out of the year. I wouldn't care if every time I called during the other three months I got an honest "no I'm sorry the pool is full" answer. Not being able to PH to a pool because it IS full hasn't- or at least shouldn't- been an issue with anyone I've seen post on these board.

But when it is NOT full/nearfull I don't like the option being taken away. I don't trust their justification for SAB the same way I don't buy their rational for AKL. If AKL doesn't want us to PH there, just post in the member book " AKL has chosen not to allow PH at it's resort. DVC has no control over their decision. We're sorry but please enjoy the other resort". If Y&B doesn't want me at SAB, tell me " As of July 15th Y&B has chosen to remove SAB from PH........." . DVD and Y&B are seperate entities, but they are still Disney and the corporate line appears to be to not just CYA but but everybody else's ***at the same time. If the truth makes AKL look bad,it makes Disney look bad, so tell everybody we're just trying to protect the animals. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Sorry Doc, seems I just can't stay out of this one.

So, if I understand your post correctly, it's not the loss of the pool hopping priveledge with SAB or pixie dust or any of that other stuff, it is that they didn't write in the member book that " AKL has chosen not to allow PH at it's resort. DVC has no control over their decision. We're sorry but please enjoy the other resort". If Y&B doesn't want me at SAB, tell me " As of July 15th Y&B has chosen to remove SAB from PH........." ???

They didn't package their reason in their publications in a manner meeting your approval? Good grief... that's not a very strong reason.

My hope is that SSR is a wonderful pool worthy of lots of great pool hopping, adn helps compensate for the loss some home resort members feel and express in not being able to use SAB unless using thier points at BCV. Perhaps another option might be to connect with a BCV guest through these boards and be invited to join them at SAB as thier guest when you both are at WDW during the same time. It's a long shot, and way too much hassle, but there ya go....

 

[KNWVIKING]

"They didn't package their reason in their publications in a manner meeting your approval? Good grief... that's not a very strong reason."


Wow. So many ways to respond but I'll just stick to one that won't get deleted.

" package their reason " : what a clever way to say LIE.

" Good grief... that's not a very strong reason" : I must be shallow. I get upset when I'm lied to.

"or pixie dust or any of that other stuff" : Disney appears to have substituted pixie dust for fairy tales. I won't say what the other "stuff" is, I just hope I don't step in it by mistake.

 

[rriley25]

During a recent stay at the WL, we observed CM's checking for room keys due to pool crowding. One poor CM had to listen to several minutes of excuses and epithets from a pool crasher. I don't know where this person (and his rather large family) belonged, but it wan't there. A second CM (this time a large man) approached the situation to aid the first CM. I thought it was going to come to blows. Finally, the crasher and his family did leave. Cussing all the way. This was a very bad scene for all. Even for the on-lookers. Do we want more of this, or is it easier for Disney to make the rule permanent and clear at the pool most likely to have these types of events occur. My 3 year-old daughter was very upset. I wouldn't want that to happen ever again.

Bob Riley

 

[SwampFox]

" package their reason " : what a clever way to say LIE.
" Good grief... that's not a very strong reason" : I must be shallow. I get upset when I'm lied to.

Do you have any evidence at all to document this, or are just taking exaggerated liberties to support your opinion?

Exactly what did DVC publish that you claim is a lie?

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by SwampFox
Do you have any evidence at all to document this, or are just taking exaggerated liberties to support your opinion?

Exactly what did DVC publish that you claim is a lie?

Good question, well stated.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I don't have the book handy so the wording is incorrect, but back when AKL was opened the decision to not allow PH was made by someone- don't know or care by who. I don't care that PH wasn't allowed. What bothers me is that the reason given was to protect the animals. Protect them from what ? 2000 resort guests coming & going & swimming is okay, but I'm a threat to them. Did DVC create the lie-probably not. Did they get on-board and endorse it by publishing it in our literature- yes.

Of course,if you truely believe the animals out on the savana were endangered by my being at the swimming pool, then please accept my apology and ignore my posts.

Oh,almost forgot the future classic "package their reason" : "And because YOU ASKED FOR IT, we're ending EE and giving you Charactor Caravan." That was also posted on the DVC website.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by rriley25
During a recent stay at the WL, we observed CM's checking for room keys due to pool crowding. One poor CM had to listen to several minutes of excuses and epithets from a pool crasher. I don't know where this person (and his rather large family) belonged, but it wan't there. A second CM (this time a large man) approached the situation to aid the first CM. I thought it was going to come to blows. Finally, the crasher and his family did leave. Cussing all the way. This was a very bad scene for all. Even for the on-lookers. Do we want more of this, or is it easier for Disney to make the rule permanent and clear at the pool most likely to have these types of events occur. My 3 year-old daughter was very upset. I wouldn't want that to happen ever again.

Bob Riley

This scenario hit's the nail on the head, unpleasant for all. While this was probably a local, these scenes will cause the demise of pool hopping, IMHO. DVC members have been known to kick up a little fuss when caught pool hopping during restricted times as well. Sorry to hear about the damper on your vacation.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
.... Protect them from what ? 2000 resort guests coming & going & swimming is okay, but I'm a threat to them. Did DVC create the lie-probably not. Did they get on-board and endorse it by publishing it in our literature- yes.

Of course,if you truely believe the animals out on the savana were endangered by my being at the swimming pool, then please accept my apology and ignore my posts....

As far as AKL, I could see the potential for endangering the animals if they were subjected to reading your posts on this subject whilie you were at teh pool.....

 

[KNWVIKING]

Was PH restricted to DVC members at the time ? If not I don't see the connection to PH.


While I'm sure it was an ugly site to witness, it has nothing to do with PH and shouldn't determine PH's future fate. "Illegal" use of the pool by locals or non DVC resort guests will happen regardless of the status of PH and for our PH perk to end because of something that has nothing to do with us is just plain wrong.

Of course, if this was a DVC member using the pool during a restricted time, then it will just make it easier for that resort to decide PH is more trouble then its worth & we'll lose another pool.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"As far as AKL, I could see the potential for endangering the animals if they were subjected to reading your posts on this subject whilie you were at teh pool....."

I'm glad we can still have fun with this thread, otherwise I'm outta here, but what would you classify the officially published reason for no PH at AKL ? If you don't believe it to be truth, then you must believe it to be a lie.

 

[SwampFox]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
I don't have the book handy so the wording is incorrect, but back when AKL was opened the decision to not allow PH was made by someone- don't know or care by who. I don't care that PH wasn't allowed. What bothers me is that the reason given was to protect the animals. Protect them from what ? 2000 resort guests coming & going & swimming is okay, but I'm a threat to them. Did DVC create the lie-probably not. Did they get on-board and endorse it by publishing it in our literature- yes.

Of course,if you truely believe the animals out on the savana were endangered by my being at the swimming pool, then please accept my apology and ignore my posts.

Oh,almost forgot the future classic "package their reason" : "And because YOU ASKED FOR IT, we're ending EE and giving you Charactor Caravan." That was also posted on the DVC website.

OK, I guess I need to be a little more explicit. Since you are the one stating that DVC lied (you even used capital letters), can't you provide a little more than your personal paraphrase from memory to substantiate your claim? Thus far, you've just rephrased your accusation without providing any evidence that DVC ever published anything to support your own claim.

While I'm sure your memory is impeccable, I can't remember or find any such publication from DVC. Since you've chosen to bring up the Character Caravan (NOT a DVC program), please provide the evidence (I'm sure you have) that Disney has no data showing that guests wanted more opportunity to meet the characters and preferred that contact more than EE. I'd suspect that Disney can actually support the thought that guests wanted more character contact- even instead of EE, but you obviously have access to other information not generally available to all. (...or have you again taken some liberties to support your personal opinion??)

Got facts??

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Got facts??

Ouch....